Karlos Williams making a comeback

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Phil The Thrill said:

It’s exactly like I called it...speculation.  You have no idea but are presenting your opinions as facts.  The same thing that @GunnerBill accused me of.  
 

Atleast you didn’t try to argue the term “not getting a sniff” with semantics.  I’ll give you credit for that!

 

No it isn't. If you think the two are equally likely you are being foolish. 

 

And in any event... I understood the Gilmore decision. You don't pay man corners big cap dollars to play in McDermott's cover 3 zone based scheme. If Whaley did take that decision (he didn't) it would be to his credit. 

[Phil The Thrill]

5 minutes ago, Clemfield2622 said:

not new. i just don't post nearly as much here as i did on BBMB.

 

we've done the Whaley stuff ad nauseum. Sure it's fun to revisit, i just think this is a good chance to recall just what a gigantic damn turd sandwich Karlos Williams was. I don't want that to pass. 

I don’t take any of this stuff personally.  It’s fun to come in here and debate.  If we all had the same opinion, this place would be like One Bills Live

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

No it isn't. If you think the two are equally likely you are being foolish. 

 

And in any event... I understood the Gilmore decision. You don't pay man corners big cap dollars to play in McDermott's cover 3 zone based scheme. If Whaley did take that decision (he didn't) it would be to his credit. 

Are we name calling now?  Very nice.

 

Maybe we can debate the meaning of “getting a sniff” some more?

2 minutes ago, chris heff said:

Correct me if I’m wrong (like I needed to write that), but didn’t Polian get into a beef with Ralph’s daughter, which I think included some name calling. That will get yo fired every time. Butler, who for some reason is fondly remembered, put the Bills in cap hell. He did the opposite of what the Patriots have done for twenty years, kept and overpaid players past their prime.

I don’t know - I think that in business you find a way to work it out with people who have been successful.  Ralph seemingly had a conflict with any coach (outside of Levy) or GM that has had success in Buffalo.  Not an isolated incident.

[Big Turk]

Edited April 9, 2020 by matter2003

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said:

I don’t take any of this stuff personally.  It’s fun to come in here and debate.  If we all had the same opinion, this place would be like One Bills Live

Are we name calling now?  Very nice.

 

Maybe we can debate the meaning of “getting a sniff” some more?

I don’t know - I think that in business you find a way to work it out with people who have been successful.  Ralph seemingly had a conflict with any coach (outside of Levy) or GM that has had success in Buffalo.  Not an isolated incident.

 

I am not name calling. Maybe you should use words that convey the meaning you intend. 

[Royale with Cheese]

I'm just chiming in just to say foolish is an adjective and not a noun.  

[chris heff]

26 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said:

I think that in business you find a way to work it out with people who have been successful.  Ralph seemingly had a conflict with any coach (outside of Levy) or GM that has had success in Buffalo.  Not an isolated incident.

I’ve built a couple of significantly different businesses. One of them was a restaurant, a high end restaurant in NYC. I had a very good chef that I had gone to a lot of trouble to recruit. One day he decided to call my wife a f-ING B word. He was fired and out the door before he could finish the sentence. A difference of opinion you can work out, but once there was name calling it was over.

Edited April 9, 2020 by chris heff

[YoloinOhio]

49 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

I think its silly that he says he is one of the best running backs in the game right now. Because he isn’t actually in the game. He’s as much in the game as I am. 

I think there is something seriously wrong with him. Thought that for a long time. 

[Charles Romes]

What a waste. He had all the talent to have a nice career.  

[Phil The Thrill]

20 minutes ago, chris heff said:

I’ve built a couple of significantly different businesses. One of them was a restaurant, a high end restaurant in NYC. I had a very good chef that I had gone to a lot of trouble to recruit. One day he decided to call my wife a f-ING B word. He was fired and out the door before he could finish the sentence. A difference of opinion you can work out, but once there was name calling it was over.

Maybe... I just don’t think you can give Ralph a pass for making a for making one of many poor decisions with coaches and GM’s.  It’s not a comparable situation.  IMO firing Polian hurt the franchise 

25 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

I'm just chiming in just to say foolish is an adjective and not a noun.  

It’s an insult which people usually fling when they’ve been exposed in a debate.  I’m good with that 

[DrDawkinstein]

31 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said:

Are we name calling now?  Very nice.

 

 

In fairness, you and FC have been name calling since the previous thread. What do you think dismissing entire arguments by calling people "Whaley Apologists" is?

 

And no one has called you names here.

 

But back to the discussion...

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

Doug Whaley was a textbook example of what the old Management book “ The Peter Principle” made as one of its central tenants:  a manager will rise through the ranks till they reach their level of incompetence. Whaley was a solid talent scout and that allowed him to rise to a position at which he was no longer truly competent. 

[chris heff]

3 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said:

Maybe... I just don’t think you can give Ralph a pass for making a for making one of many poor decisions with coaches and GM’s.  It’s not a comparable situation.  IMO firing Polian hurt the franchise 

It’s an insult which people usually fling when they’ve been exposed in a debate.  I’m good with that 

Phil, in the same post you are arguing both sides. You say Ralph should have ignored what I recall was a vile insult hurled at his daughter and then you chastise Royal for name calling.

[Phil The Thrill]

Just now, chris heff said:

Phil, in the same post you are arguing both sides. You say Ralph should have ignored what I recall was a vile insult hurled at his daughter and then you chastise Royal for name calling.

LOL these are not the same things.  If Gunner was a good GM I wouldn’t fire him for calling me foolish. 
 

You don’t succeed in business making those decisions as evidenced by a 17 year long drought

8 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

In fairness, you and FC have been name calling since the previous thread. What do you think dismissing entire arguments by calling people "Whaley Apologists" is?

 

And no one has called you names here.

 

But back to the discussion...

There’s a clear difference...but back to the discussion like you said

[Doc]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

You got it wrong. The Pegulas spent 2014-2016 propping Whaley up as a good GM. Because he was employed by them. And they started sowing misinformation about the Hughes trade and the 2013 draft etc.

 

Yes, they retained him for continuity sake.  He didn't get the job done (and I'm sure there was stuff behind the scenes we don't know about) and then they moved on.  And were ultimately proven right.

[DrDawkinstein]

4 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said:

LOL these are not the same things.  If Gunner was a good GM I wouldn’t fire him for calling me foolish. 
 

 

Polian called Ralph's daughter a F$%&ING C U Next Tuesday. To a group of people. That's a little worse than "foolish".

 

I semi agree with you in that Ralph's daughter shouldnt have been around and acting as a scout to begin with. Dont let your kids be hired into lower positions if you are going to be sensitive to how they are treated. But at the point, it was too late.

[Phil The Thrill]

Just now, Doc said:

 

Yes, they retained him for continuity sake.  He didn't get the job done (and I'm sure there was stuff behind the scenes we don't know about) and then they moved on.  And were ultimately proven right.

In the “process” (pun intended) they ended up eating a lot of cash on his contract.

 

I will say that a huge mistake Terry made was the timing of this firing.  It’s my theory that he was by an old-time NFL consultant that you don’t fire a GM until the draft to protect your intel.  Not hiring Beane until May kind of messed up their plan to rebuild and could have cost them Watson or Mahomes.  
 

But it looks like things might work out this way too

5 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Polian called Ralph's daughter a F$%&ING C U Next Tuesday. To a group of people. That's a little worse than "foolish".

 

I semi agree with you in that Ralph's daughter shouldnt have been around and acting as a scout to begin with. Dont let your kids be hired into lower positions if you are going to be sensitive to how they are treated. But at the point, it was too late.

I’m not giving Ralph a pass for firing Polian over name calling...sorry

[chris heff]

8 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said:

LOL these are not the same things.  If Gunner was a good GM I wouldn’t fire him for calling me foolish. 
 

You don’t succeed in business making those decisions as evidenced by a 17 year long drought

There’s a clear difference...but back to the discussion like you said

When Polian called Ralph’s daughter a name he was left with no choice, the same as I was left with no choice when that chef called my wife a name. Ralph’s mistake was what he did next,  one he committed often, he hired someone that he was comfortable with. In the example of my restaurant I hired new chef who turned out to be better.

7 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Polian called Ralph's daughter a F$%&ING C U Next Tuesday. To a group of people. That's a little worse than "foolish".

 

I semi agree with you in that Ralph's daughter shouldnt have been around and acting as a scout to begin with. Dont let your kids be hired into lower positions if you are going to be sensitive to how they are treated. But at the point, it was too late.

If nepotism were eliminated from family owned business a whole lot more people would be unemployed. The irony is that Polian took exception to the nepotism and then years later hired his son.

[Phil The Thrill]

5 minutes ago, chris heff said:

When Polian called Ralph’s daughter a name he was left with no choice, the same as I was left with no choice when that chef called my wife a name. Ralph’s mistake was what he did next,  one he committed often, he hired someone that he was comfortable with. In the example of my restaurant I hired new chef who turned out to be better.

Well everyone has a different philosophy.  I think firing someone over name calling is bad business.

 

But to your other point - you are correct.  Outside of Donahoe, Ralph insisted on hiring people that he was familiar with - which was a disastrous result

[Doc]

8 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said:

In the “process” (pun intended) they ended up eating a lot of cash on his contract.

 

I will say that a huge mistake Terry made was the timing of this firing.  It’s my theory that he was by an old-time NFL consultant that you don’t fire a GM until the draft to protect your intel.  Not hiring Beane until May kind of messed up their plan to rebuild and could have cost them Watson or Mahomes.  
 

But it looks like things might work out this way too

 

Sometimes you have to eat a bad contract.  The money is pocket change for them.  But it led to a big improvement in the team and the results of the past 3 years speak for themselves.

 

It would be interesting to know if Whaley liked/would have picked either Mahomes or Watson. 

[YoloinOhio]

Just now, Doc said:

 

Sometimes you have to eat a bad contract.  The money is pocket change for them.  But it led to a big improvement in the team and the results of the past 3 years speak for themselves.

 

It would be interesting to know if Whaley liked/would have picked either Mahomes or Watson. 

Thought you were taking that elsewhere for a minute