I don’t get the hate that Josh Allen gets around here.

[Real McClappy]

On 4/4/2020 at 7:02 AM, BuffaloBills1998 said:

I get it he’s not perfect, but neither was Kemp, or Ferguson or even Kelly for that matter. First it’s finally we have a franchise QB now all of a sudden it’s let’s go get Watson and let Allen go so we don’t have to pay him 30 million. Like some of you guys need to make up your minds. Either your with Allen or your not. Again while Bills mafia is the best fan base in the NFL, we are also the most spoiled. Appreciate what we have and root for the guy to succeed. Things could be worse, we could still have Tyrod( I can’t throw the football) Taylor or Nathan( I cant stop throwing to the other team) Peterman. Or how about EJ Manuel or Kyle Orton or even better Jeff Tuel or Thad Lewis. I can’t imagine if Kelly’s first year in Buffalo happened in today’s game, there would probably be a million threads about running him out of town and demanding that we draft someone else. I understand being critical and even being concerned, but some of you guys need to stop being negative and back off a bit and watch and see how it all unfolds. Be patient as the kids still young and is only going into his third year in the NFL. I don’t see Cleveland or New Jersey fans coming down on their QBS as much as I see here. And in my opinion Allen is way better than Darnold and Mayfield. 

OP, I agree with a lot of what you said. Allen is the future and fans will see that this year if there is a season. Progression from year 1 to 2 was exactly what I was hoping for under a brand new Offense. The table is set and my expectations are sky high for the Bills next season. 

 

What I cannot understand is how Bills fans are the most spoiled? Excluding maybe last year have you seen the team for the last 18 yrs and what has held us back during that time frame? Until the QB position is 100% resolved in fans minds they are entitled to their thoughts. I personally feel we are there but can understand why some people are still skeptical. 

 

 

 

Edited April 5, 2020 by Real McNasty

[Mango]

36 minutes ago, DocLawless said:

I am not downplaying Dak's ability as a QB. He is the better QB right now for sure. And I want to be clear that I think Dak is a good quarterback, albeit not an all time great yet. I also think Josh Allen has some things still to prove/improve on before being crowned a franchise QB. However, I do think Dak is NOT worth the money he wants, and i think he has had better weapons than a lot of quarterbacks get to work with. Why can't I say that? His line has been notoriously good. His running back is a star. Has had Dez Bryant and Amari Cooper throughout his career. I was arguing about what I have seen with my own eyes about rushing, and that is that Josh Allens mobility is greater than Dak Prescotts. As far as downplaying other QB's as a defense mechanism, what are you talking about? You don't know me from Adam. I give props and accolades to many other QB's including Tom Brady, even thought I hate the pats. 

I think this is exactly at the heart of the argument for Josh. He is getting better. He’s done some

good things. But some think he hasn’t done enough to get the next contract based on how much QB’s get paid this year. It’s not that he shouldn’t be allowed to grow or the team should move on yet. 
 

This past years supporting cast on offense is a pretty good measure for him. Average OL. Just under average talent. You pay Josh what QB’s get plus our coaching staff being partial to the defense. That’s what you get. An average OL, Brown and Beasley (or maybe Diggs, Foster McKenzie). Will Josh be able to flourish if that is the cast. We don’t know, and it’s a message board so people are prognosticating. 

3 minutes ago, Real McNasty said:

OP, I agree with a lot of what you said. Allen is the future and fans will see that this year if there is a season. Progression from year 1 to 2 was exactly what I was hoping for under a brand new Offense. The table is set and my expectations are sky high for the Bills next season. 

 

What I cannot understand is how Bills fans are the most spoiled? Excluding maybe last year have you seen the team for the last 18 yrs and what has held us back during that time frame? Until the QB position is 100% resolved in fans minds they are entitled to their thoughts. I personally feel we are there but can understand why some people are still skeptical. 

 

 

 

You could take it a step further. This franchise was close to trash for 20 years and the fan base was still supportive through thick and thin. Other cities would not have been so kind. 

[Real McClappy]

7 minutes ago, Mango said:

You could take it a step further. This franchise was close to trash for 20 years and the fan base was still supportive through thick and thin. Other cities would not have been so kind. 

Truth, and prob why we are truly the best fans in the league IMO. 

 

The only spoiled fan base in the league are the Pats. 

[John from Riverside]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Our schedule is a lot tougher. I honestly don't buy this "it is impossible to know" stuff. I have only once in 8 seasons on this forum been more than a game out on Buffalo's final record (2015 I had 10-6 but Rex scraped his way to 8-8). I called 12 of the 16 games right last year. I am not trying to suggest I am some sort of genius. I most definitely am not. It just isn't that hard if you are paying attention to the NFL as a whole and not just to the Bills. You will miss on one or two teams every year (I had San Fran as a .500 team in 2019) but if you are paying attention you won't miss on many.  

You know Gunner I have heard the comment about the "schedule" is tougher thing.   I always believed it till I actually looked at it.

 

It really doesnt look tougher to me.....our own divisiion is significantly weaker.....that is what....6 games of the 16 right there.....there are some good teams on our schedule outside of our own yes.....but some weak ones as well.

 

I look at it like this...if we repeat last years record....but are a STRONGER team then last year we can come in and get that first playoff win......then we are cooking with fire.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, John from Riverside said:

You know Gunner I have heard the comment about the "schedule" is tougher thing.   I always believed it till I actually looked at it.

 

It really doesnt look tougher to me.....our own divisiion is significantly weaker.....that is what....6 games of the 16 right there.....there are some good teams on our schedule outside of our own yes.....but some weak ones as well.

 

I look at it like this...if we repeat last years record....but are a STRONGER team then last year we can come in and get that first playoff win......then we are cooking with fire.

 

For sure our own division is weaker. I don't see too many weak out of division opponents though. Who do you think the weak out of division games are? Oakland and the Chargers are the two I think I can see most likely as being bad but I think both are gonna be at worst that sort of 6-10 / 7-9 team who can upset a favoured opponent. 

[Dr. Who]

5 hours ago, Cripple Creek said:

Regarding BBO I searched back through 3/1.  Zero, zip, zilch.  Maybe you have him confused with someone else.

 

@Nextmanup did say this: 

and I agree with every word of it.  I don't see any hatred, zero; just like I don't feel any hatred.  I have expectations and everything is on Allen's shoulders.  If someone calls realistic expectations hatred then perhaps the problem lies within.

 

Nextmanup is not stating "expectations and everything is on Allen's shoulders." He presumes in a crusading fashion that Allen is not good and we ought to be moving on. Did you ever look in on game day threads? He's got an agenda and it's surprising you discerned no hint of that. I've read the fella numerous times and I've got a background in literature and philosophy, so reading comprehension is not typically a problem for me, but you know, you're free to give your own summary and conclusions and the folks who give Lombardi trophies for such are also free to enjoy their imposed free time in such a fashion.

[Cripple Creek]

1 hour ago, Dr. Who said:

Nextmanup is not stating "expectations and everything is on Allen's shoulders." He presumes in a crusading fashion that Allen is not good and we ought to be moving on. Did you ever look in on game day threads? He's got an agenda and it's surprising you discerned no hint of that. I've read the fella numerous times and I've got a background in literature and philosophy, so reading comprehension is not typically a problem for me, but you know, you're free to give your own summary and conclusions and the folks who give Lombardi trophies for such are also free to enjoy their imposed free time in such a fashion.

Sorry, I'm not going back to look at game day threads.  I typically avoid them game days so I won't subject myself to one now.   People say things in the "heat of passion" and I'm not going to hold someone to that.  The post I quoted seemed reasonable to me, likely because it was written when the OP was in a better frame of mind.  

[GoBills808]

51 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said:

Sorry, I'm not going back to look at game day threads.  I typically avoid them game days so I won't subject myself to one now.   People say things in the "heat of passion" and I'm not going to hold someone to that.  The post I quoted seemed reasonable to me, likely because it was written when the OP was in a better frame of mind.  

What about the round 1 2018 draft thread...would it surprise you to see the people who hated the pick from day 1 are the same ones who jump in every thread to say their bit against Allen?

[Cripple Creek]

4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

What about the round 1 2018 draft thread...would it surprise you to see the people who hated the pick from day 1 are the same ones who jump in every thread to say their bit against Allen?

I kinda like it.

 

That was heat of passion though too.  Lots of knee jerks.  Now, if you find someone who was very anti and cannot admit today that they've seen significant improvement...now there's your problem right there, Lou.

Edited April 5, 2020 by Cripple Creek

[gobills1212]

On 4/4/2020 at 10:54 PM, BuffaloBills1998 said:

I rooted for him and wanted him to be Kelly’s successor, but like I said before the team didn’t have his back and they kicked him out the door too quick. 

I remember when he got drafted I was like, Who the ***** is this guy LOL, until we traded up for him I had never heard of him and didn’t know about his college career. Even then it seemed like such a out of left field choice to draft him. I can’t remember but was he even being mentioned of being a first round pick? Should’ve taken Big Ben

I suppose,  i guess i was referring to his long and illustrious career he had prior to his time w the bills as a backup

[JESSEFEFFER]

I am happy with the progress he has made so far.  The team in general is ahead of schedule and is poised to be more relevant in the next few years than they have been for decades.  Josh continues to develop his QB skills while making plays I've never seen other QBs make and winning often enough to keep his job.  He is a rare package of size, athleticism and self awareness.  Fun days ahead once we get to the post pandemic world.

 

I should add this.  When he made that lateral with around a full minute to go before regulation ended, I openly freaked and yelled that he had gone "bat**** crazy."  That was maybe his worst QB moment ever as a Bill.   In that situation, almost in game tying fg range and with about a full minute left, I was chanting "protect the ball, protect the ball, protect the ball" as he was making that scramble run due to the likelihood that defenders were likely to try to strip it.  Then he pitched it while under tackle!  

 

That was somewhat ironic as I had said that he should play like Bruce Wayne most of the time but could play the hero when the Bat Signal went up.  Now we have to worry about unnecessary, bat**** crazy attempts to make a play.  Oh well.  He will be fun to watch in year 3.  By the way, as someone pointed out, the Bills are 11 and 5 in the last 16 games that Josh started and finished.  So nice to win while he learns to balance situational risk vs. reward decision making.  Of those 5 losses, I'd say the worst one was the Eagles game which was the also the most windy game of the 2019 season.  I think that one was when the onfield, fireworks prop blew over during the pregame.  Basically beat by QB scrambles and screen passes.

Edited April 6, 2020 by JESSEFEFFER

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, JESSEFEFFER said:

I am happy with the progress he has made so far.  The team in general is ahead of schedule and is poised to be more relevant in the next few years than they have been for decades.  Josh continues to develop his QB skills while making plays I've never seen other QBs make and winning often enough to keep his job.  He is a rare package of size, athleticism and selfawareness.  Fun days ahead once we get to the post pandemic world.

 

I think they are right on schedule rather than ahead of it. They have to win the division this year to stay on that schedule. 

[BuffaloBills1998]

12 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The Cowboys need to pay Dak. And they need to do it soon. 

No they don’t, I’m sorry to say but Dak is replaceable. He’s not worth what he wants especially when the offense he’s in is a power run first offense. I’m sorry stats don’t mean jack if your not winning football games which is what happened last year. He put up nice stats but failed to get his team to the playoffs, paying Dak the money he wants could set that franchise back a number of years and while he’s cheap, Jerry Jones knows this and isn’t giving into Dak’s contract demands

[Bangarang]

4 minutes ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

No they don’t, I’m sorry to say but Dak is replaceable. He’s not worth what he wants especially when the offense he’s in is a power run first offense. I’m sorry stats don’t mean jack if your not winning football games which is what happened last year. He put up nice stats but failed to get his team to the playoffs, paying Dak the money he wants could set that franchise back a number of years and while he’s cheap, Jerry Jones knows this and isn’t giving into Dak’s contract demands

Who do you suggest replaces Dak since it seems so easy?

[BuffaloBills1998]

5 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

Who do you suggest replaces Dak since it seems so easy?

Well if I’m Dallas I’m gonna do my due diligence to try to trade up in the draft for a QB since they are rumored to anyways. And next year you have an even better QB class in next years draft. I’d say keep Prescott for the year on the tag, see how it plays out if once again he misses the playoffs then you have your answer on whether to pay him 45 mill year or not and if Prescott doesn’t let up and still thinks he’s worth 45 to 50 mill year and if you’re a position to draft high for a quarterback then you go get that quarterback in the draft presumably Lawrence tag Prescott and look for a trade partner for Dak which I’m sure you can find one and let someone else overpay for Dak while you can get your QB of the future in either this years or next years draft. Also you have Winston who also threw for 5,000 yards and could be just as effective in that offense as Dak is
 

Edited April 6, 2020 by BuffaloBills1998

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

No they don’t, I’m sorry to say but Dak is replaceable. He’s not worth what he wants especially when the offense he’s in is a power run first offense. I’m sorry stats don’t mean jack if your not winning football games which is what happened last year. He put up nice stats but failed to get his team to the playoffs, paying Dak the money he wants could set that franchise back a number of years and while he’s cheap, Jerry Jones knows this and isn’t giving into Dak’s contract demands

 

Dak HAS won though. His win-loss record is excellent and in 4 years in the league as a 4th round pick he has won two division titles and has a playoff win. And if you think he was the reason Dallas didn't make the playoffs last year I advise you to go back and watch more Dallas games. 

 

If Josh did this year what Dak did last year people would be clamouring to pay him. And rightly so. 

[JetsFan20]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

Well if I’m Dallas I’m gonna do my due diligence to try to trade up in the draft for a QB since they are rumored to anyways. And next year you have an even better QB class in next years draft. I’d say keep Prescott for the year on the tag, see how it plays out if once again he misses the playoffs then you have your answer on whether to pay him 45 mill year or not and if Prescott doesn’t let up and still thinks he’s worth 45 to 50 mill year and if you’re a position to draft high for a quarterback then you go get that quarterback in the draft presumably Lawrence tag Prescott and look for a trade partner for Dak which I’m sure you can find one and let someone else overpay for Dak while you can get your QB of the future in either this years or next years draft. Also you have Winston who also threw for 5,000 yards and could be just as effective in that offense as Dak is
 

It’s crazy to me that guys like Dak Prescott and Kirk Cousins put up these hall of fame type numbers year in and year out. Are they actually good and I’m just not watching the right games?

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, JetsFan20 said:

It’s crazy to me that guys like Dak Prescott and Kirk Cousins put up these hall of fame type numbers year in and year out. Are they actually good and I’m just not watching the right games?

 

Yea they are good. Not great. But good. They were both among the top 6 or 7 Quarterbacks in the league last year. I am higher on Dak than Kirk but I think both still get a little bit looked down upon because they were not highly touted draft prospects. Through 4 years Dak has been every bit as good and at times better than the guys who went #1 and #2 in that draft. 

[JetsFan20]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Dak HAS won though. His win-loss record is excellent and in 4 years in the league as a 4th round pick he has won two division titles and has a playoff win. And if you think he was the reason Dallas didn't make the playoffs last year I advise you to go back and watch more Dallas games. 

 

If Josh did this year what Dak did last year people would be clamouring to pay him. And rightly so. 

That’s precisely my point. You can’t tell me that Dak Prescott has more talent than Josh Allen. If Dak can put up those numbers why can’t Josh?

 

Is it coaching? Supporting cast?

 

Tannehill according to PFF and QBR was among the three worst QBs in the league under Gase with the Dolphins. He goes to Tennessee and all of a sudden he looks like Aaron Rodgers. 
 

Perhaps the answer is to build an offense around a running game since defenses are mostly built to stop the pass. 

[BuffaloBills1998]

8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Dak HAS won though. His win-loss record is excellent and in 4 years in the league as a 4th round pick he has won two division titles and has a playoff win. And if you think he was the reason Dallas didn't make the playoffs last year I advise you to go back and watch more Dallas games. 

 

If Josh did this year what Dak did last year people would be clamouring to pay him. And rightly so. 

Again stats are meaningless if your not winning, 8-8 and not making the playoffs is not winning. Stats don’t mean *****. And yes he was one of the reasons they didn’t make the playoffs. Their defense was trash but Dak ( minus the stats) was up and down as well. 

10 minutes ago, JetsFan20 said:

It’s crazy to me that guys like Dak Prescott and Kirk Cousins put up these hall of fame type numbers year in and year out. Are they actually good and I’m just not watching the right games?

Your never gonna win a SB with Kirk cousins under center that’s just a fact.