Rosenthal: True QB value rankings from 1-35

[Johnnycage46]

8 minutes ago, BigBillsFan said:

 

I think the 139 yards on 25 attempts with 1 TD and 1 INT is what we focus on. Being a top QB means having a good game against better defenses.

 

If the new measure is the other defense was really good so therefore he's fine is not a standard at all.

 

On the other hand all QBs have bad games 1-2 times a year and everyone should have that attitude. But he played horrible that game.

 

The only reason we won that game is Hodges threw 4 INTs and played like garbage. If you think the score would have been 17-10 with Ben in there then you realize they couldn't score with inferior talent at QB and it's more of a reflection of turn-overs than anything Allen did. Pitt scored 10 points 3 games in a row. They were garbage on offense.

 

 

You should have had a 900 number in the 90's and hung out with Ms. Cleo as mind-reading is certainly a trait of people who blindly defend poor play. I notice the same traits as the Allen is a divinity crowd liking each other posts, but you seem to miss that part in your Vulcan mind-meld with us upset, nervous fearful "she's going to leave me" fans.

 

Live long and prosper.

 

How do you know I didn't?

 

Also, good self awareness on outing yourself as one of the malcontents.

 

May the Force Be With You (never much of a Star Trek guy...seemed super nerdy to me)

10 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

 

I like Allen and the only position I have is that he needs to continue improving. I’m pretty sure nobody would disagree with that. 

 

Who is upset? Honestly, I don’t even know what you’re rambling about. 

I guess you are?  I don't even know who you are and never mentioned you in my post...so, not sure.  And I don't believe the post of mine that you latched onto like a lamprey qualifies as "rambling".

 

Carry on.

[Bangarang]

9 minutes ago, Johnnycage46 said:

I guess you are? 

 

Wrong

 

9 minutes ago, Johnnycage46 said:

 

I don't even know who you are and never mentioned you in my post...so, not sure.  And I don't believe the post of mine that you latched onto like a lamprey qualifies as "rambling".

 

Carry on.

You never mentioned me but you felt the need to introduce yourself into a discussion I was involved in and take indirect shots at me. Don’t cower away now just because I called you out on it. 
 

If you disagree with me then come have a seat at the adult table and we can discuss it. If you’d rather lurk in the shadows, take shots and then run away then I guess that’s also an option. Whichever you prefer I suppose.

[Johnnycage46]

7 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

 

Wrong

 

You never mentioned me but you felt the need to introduce yourself into a discussion I was involved in and take indirect shots at me. Don’t cower away now just because I called you out on it. 
 

If you disagree with me then come have a seat at the adult table and we can discuss it. If you’d rather lurk in the shadows, take shots and then run away then I guess that’s also an option. Whichever you prefer I suppose.

 

So what would you like to discuss bud?  I'm all for adult tables (whatever that is).

 

[BigBillsFan]

16 minutes ago, Johnnycage46 said:

 

How do you know I didn't?

 

Also, good self awareness on outing yourself as one of the malcontents.

 

May the Force Be With You (never much of a Star Trek guy...seemed super nerdy to me)

I guess you are?  I don't even know who you are and never mentioned you in my post...so, not sure.  And I don't believe the post of mine that you latched onto like a lamprey qualifies as "rambling".

 

Carry on.

 

At least you have a good sense of humor. I appreciate that.

 

But you see I was pointing out the hypocrisy of using labels. You can't claim people are "malcontents" without proof. If a person says Allen struggles, he's not a complete QB, they aren't malcontents. That's just a lazy weak way of insulting people.

 

And everything you accuse "malcontents" of I could accuse you part of the Little Miss Sunshine Group (formerly called the Village People) that does that tribal pow-pow around arguments rather than dispel them. They have their rituals as one shaman uses mind-reading, then the witch doctor curses them as wanting Allen to fail, and then the proud scouts scream HATER!

 

I mean it's dumb. Imagine if a "malcontent" inverted that logic the same way.
"What you don't like good QB play? You want the Bills to fail!!!"
"You hate the Bills because you love Josh Allen!"

"The reason why Allen apologists act out in such scared, fearful ways is deep down inside they are afraid the Bills aren't ready to play teams above .500 and have a decent chance so instead they unleash their venom on the objective fans"

This is lazy and dishonest arguing. It's what I expect from my 8 yr old.

 

And then when they are all done they just say "Just sayin" which is equivalent of flipping someone off and then getting offended if there is a reply.

 

[Johnnycage46]

1 minute ago, BigBillsFan said:

 

At least you have a good sense of humor. I appreciate that.

 

But you see I was pointing out the hypocrisy of using labels. You can't claim people are "malcontents" without proof. If a person says Allen struggles, he's not a complete QB, they aren't malcontents. That's just a lazy weak way of insulting people.

 

And everything you accuse "malcontents" of I could accuse you part of the Little Miss Sunshine Group (formerly called the Village People) that does that tribal pow-pow around arguments rather than dispel them. They have their rituals as one shaman uses mind-reading, then the witch doctor curses them as wanting Allen to fail, and then the proud scouts scream HATER!

 

I mean it's dumb. Imagine if a "malcontent" inverted that logic the same way.
"What you don't like good QB play? You want the Bills to fail!!!"
"You hate the Bills because you love Josh Allen!"

"The reason why Allen apologists act out in such scared, fearful ways is deep down inside they are afraid the Bills aren't ready to play teams above .500 and have a decent chance so instead they unleash their venom on the objective fans"

This is lazy and dishonest arguing. It's what I expect from my 8 yr old.

 

And then when they are all done they just say "Just sayin" which is equivalent of flipping someone off and then getting offended if there is a reply.

 

 

I call the construction worker!!

 

I agree with you.  There are camps of thought all over this landscape.  Not fair on my part to paint with such a broad brush.  

 

But at least I didn't say "just sayin"!!!

[Billl]

On 4/16/2020 at 6:44 PM, FLFan said:

Any ranking that has Gardner Minshew ahead of Allen, in fact not in the bottom feeder category, is mortally flawed from the jump.  What an idiot.  

If Joe Burrow starts 12 games next year and throws for 3300 yards, 21 TDs and 6 INTs, he will exceed expectations.  Of course Minshew is above Allen.  He’s way ahead of Allen.  

[Billl]

10 hours ago, Bangarang said:

Honestly, I’m so tired of hearing about how our QBs are hard working or good people.
 

The only thing that matters to me is how good they are on Sundays. 

He’s literally said he’d rather be good at playing football than bad at playing football.  What more do you need?

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

When factoring age and ability the only QB's I would take over Allen are Mahomes, Wilson and Watson.  Would almost throw Murray in there too. But would leave it at those three for now. This is a scenario where I am a GM that is looking for a franchise QB for the next 10 years.

Edited April 18, 2020 by Sammy Watkins' Rib

[Yav]

11 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

139 yards passing with 1 td and 1 int is a wow game?  We won that game because of our defense and Duck throwing ducks (?).  
 

physical talent, he’s top 10 without a doubt.  But in terms of production, he’s kinda where he should be.  He is a game manager who is capable of explosive plays.  Next step is being maddeningly consistent.  He’s got a bunch of weapons now so it will be cool to see if he gets there.

With all due respect, this is a very hot, skip bayless type take.  “How many Super Bowls has Pat Mahomes won? Just 1?  And he’s been in the league 3 years?  I rest my case.  Overrated!!!”

Josh Allen is the only qb in the nfl that works hard and cares about winning.  Facts.  

Dude wasn’t even MVP of that game, but sure you can have you opinion, but in the fashion of this board I should call you names and tell you how dumb you are for not agreeing with me....but I realize I’m better than that and you can think he’s top 5 all you want he’s not in my top 5 or 6

11 hours ago, billrooter said:

Wow, first up I said what are you smoking crack (was trying to be funny) never called you a crackhead though. You lived in KC for 12 years, so whats your point Mahomes career stats 65.9 career completion percentage 76 tds and 18 interceptions and 9,412 yards, sorry he doesn't pass your genius eye test.

He under throws the balm to the best skill position players in the game, doesn’t take a genius to see that, but hey cool story bro, I guess you’re like all the rest on here and can’t handle

someone with a different opinion. 
 

good day.

[MJS]

2 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Steelers game was way bigger than Cowboys. They wanted to win in Dallas on Thanksgiving, they NEEDED to win in Pitt.

Hmm, I disagree. I think the Cowboys game was the biggest game of this regime and probably the most meaningful game of the past decade for the Bills. Big stage, big underdog (for no reason), and the Cowboys have some serious firepower on offense. And we creamed them.

 

I don't agree that the Bills needed the Pittsburgh game. There were plenty of scenarios to get in to the playoffs without that win. The Steelers went 8-8 and the Bills went 10-6, but sat their starters week 17.

 

Plus, I think it's more meaningful to beat Dak, Elliot, and Cooper than it is to beat the crap the Steelers had to put out there on offense with Big Ben hurt and their stars gone (Brown and Bell).

[Motor26]

12 minutes ago, MJS said:

Hmm, I disagree. I think the Cowboys game was the biggest game of this regime and probably the most meaningful game of the past decade for the Bills. Big stage, big underdog (for no reason), and the Cowboys have some serious firepower on offense. And we creamed them.

 

I don't agree that the Bills needed the Pittsburgh game. There were plenty of scenarios to get in to the playoffs without that win. The Steelers went 8-8 and the Bills went 10-6, but sat their starters week 17.

 

Plus, I think it's more meaningful to beat Dak, Elliot, and Cooper than it is to beat the crap the Steelers had to put out there on offense with Big Ben hurt and their stars gone (Brown and Bell).

Cowboys game was them showing they can play on the big stage. In Jerry’s world, on thanksgiving. Pittsburgh clinched the playoffs. 

[MJS]

2 minutes ago, Motor26 said:

Cowboys game was them showing they can play on the big stage. In Jerry’s world, on thanksgiving. Pittsburgh clinched the playoffs. 

Yeah, they were both important games for sure.

[GoBills808]

26 minutes ago, MJS said:

Hmm, I disagree. I think the Cowboys game was the biggest game of this regime and probably the most meaningful game of the past decade for the Bills. Big stage, big underdog (for no reason), and the Cowboys have some serious firepower on offense. And we creamed them.

 

I don't agree that the Bills needed the Pittsburgh game. There were plenty of scenarios to get in to the playoffs without that win. The Steelers went 8-8 and the Bills went 10-6, but sat their starters week 17.

 

Plus, I think it's more meaningful to beat Dak, Elliot, and Cooper than it is to beat the crap the Steelers had to put out there on offense with Big Ben hurt and their stars gone (Brown and Bell).

I looked at the Cowboys game like the Vikings game tbh; we were big underdogs who dropped a flashy performance, got the recognition but it not significant...against the Steelers there was no sneaking up on anyone anymore. It was for the playoffs, two teams with phenomenal defenses, iirc the way the guys acted after beating Pitt you could tell that was the game that told them they'd arrived as legit.

[GunnerBill]

4 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

I looked at the Cowboys game like the Vikings game tbh; we were big underdogs who dropped a flashy performance, got the recognition but it not significant...against the Steelers there was no sneaking up on anyone anymore. It was for the playoffs, two teams with phenomenal defenses, iirc the way the guys acted after beating Pitt you could tell that was the game that told them they'd arrived as legit.

 

I think the reaction was more that they knew it clinched the playoffs with a couple of weeks to spare. They were both big wins but I do kind of side with the Dallas win. Had we lost that game there was still a route through Pittsburgh and the Jets to 10 but we were walking a tight rope a little bit with Baltimore and New England still to play. Once they beat Dallas it opened so many more doors to me. They could have dropped 3, beat the Jets and still made it after that. I thought he we were making the playoffs all year. Ed's strip sack of Dak was pretty much the moment I knew we were making it. 

[billrooter]

On 4/16/2020 at 7:40 PM, Yav said:

I just don’t like him. He continues to under throw Hill and Hill adjusts and makes great catches. Sure he won the SB but wasn’t the MVP, sorry I’m just not that impressed. I would take Brees, Brady, Rodgers, Rivers and Wilson over him. He’s not in the top 5. I also like Watson over him.

  I do agree with one thing in here Yav, he should have never been the MVP in the super bowl he played like crap, that should have been Damien Williams.

[C.Biscuit97]

47 minutes ago, billrooter said:

  I do agree with one thing in here Yav, he should have never been the MVP in the super bowl he played like crap, that should have been Damien Williams.

Mahomes helped put up 31 points and threw for 286 (More than any game for Allen in his career) and 2 tds against the best defense in the nfl.  In the SB after trailing all game.  And some people consider that playing “like crap” for him.  So some of you might need to forgive some posters for not going crazy for 131 passing yards, 17 points, and a 65 qb rating against the Steelers and Duck’s 4 ints.

 

and the Williams is MVP crowd is funny.  The only reason Williams is successful is because the 49ers go all out stopping a generational qb.  Again, who had 286 yards and 3 tds “playing like crap.”  Mahomes is the MVP.

[Billl]

5 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Mahomes helped put up 31 points and threw for 286 (More than any game for Allen in his career) and 2 tds against the best defense in the nfl.  In the SB after trailing all game.  And some people consider that playing “like crap” for him.  So some of you might need to forgive some posters for not going crazy for 131 passing yards, 17 points, and a 65 qb rating against the Steelers and Duck’s 4 ints.

 

and the Williams is MVP crowd is funny.  The only reason Williams is successful is because the 49ers go all out stopping a generational qb.  Again, who had 286 yards and 3 tds “playing like crap.”  Mahomes is the MVP.

Mahomes deserved the MVP for sure.  In addition to his 3 TDs, he threw what should have been another easy one, but Williams ran a bad route and couldn’t find the ball.  He also had 44 yards rushing on 6 carries for 330 yards of total offense.  If Mahomes didn’t get it, it should have gone to Chris Jones who got his hands on about 5 passes in the 4th quarter.

 

The guy is special.  Even his “bad” games are great.

[billrooter]

18 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Mahomes helped put up 31 points and threw for 286 (More than any game for Allen in his career) and 2 tds against the best defense in the nfl.  In the SB after trailing all game.  And some people consider that playing “like crap” for him.  So some of you might need to forgive some posters for not going crazy for 131 passing yards, 17 points, and a 65 qb rating against the Steelers and Duck’s 4 ints.

 

and the Williams is MVP crowd is funny.  The only reason Williams is successful is because the 49ers go all out stopping a generational qb.  Again, who had 286 yards and 3 tds “playing like crap.”  Mahomes is the MVP.

 

18 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Mahomes helped put up 31 points and threw for 286 (More than any game for Allen in his career) and 2 tds against the best defense in the nfl.  In the SB after trailing all game.  And some people consider that playing “like crap” for him.  So some of you might need to forgive some posters for not going crazy for 131 passing yards, 17 points, and a 65 qb rating against the Steelers and Duck’s 4 ints.

 

and the Williams is MVP crowd is funny.  The only reason Williams is successful is because the 49ers go all out stopping a generational qb.  Again, who had 286 yards and 3 tds “playing like crap.”  Mahomes is the MVP.

The Williams MVP crowd is factual, not funny. It is called Super Bowl Game. Mahomes had three crappy quarters and a great 4th quarter. He had two passing tds, two ints. and a rushing touchdown. Williams had 104 yards rushing while averaging six a carry and a td, 29 yards receiving and a td. To me Williams should have been the MVP.. you can't change my mind but you have an opinion and thats great. The discussion on Allens great Steelers game, not sure why that is included as I didn't think he had a great game?

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

13 hours ago, Billl said:

If Joe Burrow starts 12 games next year and throws for 3300 yards, 21 TDs and 6 INTs, he will exceed expectations.  Of course Minshew is above Allen.  He’s way ahead of Allen.  

 

So if you are looking for a franchise guy and have the option of Minshew or Allen for the rest of their careers you are taking Minshew? 

 

Sure Minshew had a good season last year. But what is his ceiling? Remember, Mayfield was rookie of the year and the consensus #1 QB from that draft class. Now we are not even sure he is the 4th best QB from that class.  Things can change quickly in the NFL.

[C.Biscuit97]

54 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

So if you are looking for a franchise guy and have the option of Minshew or Allen for the rest of their careers you are taking Minshew? 

 

Sure Minshew had a good season last year. But what is his ceiling? Remember, Mayfield was rookie of the year and the consensus #1 QB from that draft class. Now we are not even sure he is the 4th best QB from that class.  Things can change quickly in the NFL.

But that’s why guys like Allen are both awesome and frustrating at the same time.  Potential.  Again, Allen has never been a really dominant player on any level of football.  He has moments and all the physical tools.  But this league is filled with guys with physical tools who never amount to anything. Take Fitz.  How many guys have better physical tools?  Like 99%?  Yet Fitz has had a better career than like 90% of them. 
 

I would take Allen over Minshew but would I be shocked if Minshew became the better overall qb? Not all.  I think it’s really extremely rare for a qb to just suddenly became a better player at the nfl than he has been at any level.  

1 hour ago, billrooter said:

 

The Williams MVP crowd is factual, not funny. It is called Super Bowl Game. Mahomes had three crappy quarters and a great 4th quarter. He had two passing tds, two ints. and a rushing touchdown. Williams had 104 yards rushing while averaging six a carry and a td, 29 yards receiving and a td. To me Williams should have been the MVP.. you can't change my mind but you have an opinion and thats great. The discussion on Allens great Steelers game, not sure why that is included as I didn't think he had a great game?

I completely disagree and I’m happy that Mahomes won it.  Mahomes is steroids to a rb.  Everything Williams achieved is because of Mahomes.  So I’m going with the guy who opened things up for his rb, had over 300 totals yards, and 3 tds.  But agree to disagree.