DuckyBoys Posted April 7, 2020 Posted April 7, 2020 I think it makes a dramatic difference Quickly we forget the board was frothing to have Duke Williams in late in the season That is how bad the 2nd outside wr production was. I'm certain the efficiency of the offense would have been much greater
Doc Posted April 7, 2020 Posted April 7, 2020 16 minutes ago, DuckyBoys said: I think it makes a dramatic difference Quickly we forget the board was frothing to have Duke Williams in late in the season That is how bad the 2nd outside wr production was. I'm certain the efficiency of the offense would have been much greater So would most rational people.
Mat68 Posted April 8, 2020 Posted April 8, 2020 9 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: Right...Mr. President. None of that matters, obviously. Only what was transpired in that game. A top D doesn't get a special prize for keeping a mediocre Offense under 20. Look, if these teams were trading leads the whole game, or if the D shut out Texans in the second half after giving up 19 in the first half, you may have a point and it would all be on the Offense. But that's not what happened. They blew a sizable lead in the latter phase of the game. That really is the definition of a collapse. For the most part playoff games are close. Settling for fgs and not getting Tds decide most playoff games. There are about 5 plays on offense that costef them the game. The drop by Williams, and Brown not getting his feet down in bounds come to mind.
JA082390 Posted April 8, 2020 Posted April 8, 2020 Josh Allen with Diggs in 2020: 40 total Touchdowns 30+ Passing TDs 10+ Rushing TDs
BillsCelticsAngelsBama Posted April 8, 2020 Posted April 8, 2020 didn't read any comments so the first thing to come my mind is if Diggs was on the Bills in 2019, He would have asked to be traded before the season ends.
NoSaint Posted April 8, 2020 Posted April 8, 2020 On 4/6/2020 at 7:28 PM, Shaw66 said: Bills defense held them to one point fewer than they were scoring on average for the last seven games of the season, and 3 points less than they were scoring in the last 6 games of the season. Bills defense held them to 40 yards fewer than they were averaging. And three points they gave up came on a short field created by an Allen fumble. Defense certainly could have played better. It was not a collapse. It's not a collapse when, with the game on the line, on two of Houston's last three possessions, the Bills held them to two three and odds and stopped a fourth down short yardage play. That's losing, but it's not a collapse. yea- I get pointing a finger at them but thought they played well enough to win while the offense did not have a good game. a strong start and weak finish I suppose is by definition a collapse but think they played a much better game than the offense or given credit for 1
BillsCelticsAngelsBama Posted April 8, 2020 Posted April 8, 2020 On 4/6/2020 at 5:07 PM, Doc said: It's not just me WEO. Most people would say the Bills win that game with Diggs in the lineup. Now if you had said Sanders... Majority isn't always right. Weak. Though you may be right. My conclusion is that Diggs would have been so pi$$ed at his QB's running when he was open or having inaccurate passes thrown his way that there may have been chaos
NoSaint Posted April 8, 2020 Posted April 8, 2020 On 4/6/2020 at 7:07 PM, Doc said: It's not just me WEO. Most people would say the Bills win that game with Diggs in the lineup. Now if you had said Sanders... their odds definitely go up but it’s not a gimme 1
Shaw66 Posted April 8, 2020 Author Posted April 8, 2020 7 hours ago, DuckyBoys said: I think it makes a dramatic difference Quickly we forget the board was frothing to have Duke Williams in late in the season That is how bad the 2nd outside wr production was. I'm certain the efficiency of the offense would have been much greater This is maybe the best way to understand the impact of Diggs. I was one of those people. Put Williams in, because maybe he'll do SOMETHING. Diggs solves that problem. If Williams sees the field in 2020, it will be because he got better than what we saw in 2019.
Doc Posted April 8, 2020 Posted April 8, 2020 51 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: This is maybe the best way to understand the impact of Diggs. I was one of those people. Put Williams in, because maybe he'll do SOMETHING. Diggs solves that problem. If Williams sees the field in 2020, it will be because he got better than what we saw in 2019. Replace Williams with Diggs and the game is totally different.
Augie Posted April 8, 2020 Posted April 8, 2020 13 minutes ago, Doc said: Replace Williams with Diggs and the game is totally different. We will never know what “coulda been”, I’ll just look forward to what will be!
Mr. WEO Posted April 8, 2020 Posted April 8, 2020 12 hours ago, Mat68 said: For the most part playoff games are close. Settling for fgs and not getting Tds decide most playoff games. There are about 5 plays on offense that costef them the game. The drop by Williams, and Brown not getting his feet down in bounds come to mind.
Mr. WEO Posted April 8, 2020 Posted April 8, 2020 11 hours ago, Doc said: Replace Williams with Diggs and the game is totally different. Why? Because Diggs doesn't drop passes? Because Diggs is a big time playoff WR? He had 4 catches and 76 yards in 2 games.
HappyDays Posted April 8, 2020 Posted April 8, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Why? Because Diggs doesn't drop passes? Because Diggs is a top 10 receiver and Williams is a CFL castoff. I don't know if you're just being stubborn but anyone who watched the game knows a real #1 WR on the field would have made a big difference. You think Diggs fails to tap his toe at the 5 yard line? That one play single handedly could have changed the outcome. Edited April 8, 2020 by HappyDays 1
Shaw66 Posted April 8, 2020 Author Posted April 8, 2020 7 minutes ago, HappyDays said: Because Diggs is a top 10 receiver and Williams is a CFL castoff. I don't know if you're just being stubborn but anyone who watched the game knows a real #1 WR on the field would have made a big difference. You think Diggs fails to tap his toe at the 5 yard line? That one play single handedly could have changed the outcome. You know, Happy, I've been shooting my mouth off in this thread, all based on what the stats might suggest, and I haven't really been thinking what it mean to have a legitimate #1 receiver. What it means is things like the toe tap. It means catching the ball behind him on a 12-yard crossing pattern. It means beating the DB to the best position to make a play on the ball. It means catching the ball in space because his last move left the defender in the dirt, or because the corner was forced to give him a cushion. There are a lot plays, I'd say two to five a game, that you'll predictably get from Diggs that the Bills would only occasionally get from the receivers they had last season. As an aside, I think you're unfair to Duke. He wasn't a CFL castoff. He led the league; he was a CFL graduate, not a drop out. Still, that doesn't change the fact that he wasn't an impact player in 2019. 2
Mr. WEO Posted April 8, 2020 Posted April 8, 2020 1 minute ago, HappyDays said: Because Diggs is a top 10 receiver and Williams is a CFL castoff. I don't know if you're just being stubborn but anyone who watched the game knows a real #1 WR on the field would have made a big difference. You think Diggs fails to tap his toe at the 5 yard line? That one play single handedly could have changed the outcome. Diggs has never been a top 10 receiver. Even without Thielen most of the season, he didn't crack the top 15 in yards or the top 40 in receptions. But sure, more good players is always a good thing. But to say the putting Diggs in that game results in a win without a doubt is fantasy. Were you watching the Vikings playoffs games saying, "man, if only we had that guy against the Texans"? He was a nonfactor in the Saints game (had a tantrum) and against the 49ers he contributed to a 10 point output Offense. Nobody was watching those games and thinking that. 1
Doc Posted April 8, 2020 Posted April 8, 2020 33 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Diggs has never been a top 10 receiver. Even without Thielen most of the season, he didn't crack the top 15 in yards or the top 40 in receptions. But sure, more good players is always a good thing. But to say the putting Diggs in that game results in a win without a doubt is fantasy. Were you watching the Vikings playoffs games saying, "man, if only we had that guy against the Texans"? He was a nonfactor in the Saints game (had a tantrum) and against the 49ers he contributed to a 10 point output Offense. Nobody was watching those games and thinking that. What are you talking about? Thielen played in 10 games last year. That's not "missing most of the season." And he had just 418 yards, which works out to 668 yards for the season. Amazing. Prior to Digg's arrival he was an UDFA who was helped by Diggs' presence and even he admits he'll miss him. And Diggs was top-10 in yards/game (he's a WR you see and he didn't play the final game of the season). The only thing that's fantasy is clinging to the laughable notion that Diggs wouldn't have made any difference at all in that game, given the poor WR play. But we know you have to believe that because you think Sanders was the Bills' top target (another laughable notion) and Diggs is some scrub they had to settle for. And hey, the 2017 Vikings-Saints game is calling... 1
Mr. WEO Posted April 8, 2020 Posted April 8, 2020 7 minutes ago, Doc said: What are you talking about? Thielen played in 10 games last year. That's not "missing most of the season." And he had just 418 yards, which works out to 668 yards for the season. Amazing. Prior to Digg's arrival he was an UDFA who was helped by Diggs' presence and even he admits he'll miss him. And Diggs was top-10 in yards/game (he's a WR you see and he didn't play the final game of the season). The only thing that's fantasy is clinging to the laughable notion that Diggs wouldn't have made any difference at all in that game, given the poor WR play. But we know you have to believe that because you think Sanders was the Bills' top target (another laughable notion) and Diggs is some scrub they had to settle for. And hey, the 2017 Vikings-Saints game is calling... LOL ok doc...in "yards per game" he was 11th. In the games where he didn't;'t have to complete with Thielen for targets, he had 2 games over 80 yards. Thielen by the way, in the 2 previous seasons, was an ACTAUL top 10 WR in yards and catches. Again, the bolded part I didn't say. But keep repeating and you'll get that big bad straw man! Were you really watching the Vikings playoffs and saying that isn the Bills had Diggs they absolutely without a doubt win the Texans game? No, you were not. 2017 Vikings-Saints game is calling....and 2019 Vikings-Saint game answers and says: "what do you want?".
Shaw66 Posted April 8, 2020 Author Posted April 8, 2020 1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said: Diggs has never been a top 10 receiver. I think you're wrong about that. Over his five seasons in the league, he's clearly one of the ten best. 365 catches for 4263 yards. 70+ catches, 800+ yards a season. Clearly better are Michael Thomas, Julio Jones, Hopkins. Those three guys have consistently put up 1200-1400 yard seasons. More or less a statistical push are Keenan Allen, Amari Cooper, Mike Evans and OBJ. Over five years they aren't much different. Definitely top 10. 2
NoSaint Posted April 8, 2020 Posted April 8, 2020 1 hour ago, HappyDays said: Because Diggs is a top 10 receiver and Williams is a CFL castoff. I don't know if you're just being stubborn but anyone who watched the game knows a real #1 WR on the field would have made a big difference. You think Diggs fails to tap his toe at the 5 yard line? That one play single handedly could have changed the outcome. while odds are he performs better you just don’t know. Is Diggs double covered and josh forces it in for an INT instead of an incompletion? im 100% on board we are a better team with him. I’m not full steam on picking plays to flip and saying “see, that simple” essentially for why we would definitely win with him.
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