I don’t get the hate that Josh Allen gets around here.

[SoTier]

13 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

This would be more believeable if you didnt B word about EVERYTHING

 

Still...yes Josh is still a work in progress

 

When have I used the "B word" about Josh Allen???  What I've complained about -- repeatedly -- was how poorly the Bills managed their QB situation in 2018 -- including not bothering to have an experienced QB coach which could no way be blamed on the team being in their self-imposed "cap hell"  -- resulting in Allen literally being "thrown to the wolves" as a rookie -- poorly prepared and lacking both protection and weapons.   That all changed dramatically in 2019 and continued into the 2020 FA period so far which suggests that the firing of Russ Brandon as head honcho of the Bills and Sabres in May 2018 brought a shift in the Bills' corporate philosophy that enabled Beane to demonstrate his competency as an NFL GM in acquiring talent to put around Allen, which he's done.

 

Now it's up to Allen to step up and perform better on the field than he did in 2019. 

 

 

Edited April 5, 2020 by SoTier

[BeastMaster]

I agree that I don't see a ton of hate on these boards in regards to Allen. What I do see is a ton of hate by media...particularly ESPN.

 

It's fine to have doubts still, and I can understand why some would. He shows inaccuracy at times, and his deep ball wasn't very good. Those are things that will draw criticism and rightfully so.

 

But I look at it from the perspective that he wasn't in a good college program...as evidenced by his first season with Bills compared to his second season. What we saw was clear evidence that a solid coaching staff can help him make major strides.

 

So with that in mind, and the belief that improvement should continue...especially with upgrades to his line and receivers, let's look at the other parts of his game like his toughness and running ability. He's a serious goal line and short yardage weapon. He's a leader on and off the field, and he is determined to work to improve his game.

 

So while some see the flaws and hold onto the narrative that was given to him coming into the league, I see a kid that should only get better and that has given me no reason to believe he will not continue to get better and lead this team to a championship.

[Da webster guy]

From my perspecitve, Josh gets tons of support and love from media and vast majority of fans.  The negative fans will always be heard more but they're far outnumbered.

 

Josh cleaned up his INT issues, and we had a playoff season last year.  Great guy, leader, fun to watch, humble, competitor etc.

 

There will always be the Sal Maiorana, Jerry Sullivan writers that B word all day long about everything but just ignore them and focus on all the upside of our situation in Buff right now.  Lot to be excited about.

 

For those that say our schedule is a lot tougher next year, I say every year there is massive change in how teams play, some surprise by playing better and some just have off years. Rams and Patriots seemed dominant 2 years ago, Pats fizzled in playoffs and Rams barely beat .500 and missed the playoffs.   Steelers, Browns, Falcs, lot of ups and downs from one year to the next. 

 

Bills 11 wins next year, undefeated at home.

[Cripple Creek]

Still searching for this hatred.  Can anyone show me the hatred?  OP can't.  Anyone gotta link?

[GunnerBill]

27 minutes ago, Da webster guy said:

From my perspecitve, Josh gets tons of support and love from media and vast majority of fans.  The negative fans will always be heard more but they're far outnumbered.

 

Josh cleaned up his INT issues, and we had a playoff season last year.  Great guy, leader, fun to watch, humble, competitor etc.

 

There will always be the Sal Maiorana, Jerry Sullivan writers that B word all day long about everything but just ignore them and focus on all the upside of our situation in Buff right now.  Lot to be excited about.

 

For those that say our schedule is a lot tougher next year, I say every year there is massive change in how teams play, some surprise by playing better and some just have off years. Rams and Patriots seemed dominant 2 years ago, Pats fizzled in playoffs and Rams barely beat .500 and missed the playoffs.   Steelers, Browns, Falcs, lot of ups and downs from one year to the next. 

 

Bills 11 wins next year, undefeated at home.

 

Our schedule is a lot tougher. I honestly don't buy this "it is impossible to know" stuff. I have only once in 8 seasons on this forum been more than a game out on Buffalo's final record (2015 I had 10-6 but Rex scraped his way to 8-8). I called 12 of the 16 games right last year. I am not trying to suggest I am some sort of genius. I most definitely am not. It just isn't that hard if you are paying attention to the NFL as a whole and not just to the Bills. You will miss on one or two teams every year (I had San Fran as a .500 team in 2019) but if you are paying attention you won't miss on many.  

[Dr. Who]

17 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said:

Still searching for this hatred.  Can anyone show me the hatred?  OP can't.  Anyone gotta link?

Well, I suppose it may depend on how one defines hatred. Go search Nextmanup or BringbackOrton. There are a few others.

[Billl]

10 hours ago, DocLawless said:

Dak runs just as well as Allen on which planet? Certainly not this one. 

 

Also want to add that Dak has had a top 5 running back and line his entire career. You could also argue his receivers are well above what Allen has had to work with. 

Dak averaged 5.3 YPC last season to 4.7 for Josh.  Josh runs more, so he scores more TDs, but they score at the same rate.  Allen had 9 TDs on 109 carries.  Dak has 127 carries in the last 2 seasons with 9 TDs.

 

They're very similar runners as well.  Both ran a 4.8 40 yard dash at the combine.  Both use their size and athleticism to gain yards rather than speed and quickness.  Prescott is a little better in terms of ball security as well.  Overall, they’re very equal as runners.  Both are above average but not elite.

[maryland-bills-fan]

A lot of this "hate" is just trolls trolling for getting people upset.  Allen is the Buffalo QB, people root for him and the Bills to do good. The jerks like to piss on the Bill fan's hopes and get some thrills for being able to affect people  Jerks like that are losers.

[Cripple Creek]

1 hour ago, Dr. Who said:

Well, I suppose it may depend on how one defines hatred. Go search Nextmanup or BringbackOrton. There are a few others.

Regarding BBO I searched back through 3/1.  Zero, zip, zilch.  Maybe you have him confused with someone else.

 

@Nextmanup did say this: 

Quote

It's all on Allen. He needs to improve dramatically, and perform on that new level CONSISTENTLY, for the team to take the next step. The surrounding pieces are good enough to make the playoffs and have a shot at doing something in them.

and I agree with every word of it.  I don't see any hatred, zero; just like I don't feel any hatred.  I have expectations and everything is on Allen's shoulders.  If someone calls realistic expectations hatred then perhaps the problem lies within.

 

[oldmanfan]

2 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

When have I used the "B word" about Josh Allen???  What I've complained about -- repeatedly -- was how poorly the Bills managed their QB situation in 2018 -- including not bothering to have an experienced QB coach which could no way be blamed on the team being in their self-imposed "cap hell"  -- resulting in Allen literally being "thrown to the wolves" as a rookie -- poorly prepared and lacking both protection and weapons.   That all changed dramatically in 2019 and continued into the 2020 FA period so far which suggests that the firing of Russ Brandon as head honcho of the Bills and Sabres in May 2018 brought a shift in the Bills' corporate philosophy that enabled Beane to demonstrate his competency as an NFL GM in acquiring talent to put around Allen, which he's done.

 

Now it's up to Allen to step up and perform better on the field than he did in 2019. 

 

 

Beane admitted they should have brought a vet like Anderson in earlier.  How long do you want to stomp on the corpse of this issue?

[BurpleBull]

I thought this thread would be dated from 2018.

 

I don't think the majority of people here express disdain for Allen these days.

[Mango]

I love Josh the leader and the person. He is electric to watch play football. But I have yet to like Josh the passer. At times I think he needs to work on his consistency. At worst, he’s not a quality passer of the football. I think that’s a fair place to be. 
 

I do think we should look at his rate of improvement. And he has absolutely improved in some areas, just not there yet. 
 

I also think we should measure Josh’s improvements outside of upgraded surrounding cast. So last season we upgraded the OL and WR from bad to average/meh. Did we see a significant improvement above supporting cast? Similarly, if Josh got 0% better this season (which I don’t expect) but the OL has another year of continuity and adding Diggs makes his WR Corp top flight, what are we expecting in terms of production just because of cast. Anything above that is Josh. 
 

Obviously it is difficult to provide clear lines and is much more nuanced, but I think it is important to keep in mind. I think Diggs and the OL alone should be about 4% completion and 600 more passing yards-ish 

[DocLawless]

2 hours ago, Billl said:

Dak averaged 5.3 YPC last season to 4.7 for Josh.  Josh runs more, so he scores more TDs, but they score at the same rate.  Allen had 9 TDs on 109 carries.  Dak has 127 carries in the last 2 seasons with 9 TDs.

 

They're very similar runners as well.  Both ran a 4.8 40 yard dash at the combine.  Both use their size and athleticism to gain yards rather than speed and quickness.  Prescott is a little better in terms of ball security as well.  Overall, they’re very equal as runners.  Both are above average but not elite.

Now do 2018. Dak ran 75 times for 301 yards averaging 4.1 YPC. He also fumbled the ball 12 times. Allen ran 89 times for 631 averaging 7.1 YPC, with 8 fumbles. I could be wrong here, but I believe it has been said that Allen was told to run less and focus more on being a pocket passer in 2019, which would explain the regression of those numbers. Furthermore, I watch both teams quite often and Allens ability to escape a broken down pocket exceeds Prescotts. On top of that, Prescott is older, has been in the league longer, and has had a better roster around him every year of his career, minus last year arguably. I don't think many would argue against the cowboys having much better offensive weapons the past few years than the bills. 

Edited April 5, 2020 by DocLawless

[GunnerBill]

10 minutes ago, DocLawless said:

Now do 2018. Dak ran 75 times for 301 yards averaging 4.1 YPC. He also fumbled the ball 12 times. Allen ran 89 times for 631 averaging 7.1 YPC, with 8 fumbles. I could be wrong here, but I believe it has been said that Allen was told to run less and focus more on being a pocket passer in 2019, which would explain the regression of those numbers. Furthermore, I watch both teams quite often and Allens ability to escape a broken down pocket exceeds Prescotts. On top of that, Prescott is older, has been in the league longer, and has had a better roster around him every year of his career, minus last year arguably. I don't think many would argue against the cowboys having much better offensive weapons the past few years than the bills. 

 

If Josh has the season in 2020 Dak had last year people will be falling over themselves to crown Josh as the franchise QB. And rightly so. It constantly amazes me how much Bills fans want to downplay other QBs. It is the most bizarre of defense mechanisms. 

[DocLawless]

9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

If Josh has the season in 2020 Dak had last year people will be falling over themselves to crown Josh as the franchise QB. And rightly so. It constantly amazes me how much Bills fans want to downplay other QBs. It is the most bizarre of defense mechanisms. 

I am not downplaying Dak's ability as a QB. He is the better QB right now for sure. And I want to be clear that I think Dak is a good quarterback, albeit not an all time great yet. I also think Josh Allen has some things still to prove/improve on before being crowned a franchise QB. However, I do think Dak is NOT worth the money he wants, and i think he has had better weapons than a lot of quarterbacks get to work with. Why can't I say that? His line has been notoriously good. His running back is a star. Has had Dez Bryant and Amari Cooper throughout his career. I was arguing about what I have seen with my own eyes about rushing, and that is that Josh Allens mobility is greater than Dak Prescotts. As far as downplaying other QB's as a defense mechanism, what are you talking about? You don't know me from Adam. I give props and accolades to many other QB's including Tom Brady, even thought I hate the pats. 

Edited April 5, 2020 by DocLawless

[Billl]

15 minutes ago, DocLawless said:

Now do 2018. Dak ran 75 times for 301 yards averaging 4.1 YPC. He also fumbled the ball 12 times. Allen ran 89 times for 631 averaging 7.1 YPC, with 8 fumbles. I could be wrong here, but I believe it has been said that Allen was told to run less and focus more on being a pocket passer in 2019, which would explain the regression of those numbers. Furthermore, I watch both teams quite often and Allens ability to escape a broken down pocket exceeds Prescotts. On top of that, Prescott is older, has been in the league longer, and has had a better roster around him every year of his career, minus last year arguably. I don't think many would argue against the cowboys having much better offensive weapons the past few years than the bills. 

Dak has 31 fumbles in 64 starts.  Allen has 22 in 27 starts, so I don’t know what you’re getting at there.  When it comes to running ability, they’re the same guy.  Josh’s running ability stands out because it’s his biggest skill.  Nobody talks about Dak being an equally effective runner because he threw for 5,000 yards and 30 TDs.

 

You've really got to split hairs to say one is better than the other, but with all else being so equal, give me the guy who fumbles a little less than once every two games versus the guy who fumbles a little less than once a game.

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, DocLawless said:

I am not downplaying Dak's ability as a QB. He is the better QB right now for sure. And I want to be clear that I think Dak is a good quarterback, albeit not an all time great yet. I also think Josh Allen has some things still to prove/improve on before being crowned a franchise QB. However, I do think Dak is NOT worth the money he wants, and i think he has had better weapons than a lot of quarterbacks get to work with. Why can't I say that? His line has been notoriously good. His running back is a star. Has had Dez Bryant and Amari Cooper throughout his career. I was arguing about what I have seen with my own eyes about rushing, and that is that Josh Allens mobility is greater than Dak Prescotts. As far as downplaying other QB's as a defense mechanism, what are you talking about? You don't know me from Adam. I give props and accolades to many other QB's including Tom Brady, even thought I hate the pats. 

 

The Cowboys need to pay Dak. And they need to do it soon. 

[DocLawless]

4 minutes ago, Billl said:

Dak has 31 fumbles in 64 starts.  Allen has 22 in 27 starts, so I don’t know what you’re getting at there.  When it comes to running ability, they’re the same guy.  Josh’s running ability stands out because it’s his biggest skill.  Nobody talks about Dak being an equally effective runner because he threw for 5,000 yards and 30 TDs.

 

You've really got to split hairs to say one is better than the other, but with all else being so equal, give me the guy who fumbles a little less than once every two games versus the guy who fumbles a little less than once a game.

Nice dude! Cowboys are always looking for more fans I'm sure. Ill take the younger guy with higher potential who has had to run for his life, play with Zay Jones as his number 1 receiver and a patchwork O-line. 

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The Cowboys need to pay Dak. And they need to do it soon. 

He should be the highest paid QB in the league? He turned down top 3 money. Glad you aren't in Beanes position. 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, DocLawless said:

 

He should be the highest paid QB in the league? He turned down top 3 money. Glad you aren't in Beanes position. 

 

We have been over this so many times recently. The way QB contracts work these days is you pay a guy for 5 years. The first one he is hideously overpaid in comparison to his peers. The second one he is a bit overpaid. The third he is paid about where he should be in the market and the 4th he is slightly underpaid. The 5th year you would get him at a bargain price but of course you don't because they then want an extension. 

 

If you believe your QB is top 10 you need to be willing to pay them top 2 money in terms of average per year when you sign them. That is just the way the market works now. Derek Carr was the top paid QB in the league for a park drive minute when he signed his deal and now he is outside the top 10. 

 

You better resign yourself to to fact that because he is a year behind in the cycle if Josh earns a deal the Bills will have to pay him pretty much Mahomes money. And the year after the Cardinals will likely have to put Kyler in that bracket too. It is just the way the QB market is now. 

[DocLawless]

9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

We have been over this so many times recently. The way QB contracts work these days is you pay a guy for 5 years. The first one he is hideously overpaid in comparison to his peers. The second one he is a bit overpaid. The third he is paid about where he should be in the market and the 4th he is slightly underpaid. The 5th year you would get him at a bargain price but of course you don't because they then want an extension. 

 

If you believe your QB is top 10 you need to be willing to pay them top 2 money in terms of average per year when you sign them. That is just the way the market works now. Derek Carr was the top paid QB in the league for a park drive minute when he signed his deal and now he is outside the top 10. 

 

You better resign yourself to to fact that because he is a year behind in the cycle if Josh earns a deal the Bills will have to pay him pretty much Mahomes money. And the year after the Cardinals will likely have to put Kyler in that bracket too. It is just the way the QB market is now. 

That's fair, and I agree with you. However, if you plan to assign such a large percentage of your cap to that position, you better be sure that your QB can win with a lesser roster than he is currently working with. AKA actually be the man. I guess this makes me realize how much I appreciate the Tom Brady attitude of being willing to make a little less in order to build a better team around him. Although there has been speculation he was still getting his money other ways. Who knows for sure though. 

Edited April 5, 2020 by DocLawless