If the Bills had had Diggs in 2019

[Mr. WEO]

30 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Huh?  Better game management would have won the game but another stud WR would surely have helped win the game despite the game management.

 

They didn't lose that game for lack of "another stud WR".   You're free to imagine so.  The Texans only needed 1.  The Vikings had 2 and couldn't score against a tough (like the Bills?) 49ers D.

 

They were way up with only 6 minutes in the 3rd.  Then they gave up 8 to just about get to the 4thQ.   What do they do?  5 passes in a row, ending with sack/fumble.  Next possession a 2 pass 3 and out.

 

Daboll got exposed in that game. He is the weakest link, Diggs or no.

 

 

[Doc]

8 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

They didn't lose that game for lack of "another stud WR".   You're free to imagine so.  The Texans only needed 1.  The Vikings had 2 and couldn't score against a tough (like the Bills?) 49ers D.

 

They were way up with only 6 minutes in the 3rd.  Then they gave up 8 to just about get to the 4thQ.   What do they do?  5 passes in a row, ending with sack/fumble.  Next possession a 2 pass 3 and out.

 

Daboll got exposed in that game. He is the weakest link, Diggs or no.

 

Even though I agree Daboll got exposed, you're saying that a player like Diggs wouldn't have even led to one more point in offense?  That's patently absurd.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

4 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I agree with you, on both points. 

 

This notion that the defense collapsed is ridiculous.    Texans had the 12th best offense in the league in yards, 14th best in points, over 23 a game.   The defense held the Texans to 19 in regulation.   That's hardly a collapse.   Moreover, the defense got an absolutely essential three and out before the Bills drove to tie the game, and the defense also got an excellent stop on the Texans' first possession in overtime. 

 

That was hardly a defensive collapse.   An offense like Houston's, witha quarterback like Watson, is going to score some points some of the time.   

Up 16-0 with 6 minutes to go in the 3rd quarter, defense then gave up 19 straight points in a little more than 16 minutes.  That is a collapse.  

Yes the offense needs to get better.  Yes one block by Knox in OT and they win the game.  An explosive WR will help, but defense wins in the playoffs.  They need to get younger at edge/pass rusher and Edmunds needs to continue to get better.  

[Mr. WEO]

19 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Even though I agree Daboll got exposed, you're saying that a player like Diggs wouldn't have even led to one more point in offense?  That's patently absurd.

 

The Vikings scored 10 points.  Bills scored almost twice that.

 

Assuming one more WR would have been the difference between winning and losing that game is not "patently absurd"?  Come on, doc.  

[LABILLBACKER]

We would've beaten Houston. That much I can easily predict. 

[Mr. WEO]

5 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I agree with you, on both points. 

 

This notion that the defense collapsed is ridiculous.    Texans had the 12th best offense in the league in yards, 14th best in points, over 23 a game.   The defense held the Texans to 19 in regulation.   That's hardly a collapse.   Moreover, the defense got an absolutely essential three and out before the Bills drove to tie the game, and the defense also got an excellent stop on the Texans' first possession in overtime. 

 

That was hardly a defensive collapse.   An offense like Houston's, witha quarterback like Watson, is going to score some points some of the time.   

 

A top 3 D spotted a 16 point lead with 21 minutes to play against a non top 10 Offense giving up 19 is a total collapse---you call it, charitably, "held to 19 in regulation".  

 

 

 

 

 

1 minute ago, LABILLBACKER said:

We would've beaten Houston. That much I can easily predict. 

 

 

Anyone can "easily predict" anything...

[Shaw66]

3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

A top 3 D spotted a 16 point lead with 21 minutes to play against a non top 10 Offense giving up 19 is a total collapse---you call it, charitably, "held to 19 in regulation".  

It's a 60--minute game.   Sure it matters when you give up points, but it matters more in terms of psychology than anything else, but that doesn't make it a collapse.   They held the Texans below their offensive average; that is not a collapse.  What happened against the Eagles was a collapse.  

 

[Doc]

22 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

The Vikings scored 10 points.  Bills scored almost twice that.

 

Assuming one more WR would have been the difference between winning and losing that game is not "patently absurd"?  Come on, doc.  

 

What do the Vikings have to do with anything (and do you think the Vikings even score 10 points without Diggs)?  I'm talking about the Bills-Texans game where just 1 more point would have won the game for the Bills in regulation.  Claiming Diggs wouldn't have even provided that is patently absurd and you know it.

[papazoid]

would we still have Ed Oliver ?... would have lost our first round pick

[Mr. WEO]

45 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

It's a 60--minute game.   Sure it matters when you give up points, but it matters more in terms of psychology than anything else, but that doesn't make it a collapse.   They held the Texans below their offensive average; that is not a collapse.  What happened against the Eagles was a collapse.  

 

 

Winners are determined by who held whom to below their seasonal point average.

 

It's simple: can a top hold a 2-3 score lead in the second half of a playoff game?  

33 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

What do the Vikings have to do with anything (and do you think the Vikings even score 10 points without Diggs)?  I'm talking about the Bills-Texans game where just 1 more point would have won the game for the Bills in regulation.  Claiming Diggs wouldn't have even provided that is patently absurd and you know it.

 

The Vikings had 2 stud WRs and still managed 10 points too save their season.  The Bills adding one more to that game doesn't guarantee them the win just because you say so.  

 

 

 

[Shaw66]

3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Winners are determined by who held whom to below their seasonal point average.

 

It's simple: can a top hold a 2-3 score lead in the second half of a playoff game?  

Can an offense with a top 5 receiver and top 10 quarter back score score 19 points in a half after being shut out?   

 

Bills shut out a really good offense for a half.   They didn't in the second half.   That's not a collapse.  That's getting outplayed in the second half by a good offense, just as much as the defense outplayed their offense in the first half.   No one's calling the the Texans' offensive performance in that game a "collapse."    The defense wasn't quite good enough.   The Bills' offense flat out didn't deliver when it had to.   

[Mr. WEO]

21 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Can an offense with a top 5 receiver and top 10 quarter back score score 19 points in a half after being shut out?   

 

Bills shut out a really good offense for a half.   They didn't in the second half.   That's not a collapse.  That's getting outplayed in the second half by a good offense, just as much as the defense outplayed their offense in the first half.   No one's calling the the Texans' offensive performance in that game a "collapse."    The defense wasn't quite good enough.   The Bills' offense flat out didn't deliver when it had to.   

 

 

It's the definition of a collapse, in fact. 

'

The Bills Offense had delivered the D ("top 3") a 16 point late 3rd Q Lead over a slightly above mediocre (not "really good") scoring offense and a 13th ranked QB.

[Doc]

14 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

The Vikings had 2 stud WRs and still managed 10 points too save their season.  The Bills adding one more to that game doesn't guarantee them the win just because you say so. 

 

 It's not just me WEO.  Most people would say the Bills win that game with Diggs in the lineup.  Now if you had said Sanders...

[Shaw66]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

It's the definition of a collapse, in fact. 

'

The Bills Offense had delivered the D ("top 3") a 16 point late 3rd Q Lead over a slightly above mediocre (not "really good") scoring offense and a 13th ranked QB.

Bills defense held them to one point fewer than they were scoring on average for the last seven games of the season, and 3 points less than they were scoring in the last 6 games of the season.   Bills defense held them to 40 yards fewer than they were averaging.   And three points they gave up came on a short field created by an Allen fumble.  

 

Defense certainly could have played better.   It was not a collapse.   

 

It's not a collapse when, with the game on the line, on two of Houston's last three possessions, the Bills held them to two three and odds and stopped a fourth down short yardage play.   That's losing, but it's not a collapse.  

[The Jokeman]

On 4/5/2020 at 6:09 PM, without a drought said:

I figured out the same thing except I had Diggs taking away targets from Beasley and Brown, which led to fewer catches, yards and TD's for both of them.

Vid but think Josh Allen is better off not getting Diggs last year as it might have caused exceeded expectations. It's also made him develop relations with Brown and Beasley who are going to be as important as Diggs to make Josh and this offense take another step up in his journey to be an above average QB.

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, The Jokeman said:

Vid but think Josh Allen is better off not getting Diggs last year as it might have caused exceeded expectations. It's also made him develop relations with Brown and Beasley who are going to be as important as Diggs to make Josh and this offense take another step up in his journey to be an above average QB.

That's an interesting point.   

 

Josh has his relationship with Beas and Brown.   Now Diggs can come in, and he knows Brown and Beas are vets and he can trust them.   It will make it easier to roll Diggs into the mix with these pre-existing relationships.    I suppose someone in Brown's position might have preferred to stay the #1 guy - #1 is good for the ego.   But Brown seems like a pretty savvy guy, and I think he knows he isn't a Diggs.  And I think he knows that Diggs will actually be good for him.   

 

Again, I wasn't talking about the practicality of actually adding Diggs last year.   I just wanted to see what his production, added to the production of the team, would have meant to Josh's passer rating.  

[Mr. WEO]

15 hours ago, Doc said:

 

 It's not just me WEO.  Most people would say the Bills win that game with Diggs in the lineup.  Now if you had said Sanders...

 

 

Right...Mr. President.

 

 

15 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Bills defense held them to one point fewer than they were scoring on average for the last seven games of the season, and 3 points less than they were scoring in the last 6 games of the season.   Bills defense held them to 40 yards fewer than they were averaging.   And three points they gave up came on a short field created by an Allen fumble.  

 

Defense certainly could have played better.   It was not a collapse.   

 

It's not a collapse when, with the game on the line, on two of Houston's last three possessions, the Bills held them to two three and odds and stopped a fourth down short yardage play.   That's losing, but it's not a collapse.  

 

 

None of that matters, obviously.  Only what was transpired in that game. A top D doesn't get a special prize for keeping a mediocre Offense under 20.  

 

Look, if these teams were trading leads the whole game, or if the D shut out Texans in the second half after giving up 19 in the first half, you may have a point and it would all be on the Offense.

 

But that's not what happened.  They blew a sizable lead in the latter phase of the game.  That really is the definition of a collapse.  

 

[Doc]

47 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Right...Mr. President.

 

Yup.  But stay on your island, Gilligan.

[billsfan89]

On 4/5/2020 at 7:12 PM, Ethan in Portland said:

Defense collapsed against the Texans. Another WR would not have made a difference last year in the playoffs. Diggs maybe gets them one more win but they still are in the WC spot.

Diggs will be huge in 2020 when the schedule is much harder.

 

Maybe they add another field goal when they were up 16 having another play maker there could have been the difference in a game where the margins are so tight. It is also possible the Bills could have won an extra game going into week 17 and been playing for the division possibly against the Jets. Who knows, it is worthless at this point. 

[njbuff]

The Bills were always a year away in 2019 no matter if they have Diggs or not in 2019.