C.Biscuit97 Posted April 5, 2020 Posted April 5, 2020 3 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said: Not entirely true. Fans were not pleased during those years and the general feeling watching Gilmore get beat by Chris Hogan and Brandon Marshall twice a year was that he was “overrated” in terms of being one of the best CB’s in the NFL. He was regarded as good but not as good as the promise he showed in 2014. Few really cared when he signed the deal he did in NE. The NE factor is definitely a big reason, but I feel fans soured on him a few seasons before. Could it be that maybe some Bills fans Had biases against Gilmore and maybe judged him unfairly? Because the vast majority of non Bills nfl people, including the best coach ever ?, think Gilmore is a great player. Like he’s on a Hall of Fame track. 1
Doc Posted April 5, 2020 Posted April 5, 2020 Just now, Phil The Thrill said: Here’s the question - what led to Gilmore leaving? Who decided to let him walk? Was it Whaley? Or a newly hired McDermott? Or was the team in such bad cap space (thanks Whaley) that they knew they couldn’t afford his market value? He wasn't worth paying and the Bills probably knew they could replace him. Which they did. 1
MJS Posted April 5, 2020 Posted April 5, 2020 3 hours ago, ScottLaw said: Some Bills fans have to convince themselves letting those two go were good moves.... I guess you could argue that. Watkins has been inconsistent and only flashed what he can do from time to time, but was an intricate reason for why the Chiefs won the SB. Gilmore had a so so final year here and then got a nice contract from the best run franchise in sports and has been one of the best corners in the NFL but some Bills fans think he isn’t all that good. It’s hilarious. ? You seem to complain about every current Bills player and the coaches and GM and seem to hate everything about the Bills, so I really have a hard time believing that you were defending any part of that Bills team that was far worse than this one, especially Sammy Watkins. Are you saying that you defended Sammy while fans were complaining about him, the guy we traded away a first round pick to move up and take? You thought that was a good move and you, of all people, defended that player as a Bill? And are you saying you defended Gilmore while he was here? You really don't seem like the type to defend Bills players. You seem like the type to trash them and then start defending them once they leave. 2
Doc Posted April 5, 2020 Posted April 5, 2020 Just now, MJS said: You seem to complain about every current Bills player and the coaches and GM and seem to hate everything about the Bills, so I really have a hard time believing that you were defending any part of that Bills team that was far worse than this one, especially Sammy Watkins. Are you saying that you defended Sammy while fans were complaining about him, the guy we traded away a first round pick to move up and take? You thought that was a good move and you, of all people, defended that player as a Bill? And are you saying you defended Gilmore while he was here? You really don't seem like the type to defend Bills players. You seem like the type to trash them and then start defending them once they leave. We have several here like that. 1
MJS Posted April 5, 2020 Posted April 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said: Here’s the question - what led to Gilmore leaving? Who decided to let him walk? Was it Whaley? Or a newly hired McDermott? Or was the team in such bad cap space (thanks Whaley) that they knew they couldn’t afford his market value? He's also a man corner, as was Darby, so McDermott brought in guys who fit his scheme. 1
Cripple Creek Posted April 5, 2020 Posted April 5, 2020 11 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: I’m more of a congratulater than a hater. I can recognize how good NE has been and their good players. I’d rather beat NEceorh Brady than get excited about him going to TB. I suppose you're also one of those @Gugny 's who also feel that a championship won in an abbreviated season would be tainted and not worthy of celebration?
Phil The Thrill Posted April 5, 2020 Posted April 5, 2020 Just now, ScottLaw said: The entire defense took a hit when Rex arrived. Not one defensive player showed the promise they showed in 2014, again, in large part to Rex Ryan. If Jerry Hughes was a FA in 2017 and signed with the Patriots we’d be having the same discussion. And Gilmore didn’t get beat by Brandon Marshall twice a year. You are just making things up now. Ha but he did get beat twice a year by Chris Hogan! You didn’t argue that! I was there in person in Week 2 of the 2016 season. Yes, Gilmore Did repeatedly get beat by Brandon Marshall and might have gotten beat by Quincy Enunwa too. I can find the footage if you’d like. Fitzpatrick carved Gilmore and Darby up repeatedly and that was when I think the “overrated” talk ramped up. I’m not doubting that the system didn’t have an effect on his play - but I’m saying he wasn’t as good in 15 or 16 by any metric. That’s when fans started to turn on him. It happened before he signed with NE
MJS Posted April 5, 2020 Posted April 5, 2020 1 minute ago, Doc said: We have several here like that. Seriously, there's some real hypocrisy going on. I guarantee you that these guys were bashing everything about Watkins and Gilmore back when they were Bills. Because that's what they do. 1
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 5, 2020 Posted April 5, 2020 11 minutes ago, MJS said: What was there to embrace about Sammy Watkins, who spent most of his time injured in Buffalo? He had a good stretch of games one year here but the rest of his time was dreadful. Are you saying while that was going down that you weren't complaining about Watkins? He played in a high school offense (that finished top 10 in scoring) with terrible qbs (Tyrod was a solid game manager but passing down field was not his strength), hurt his foot (ask anyone receiver, it’s a killer injury), rushes back before it was fully healed to prove his toughness, and it missed him up the rest of the time he was here. He averaged a 0.5 Reviving yard per game more than Diggs has when he was a Bill. I like good football players personally. Couldn’t stay healthy and that sucks. But it wasn’t like he was playing with Brees or Rodgers when he was here.
Phil The Thrill Posted April 5, 2020 Posted April 5, 2020 3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Could it be that maybe some Bills fans Had biases against Gilmore and maybe judged him unfairly? Because the vast majority of non Bills nfl people, including the best coach ever ?, think Gilmore is a great player. Like he’s on a Hall of Fame track. I don’t think you could have watched him in 2015 and 2015 and said “hall of fame.” NO ONE was saying that back then. He was regarded as a good CB who maybe slipped a little. In hindsight it appears that coaching and the system did utilize what he did well. Did Bills fans mis-judge his ability? Maybe, but again he wasn’t playing great. When you see a player touting himself as a top corner getting beat by the likes of Brandon Marshall and Chris Hogan and then yelling at his teammates after, it going to be tough for the fan base to get behind him.
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 5, 2020 Posted April 5, 2020 9 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: what a filthy route.... And I like that. You can be a great player and get beat (I do think he was passing it off to the safety but who knows). It’s the freaking nfl. But I think where some fans are so quick to be like Gilmore sucks and ignore that he had a defensive player of the year season.
Phil The Thrill Posted April 5, 2020 Posted April 5, 2020 1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said: He played in a high school offense (that finished top 10 in scoring) with terrible qbs (Tyrod was a solid game manager but passing down field was not his strength), hurt his foot (ask anyone receiver, it’s a killer injury), rushes back before it was fully healed to prove his toughness, and it missed him up the rest of the time he was here. He averaged a 0.5 Reviving yard per game more than Diggs has when he was a Bill. I like good football players personally. Couldn’t stay healthy and that sucks. But it wasn’t like he was playing with Brees or Rodgers when he was here. Fans usually don’t have love for draft picks that don’t deliver their promise. The Bills traded 2 #1’s for Sammy and he was regarded as a “generational talent.” He flashes at times for sure, but overall you just can’t say that he lived up to the hype. Is it his fault? Not really. Your points about injuries are valid. But you can’t fault fans for voicing disappointing over a player who disappointed 1
njbuff Posted April 5, 2020 Posted April 5, 2020 I remember on BBMB that Gilmore was Bills fans favorite whipping boy. Gilmore was EASILY the most hated Bills during his time period with the Bills.
MJS Posted April 5, 2020 Posted April 5, 2020 1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said: And I like that. You can be a great player and get beat (I do think he was passing it off to the safety but who knows). It’s the freaking nfl. But I think where some fans are so quick to be like Gilmore sucks and ignore that he had a defensive player of the year season. Gilmore got faked out on that play. Plain and simple. Had nothing to do with passing him off to the safety. He literally got spun around and had his back to the offense. But Gilmore is an excellent player and one of the best corners in the league. He has made jaw dropping plays for NE.
Phil The Thrill Posted April 5, 2020 Posted April 5, 2020 9 minutes ago, MJS said: He's also a man corner, as was Darby, so McDermott brought in guys who fit his scheme. Eh...maybe but Whaley has an entire season to resign him before he hit FA. If you regard a player highly you usually lock them up before the offseason. I think that the Bills org might not have been as high on Gilmore given his performance in his last two seasons. 1 minute ago, MJS said: Gilmore got faked out on that play. Plain and simple. Had nothing to do with passing him off to the safety. He literally got spun around and had his back to the offense. But Gilmore is an excellent player and one of the best corners in the league. He has made jaw dropping plays for NE. I don’t disagree but again...back in 2016 there were few people saying he was on a “Hall of Fame track,” when he was getting burned by Chris Hogan. A lot of hindsight in this discussion
Doc Posted April 5, 2020 Posted April 5, 2020 3 minutes ago, njbuff said: I remember on BBMB that Gilmore was Bills fans favorite whipping boy. Gilmore was EASILY the most hated Bills during his time period with the Bills. Yeah because he, like Watkins, didn't live up to their draft positions/abilities.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted April 5, 2020 Posted April 5, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: And I like that. You can be a great player and get beat (I do think he was passing it off to the safety but who knows). It’s the freaking nfl. But I think where some fans are so quick to be like Gilmore sucks and ignore that he had a defensive player of the year season. yep just sour grapes. Gilmore can play and he was a fine corner in buffalo. Defense has been just fine without him too. Edited April 5, 2020 by Over 29 years of fanhood
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 5, 2020 Posted April 5, 2020 Just now, Phil The Thrill said: I don’t think you could have watched him in 2015 and 2015 and said “hall of fame.” NO ONE was saying that back then. He was regarded as a good CB who maybe slipped a little. In hindsight it appears that coaching and the system did utilize what he did well. Did Bills fans mis-judge his ability? Maybe, but again he wasn’t playing great. When you see a player touting himself as a top corner getting beat by the likes of Brandon Marshall and Chris Hogan and then yelling at his teammates after, it going to be tough for the fan base to get behind him. Cornerbacks get beat all the time. I don’t think most fans understand how difficult playing cornerback in the NFL is right now. Deion Sanders would give up catches with these rules. It is the most physically demanding position in sports. and I’ve been consistent with my Gilmore praise. I didn’t think he was a HOF but I thought he was pro bowl level and I never got the “hate” he received while a Bill. but good talks. I’ll enjoy the takedowns of the DPOY from afar. Gotta strap on the mask and gloves and head to the store to prepare for Wrestlemania. Go Randy Orton!!! go Sasha Banks!!!
njbuff Posted April 5, 2020 Posted April 5, 2020 Just now, Doc said: Yeah because he, like Watkins, didn't live up to their draft positions/abilities. Gilmore always played below expectations in the first half of his seasons with the Bills only to be very good in the second half of those seasons.s Hence the "not living up to expectations" part.
MJS Posted April 5, 2020 Posted April 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said: Eh...maybe but Whaley has an entire season to resign him before he hit FA. If you regard a player highly you usually lock them up before the offseason. I think that the Bills org might not have been as high on Gilmore given his performance in his last two seasons. I don’t disagree but again...back in 2016 there were few people saying he was on a “Hall of Fame track,” when he was getting burned by Chris Hogan. A lot of hindsight in this discussion Oh yeah, I'm in the camp that thinks Gilmore didn't want to be in Buffalo and never gave his all here. I thought he was an excellent player but I was frustrated with his lack of consistent effort and how he blamed others when he got beat. He's definately an all pro now, though.
Recommended Posts