2 QBs that are former #1 overall picks and the Patriots don’t have a QB. Hmm.

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

9 hours ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

He doesn’t have any cap room to sign either QB. 

They can just trade Thuney and/or make some cuts 

[Doc]

25 minutes ago, Chemical said:

They can just trade Thuney and/or make some cuts 

 

Cutting or trading the few players they have available to create cap space creates other problems.  Like creating holes that need to be filled on an already depleted offense or extending a 30-year old LB.

Edited April 9, 2020 by Doc

[clearwater cadet]

f##k the pats!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Meatloaf63]

2 hours ago, Tipster19 said:

If Belichick gets either QB then I would suspect him to go after a TE or 2. If it were Winston I wonder if ole Billy Boy would go after OJ Howard. 2 other names that wouldn’t surprise me would be David Njoku and Evan Engram. This Covid 19 is slowing everything down but as soon as there is a let up just watch Belichick make some moves.

What move is he going to make? He can’t even sign his draft picks with what he has , he’s going to have to renegotiate several contracts just to get a qb then he’s going to get a couple of tight ends?

46 minutes ago, IgotBILLStopay said:

NE can pretty easily create cap room. Hightower, Cannon, Sanu, Butler all have low deadcaps. Oh, and Thuney is a trade candidate - Since they didnt pay Brady 25 mill - they can very quickly move to the top 3 in terms of cap space available. And it is not that there are readymade starting jobs available for Cam and Jameis. They could do a lot worse than sign up with Belichick for a huge NE discount.

 

nice post OP

But Belichick is the most adaptible guy out there - the guy has yoyoed between a 3-4 and a 4-3 effortlessly. I dont see Jameis and Cam style being different from Brady's as a constraint.

 

 

The only thing giving me pause about the Pats' chances this season is that I have a sneaky suspicion, they might Tank for Trevor. We will know for sure  if Belichick trades this year's draft capital / Thuney for next year's draft capital.

They have already lost a couple linebackers and now they are gonna cut more? I hope they do ruin the defense, their offense will only be average at best this year no matter who plays Qb...

[IgotBILLStopay]

40 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Except they won't have nearly the same weapons on offense that they did when they were putting up yards and points.

They didnt really put up points and yards last season. Their 12-4 record was primarily due to to their stellar defense. I am not sure Sanu / Cannon added much last season. They were injured more often than not. I am pretty sure they are going to be cut. And they have already lined up Thuney's replacement in Hjalte Froholdt. These 3 alone will clear 26 mill + in cap room.

9 minutes ago, Meatloaf63 said:

What move is he going to make? He can’t even sign his draft picks with what he has , he’s going to have to renegotiate several contracts just to get a qb then he’s going to get a couple of tight ends?

They have already lost a couple linebackers and now they are gonna cut more? I hope they do ruin the defense, their offense will only be average at best this year no matter who plays Qb...

 

On Offense, they will not be worse than 2019 because of the cuts - see post above - Sanu / Cannon didnt contribute much and Thuney replacement is already available. 

 

They wont cut the guys on defense - Hightower and Gilmore will likely be extended - though Gilmore might decline the extension since cap is slated to rise.

Edited April 9, 2020 by IgotBILLStopay

[hondo in seattle]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

Anything is possible.  I just don't see him as a good NFL QB and they still have deficiencies at WR.

 

I think under Belichick Stiddy will put up average NFL numbers.  And I think Belichick and McDaniels will be able to manufacture points.   

 

While I am hearing good things about Stidham out of New England, mostly I have a lot of confidence in Belichick and his staff.  

 

 

[machine gun kelly]

I could see a trade for Dalton, rather than a guy who has serious injury concerns and no way to dismay those concerns, and another who throws as many pics as TD’s.  Dalton is a system QB, and they could always rework his deal to be more palatable and pushed out. Teams can always kick the can down the road on cap if they want, but will hamstring them down the road.  Does that really matter to BB though who will retire once he brings his team to the playoffs the next two years.  Not rooting for this but he doesn't care like our team about building for long term success as he’s already done that thanks in no small part to TB12.   Not a big fan of TB12, but I respect his abilities.  

[NoSaint]

10 hours ago, MJS said:

Belichick wants a guy to come in and run the system. The system is short to intermediate precise throws and taking care of the football. Don't take risks, just take what the defense gives you. Don't try to do too much.

 

Does that sound anything like Newton or Winston? They are two square pegs that do not fit into the round hole of NE's offense.

that was the Brady system lately but even so they evolved a lot. I wouldn’t be shocked by a change of talent levels and skill sets justified it

 

10 hours ago, aristocrat said:

the pats have zero cap space. you can always make some space but these guys would need to come cheap

trade joe Thuney, give the qb a decent signing bonus and low year 1 salary. Could add the qb and sign draft picks with 1 move if they want.

[The Dean]

11 hours ago, H2o said:

My money is on the Pats ending up with Eason or Fromm. 

 

I'd love for Tony Eason to play QB again for the Pats*.

 

?

[Tipster19]

4 hours ago, BobChalmers said:

 

They're black, obviously.  

 

Yeah - just a quick check-in for folks who don't know - Jameis Winston is NOT a running QB - NEVER has been.  Not at FSU, not now.  He's also not nearly as big as Cam.

 

Now I suppose if the OP meant "they have similar abilities" in that they both currently play as if they had DIS-abilities, he may be on to something.

 

I wouldn't sign either for free.  Maybe, just maybe Winston on the off-chance his Lasik helps with his INTs.

 

Cam is done.  He's broken and he's crazy - he should find a home near his WR spirit-animal AB and toss footballs with him.

 

 

I beg to differ. They are both strong armed QBs that can throw the ball a country mile. Furthermore they both are mobile, only 1 rushes for yardage. Don’t tell me that Winston is a pocket passer, the guy can more than move, he just chooses to stay behind the LOS.

[Doc]

13 hours ago, IgotBILLStopay said:

They didnt really put up points and yards last season. Their 12-4 record was primarily due to to their stellar defense. I am not sure Sanu / Cannon added much last season. They were injured more often than not. I am pretty sure they are going to be cut. And they have already lined up Thuney's replacement in Hjalte Froholdt. These 3 alone will clear 26 mill + in cap room.

 

On Offense, they will not be worse than 2019 because of the cuts - see post above - Sanu / Cannon didnt contribute much and Thuney replacement is already available. 

 

They wont cut the guys on defense - Hightower and Gilmore will likely be extended - though Gilmore might decline the extension since cap is slated to rise.

 

I was referring to what Newton and Winston would have, or more precisely not have in Cheaterland compared to their heydays, if one of them signed with the Cheaters.  And you're right that they didn't put up a lot of yards.  They were 15th in the league.

 

But let me see if I have this straight.  The Cheaters plan on replacing a HOF QB with a guy who got 15 snaps all last season and didn't look good in them, trading an All-Pro OG and replacing him with a guy who didn't even play a snap last year and won't be getting coached by Scarnecchia anymore (Thuney started as a rookie, FTR), replacing Cannon who actually started 15 games with who knows who (while only saving $1M), and dumping Sanu who didn't do a whole lot because he was traded mid-season but would have been their 2nd-leading WR if he'd been there all year.  They'll also have the hardest schedule in the NFL, which includes 4 games against the Jets and Dols.   And an abbreviated off/pre-season.  And they will not be worse than 2019? 

 

12 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

I think under Belichick Stiddy will put up average NFL numbers.  And I think Belichick and McDaniels will be able to manufacture points.   

 

While I am hearing good things about Stidham out of New England, mostly I have a lot of confidence in Belichick and his staff. 

 

I live in New England.  I watched them go through the 5 stages on grief after Brady left.  They're now trying to convince themselves that Stidham will replace Brady.  Again, like I said, I guess anything is possible.

Edited April 9, 2020 by Doc

[DrDawkinstein]

13 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

I agree with Winston but disagree with Newton- he will never be great again because he can not run like he used to run and therefore is only a mediocre QB.

 

Sure, but out of Newton, Winston, Hoyer, and Stidham... Newton is the best they could do.

[GunnerBill]

8 hours ago, Doc said:

 

I was referring to what Newton and Winston would have, or more precisely not have in Cheaterland compared to their heydays, if one of them signed with the Cheaters.  And you're right that they didn't put up a lot of yards.  They were 15th in the league.

 

But let me see if I have this straight.  The Cheaters plan on replacing a HOF QB with a guy who got 15 snaps all last season and didn't look good in them, trading an All-Pro OG and replacing him with a guy who didn't even play a snap last year and won't be getting coached by Scarnecchia anymore (Thuney started as a rookie, FTR), replacing Cannon who actually started 15 games with who knows who (while only saving $1M), and dumping Sanu who didn't do a whole lot because he was traded mid-season but would have been their 2nd-leading WR if he'd been there all year.  They'll also have the hardest schedule in the NFL, which includes 4 games against the Jets and Dols.  And they will not be worse than 2019? 

 

I think they will have to cut Sanu. Isn't ideal for them because they don't have a lot at receiver as you say but they will try and bleed the last drops out of Edelman and hope that Henry steps up and starts looking like a 1st round pick. Then they will take a guy from this deep class in the mid rounds and they have the other 2nd year guy Myers who actually played reasonably well last year (though is a role play guy not a starter). Not ideal but they will have to make do. 

 

On the offensive line they have 2 excellent guards, a very good center and two good tackles. They can probably afford to lose one off that line but more than that feels a risk - even more so if they decide Sitdham is going to start. The easiest choice us extend Thuney in a way that halves his 2020 cap hit or trade him. Any QB but especially Stidham will need protection. They do still have two very good receiving backs which will help but the cupboard is still bare at tight end. 

 

Cap room wise they need to make about 14m or so of space by my reckoning in order to sign a draft class and give them room to trade for Dalton and give him a renegotiated deal that guarantees him some money (he has precisely $0 guarantees at the moment) extends him a couple of years and lowers his cap him this year to between $6-8million. That is doable for them because this is a one year crunch. Their long term cap outlook is pretty healthy so by extending Gilmore for example and kicking the can on his deal they are not just storing up more trouble for the future. 

 

Even if they do all that (which would be my plan) I still think they are worse team than in 2019. But I think they would be a team capable of being in that 9 win range and in the wildcard hunt. As currently constituted I struggle to see them winning more than 6. Even with Belichick's brilliance. 

[Orlando Buffalo]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Sure, but out of Newton, Winston, Hoyer, and Stidham... Newton is the best they could do.

I had not thought of it in that context- but in that case you are right, and by a pretty big margin.

[Doc]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

I think they will have to cut Sanu. Isn't ideal for them because they don't have a lot at receiver as you say but they will try and bleed the last drops out of Edelman and hope that Henry steps up and starts looking like a 1st round pick. Then they will take a guy from this deep class in the mid rounds and they have the other 2nd year guy Myers who actually played reasonably well last year (though is a role play guy not a starter). Not ideal but they will have to make do. 

 

On the offensive line they have 2 excellent guards, a very good center and two good tackles. They can probably afford to lose one off that line but more than that feels a risk - even more so if they decide Sitdham is going to start. The easiest choice us extend Thuney in a way that halves his 2020 cap hit or trade him. Any QB but especially Stidham will need protection. They do still have two very good receiving backs which will help but the cupboard is still bare at tight end. 

 

Cap room wise they need to make about 14m or so of space by my reckoning in order to sign a draft class and give them room to trade for Dalton and give him a renegotiated deal that guarantees him some money (he has precisely $0 guarantees at the moment) extends him a couple of years and lowers his cap him this year to between $6-8million. That is doable for them because this is a one year crunch. Their long term cap outlook is pretty healthy so by extending Gilmore for example and kicking the can on his deal they are not just storing up more trouble for the future. 

 

Even if they do all that (which would be my plan) I still think they are worse team than in 2019. But I think they would be a team capable of being in that 9 win range and in the wildcard hunt. As currently constituted I struggle to see them winning more than 6. Even with Belichick's brilliance. 

 

I agree with most everything you said.  I just don't know how anyone can look at that offense, even after just losing Brady never mind the other stuff, and say it will be no worse than last year.  Unless I misunderstood what IgotBILLStopay was trying to say.

[hondo in seattle]

9 hours ago, Doc said:

 

I was referring to what Newton and Winston would have, or more precisely not have in Cheaterland compared to their heydays, if one of them signed with the Cheaters.  And you're right that they didn't put up a lot of yards.  They were 15th in the league.

 

But let me see if I have this straight.  The Cheaters plan on replacing a HOF QB with a guy who got 15 snaps all last season and didn't look good in them, trading an All-Pro OG and replacing him with a guy who didn't even play a snap last year and won't be getting coached by Scarnecchia anymore (Thuney started as a rookie, FTR), replacing Cannon who actually started 15 games with who knows who (while only saving $1M), and dumping Sanu who didn't do a whole lot because he was traded mid-season but would have been their 2nd-leading WR if he'd been there all year.  They'll also have the hardest schedule in the NFL, which includes 4 games against the Jets and Dols.   And an abbreviated off/pre-season.  And they will not be worse than 2019? 

 

 

I live in New England.  I watched them go through the 5 stages on grief after Brady left.  They're now trying to convince themselves that Stidham will replace Brady.  Again, like I said, I guess anything is possible.

 

So what is the Pats plan?   There is no way Belichick doesn't have one.  Brady's departure wasn't unexpected.  

 

Needless to say, you don't replace a guy like Brady.  There's going to be a drop off.   I think Belichick's plan is to win with defense.   The Pats had the best D in the league last year.  I'm guessing Belichick believes he can manufacture enough points with Stiddy on offense this year to outscore opponents more often than not.  

 

What's the alternative?  I have a hard time believing Belichick's chief plan is to hope he drafts another superstar signal caller (unlikely given their draft position) or to hope they'll sign a franchise QB in free agency (who?  with what money?).  Hope is not a plan.   I think the evidence suggests that Stiddy is Plan A  - at least for now - and, if so, Belichick must see something in him that may not be evident to the rest of us.  

[Doc]

1 hour ago, hondo in seattle said:

So what is the Pats plan?   There is no way Belichick doesn't have one.  Brady's departure wasn't unexpected.  

 

Needless to say, you don't replace a guy like Brady.  There's going to be a drop off.   I think Belichick's plan is to win with defense.   The Pats had the best D in the league last year.  I'm guessing Belichick believes he can manufacture enough points with Stiddy on offense this year to outscore opponents more often than not.  

 

What's the alternative?  I have a hard time believing Belichick's chief plan is to hope he drafts another superstar signal caller (unlikely given their draft position) or to hope they'll sign a franchise QB in free agency (who?  with what money?).  Hope is not a plan.   I think the evidence suggests that Stiddy is Plan A  - at least for now - and, if so, Belichick must see something in him that may not be evident to the rest of us.  

 

What's the plan now?  It's hoping Stidham is close to Brady was last year, when the Cheaters were 7th in points scored, playing one of the easiest schedules in the NFL.  But even as you admitted, there's going to be a (big) dropoff.  The defense, which got exposed as the season wore on, will have to be even better.

[Gugny]

On ‎4‎/‎8‎/‎2020 at 11:11 AM, Tipster19 said:

Don’t get comfortable, here comes Belichick! Nothing is worse than false confidence/security. If anyone thinks that Belichick is just gonna roll over than they got another thing coming. Newton and Winston, similar abilities and both available.  I’m not buying the Stidham talk, expect Belichick to reinvent that offense. Nobody loves veterans that want to prove something more than Belichick.

 

He just got rid of a veteran who wants to prove something, @BringBackFergy!!!

 

 

Edited April 9, 2020 by Gugny

[formerlyofCtown]

On 4/8/2020 at 11:11 AM, Tipster19 said:

Don’t get comfortable, here comes Belichick! Nothing is worse than false confidence/security. If anyone thinks that Belichick is just gonna roll over than they got another thing coming. Newton and Winston, similar abilities and both available.  I’m not buying the Stidham talk, expect Belichick to reinvent that offense. Nobody loves veterans that want to prove something more than Belichick.

We would have swept them with Brady.  I would love our D against those 2 turnover machines.

[BillsFan2313]

On 4/8/2020 at 11:22 AM, MJS said:

Belichick wants a guy to come in and run the system. The system is short to intermediate precise throws and taking care of the football. Don't take risks, just take what the defense gives you. Don't try to do too much.

 

Does that sound anything like Newton or Winston? They are two square pegs that do not fit into the round hole of NE's offense.

 

Trade for Peterman?