MJS Posted April 4, 2020 Posted April 4, 2020 16 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said: Nonetheless, he's the best QB on the roster. HOF QBs like Kelly are hard to find. We'd rather have Josh under center than some random journeyman. Let's support the guy. Nonetheless, Josh does wear a Bills uni. He's one of us. He's trying his hardest to bring us W's. He fights for the Bills. Let's support the guy. See, I don't support that mentality. If you have a bad player on your roster, you should be trying to replace him. You shouldn't stick by him through thick and thin just because he is a Bill. Fans recognize bad play just as they recognize good play (and they can be wrong about both sometimes). The goal is to win the Superbowl. That means constantly trimming the fat and replacing with better players. If one day we know that Allen has reached his peak and that peak isn't good enough to win a Superbowl, we need to move on. Luckily we still have a 2-3 years to evaluate him. I personally think he has shown a lot of good signs. 1 1
Boatdrinks Posted April 4, 2020 Posted April 4, 2020 Some are just miserable no matter what and always know a better way, a way things should have been done. They always know best, would have made a different choice here or there and always want another team’s players, coach etc. Has to be a pretty unsatisfying way to watch the game. 1
Boatdrinks Posted April 4, 2020 Posted April 4, 2020 33 minutes ago, Dr. Who said: I can think of three or four who only post so they can hate on the fella. They literally hijack threads to tell you he is not and never will be any good. You have to read very selectively to miss that. Nearly everyone agrees he has to play better and almost everyone recognizes that saying that does not equate to hate. I agree. It’s very annoying when some fans just want to move on to the next guy before the time for actually making that decision has elapsed. Those are the haters. Now, that window of time is different for each player. It’s a judgment call based on the body of work to that point, level of improvement, input of coaches and GM etc. Draft position/ investment is a factor up to a point , but it’s not the main factor. It’s why an EJ Manuel is quickly moved on from, and why Josh Allen gets more time. The odds are against any drafted QB being franchise, but you have to let it play out. It’s fine to criticize and discuss, but within the framework of knowing the player will be given a reasonable amount of time. Outside of that framework, it’s just histrionics and vitriol. 2 1
Dopey Posted April 4, 2020 Posted April 4, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, thebandit27 said: Again I will ask: does anyone see any evidence to support the idea that Allen will continue to improve and elevate his game to the next level? Now, the converse: does anyone see any evidence to support the idea that Allen will NOT continue to improve and elevate his game to the next level? To answer the 1st question: YES I saw a lot of improvement from yr 1 to yr 2. To answer the 2nd question: NO See above. I will say, this will be his 3rd training camp and same coaching staff. He has as much offensive talent around him as just about any team and a defense that will keep him in contention to win just about every game. The kid gloves are off now. We need to figure out if he's good before his rookie contract is up and he's set up right now to show it. When I say good, I mean $35 million per season good. It's really hard to give a QB more than the rookie contract to prove it. It costs too much. Edited April 4, 2020 by Dopey 3
Don Otreply Posted April 4, 2020 Posted April 4, 2020 (edited) The deal is this, “if” the QB or any other player does not rise to the level that Beane/McDermott want/need over an allotted period of time that player will be traded or released regardless of who that player is. It not complicated in the least, that’s how it works. Beane and the entire organization treat the players very well, but he is more ruthless than many think, he does not F around. Jmo. Boatdrinks, in his post above makes correct points. Go Bills!!! Edited April 4, 2020 by Don Otreply 3
Dopey Posted April 4, 2020 Posted April 4, 2020 1 hour ago, BuffaloBills1998 said: ????????? Gardner Minshew ???LMAO. Thank god your not the GM https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2019/3/1/18242791/josh-allen-nfl-draft-2019-jacksonville-jaguars-kentucky-scouting-report-film-breakdown-edge
Logic Posted April 4, 2020 Posted April 4, 2020 I haven’t read through this whole thread, but... What hate? Nationally and on Twitter, sure, people doubt him or actively mock him. That’s gone on since he declared for the draft. Here in Bills land, though? I don’t see much hate. I DO sometimes see people being level headed and realistic about Allen, though, pointing out that he’s not yet where he needs to be and he needs to continue to improve in order to become a franchise QB. I also see a segment of Bills fans who can’t stand even a WHIFF of criticism or constructive analysis and get their panties in a bunch if you even DARE to point out flaws in Allen’s game. It’s ridiculous. Its simple: Josh Allen has the tools necessary to be a franchise QB and has flashed enough potential to make many believe that he will achieve “franchise” status. Pointing OUT the fact that he isn’t there yet causes the more sensitive Bills fans to cry persecution and call you a “hater”. My personal view is that he took great strides in year 2, and he’ll need to take equally great strides in year 3. As long as he keeps improving, all is well. If he suddenly STOPS improving and tops out at about the level he’s currently at, then he’s not a franchise QB. 4 1 2
loyal2dagame Posted April 4, 2020 Posted April 4, 2020 Wow, Josh Allen is polarizing. I'm a pro-Allen guy and with that disclaimer out of the way, i will add this: Right now, Allen is just good enough. Good enough to not throw picks in the redzone, or 4th quarter based on 2019. Good enough to manage the game to get a win or maybe put together a game winning drive in the 4th quarter. I am waiting for a string of games where he takes over and dominates. I don't need 300 yrd games.... i need more than 24 points, ball control, and clock management. Comparing Qb's is getting silly. Everybody wants their guy to be the next big thing, but a lot of people use tunnel vision looking at their Qb. Mahomes, Watson, Mayfield, ect, what was their average time to throw? How often did they have a clean pocket? How many times do they have to scramble and throw on the run? How many drive killing DROPS did their receivers have? How many drive killing penalties? How much is on the player and how much is on the playcalling? Only by being a complete tape nerd can you answer those questions and make a somewhat educated guess. Comparisons and what ifs are getting old. Wins matter. The Bills are relevant again for the first time in a loooong time. Allen is in the driver seat. Sit back and enjoy the ride. I'm sure every Bill's fan is hoping he doesn't crash. And if you are a Bills fan rooting against him succeeding, there may be something wrong with your fandom. 5 1
JaCrispy Posted April 4, 2020 Posted April 4, 2020 4 hours ago, JMF2006 said: I have said it before and I will say it again I remember a lot of Bills fans wanting Reich to start over Kelly permanently. Its human nature...the grass is always greener on the other side of the street. Exactly, you always want better than what you have...
Bangarang Posted April 4, 2020 Posted April 4, 2020 (edited) Allen hasn’t proven he’s a franchise QB yet and there are obviously flaws to his game. He might continue to improve and be one of the best QBs in the league for a long time. Or maybe we’re looking for a new QB in a few years. Either way, I’m just along for the ride. Edited April 4, 2020 by Bangarang 8
Billl Posted April 4, 2020 Posted April 4, 2020 2 hours ago, njbuff said: Darnold and Mayfield are in the same boat as Allen, but Allen CLEARLY has the best support system by a country mile when compared to the other two. Wentz was on his way to an MVP before getting injured in 2017. Dak has proven to be a game manager and is NOT worth the big contract he will get. Ok, maybe a little better than a game manager, but replaceable. Goff went to a SB and can be good, but the talent around him is eroding a little bit. Dak is replaceable? He just threw for 10 more TDs and nearly 2000 yards more than Allen while completing over 65% of his passes and runs just as well as Josh. He also never gets hurt. 3
Bangarang Posted April 4, 2020 Posted April 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Billl said: Dak is replaceable? He just threw for 10 more TDs and nearly 2000 yards more than Allen while completing over 65% of his passes and runs just as well as Josh. He also never gets hurt. Isn’t it hilarious how people here talk about other QBs compared to Allen? 3
JaCrispy Posted April 4, 2020 Posted April 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Bangarang said: Isn’t it hilarious how people here talk about other QBs compared to Allen? I have noticed as well...very illuminating- almost like Josh is a blood relative... 2
Thurman#1 Posted April 4, 2020 Posted April 4, 2020 4 hours ago, BuffaloBills1998 said: I don’t get the hate that Josh Allen gets around here. Please. This is not hate. Beyond a few trolls, hate for Allen doesn't exist here. Just because it's less than unconditional belief and faith absolutely does not mean it's hate. 4
BigBillsFan Posted April 4, 2020 Posted April 4, 2020 1 hour ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said: is your resume supposed to give your opinion more weight than others! I know a lot of 4-Star Generals who are dumb as ****. I have eyes too as well as many others here too, and I see a kid who is still tapping into his potential. He wasn’t groomed like all these other prodigy QBs yet he’s outplaying most of them. And for someone like you to say his football IQ is so low is nothing but biased eyes. You don’t work with him, coach him, or even know him. In fact, your bias and thumping of your chest says more about your insecurities than Allen. He's just saying he has perspective, not that he is more valuable. Saying his football IQ is low is not biased, it's his view-point. What you could do if you weren't so biased yourself is maybe ask him "why do you think he has a low IQ?" Then be patient and make a reasonable response. 5
JaCrispy Posted April 4, 2020 Posted April 4, 2020 (edited) What worried me most about Allen is that when the pressure grew in that Texans games, the worse he got...he’s gotta prove he can handle stressful situations and not flake out like he did...it was embarrassing to watch...and is not how a franchise QB responds... Edited April 4, 2020 by JaCrispy 4 2
BuffaloBills1998 Posted April 4, 2020 Author Posted April 4, 2020 21 minutes ago, Dopey said: https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2019/3/1/18242791/josh-allen-nfl-draft-2019-jacksonville-jaguars-kentucky-scouting-report-film-breakdown-edge I’m sorry I thought he was referring to Gardner for some reason. I didn’t hear much about Allen in Jax 1
papazoid Posted April 4, 2020 Posted April 4, 2020 i'd say less than 1% "HATE" him..... by all statistical measures he's not in the Top 20 of nfl qb's he has weaknesses.....therefore, he gets some criticism criticism does not equal hate 7
Phil The Thrill Posted April 4, 2020 Posted April 4, 2020 4 hours ago, BuffaloBills1998 said: Trust me I like Reich as much as the next fan. But he was in no way a starting QB, both Carolina and The Jets found that out the hard way. Great teammate and probably the best back up that ever played the game, but was a horrible starter. If the NFL had a Hall Of Fame for back ups he’d probably be a first ballot lol The Bills found that out in Super Bowl 27 as well. To be fair, by the time Reich went to Carolina he was 34 and on the downside of this career. I think his career as starter might have been a little different if they traded him in 1990 or 1991. But still I don’t think he ever would’ve been as good as Kelly
thebandit27 Posted April 4, 2020 Posted April 4, 2020 42 minutes ago, Billl said: Dak is replaceable? He just threw for 10 more TDs and nearly 2000 yards more than Allen while completing over 65% of his passes and runs just as well as Josh. He also never gets hurt. You know what would be nice? If somehow the two were put up against each other in a nationally televised game, where each had to face a top-10 defense. Then we could see which one of them had the best game of his career and which one turned the ball over twice and needed a garbage time score to crest 7 points. If only... ...wait... 5
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