Bangarang Posted April 17, 2020 Posted April 17, 2020 37 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: You mean like beating Dallas on Thanksgiving or topping the Steelers on the road on national TV to clinch a playoff berth? Yeah, I'd love to see that. Allen’s game against the Steelers wow’d you? 2
billrooter Posted April 17, 2020 Posted April 17, 2020 32 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Mark Sanchez had 9 game winning drives in a 2 year period. Without context, the stat kinda sucks. Qbs that play on teams with really good defenses have more a chance for GWDs. It could be argued with more consistent offense and our easy schedule, there were a bunch of games that could have been over before the 4th quarter. and Jackson has 16 more passing tds than Allen. Was not comparing him to Jackson, after last season and hopefully only up till this point there is no comparison, only saying they should factor one of his biggest positives into the equation as well. Josh Allens passer rating by quarter 71, 87.3, 76.2, and 102.7, tells me three things he needs to get alot more consistent, plays better when in the flow of the game and he is typically much better when the game is on the line. Is that better for context? 1
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 17, 2020 Posted April 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, billrooter said: Was not comparing him to Jackson, after last season and hopefully only up till this point there is no comparison, only saying they should factor one of his biggest positives into the equation as well. Josh Allens passer rating by quarter 71, 87.3, 76.2, and 102.7, tells me three things he needs to get alot more consistent, plays better when in the flow of the game and he is typically much better when the game is on the line. Is that better for context? Good post. I like it. I would like to see a breakdown of it compared to other qbs for context though. 1
billrooter Posted April 17, 2020 Posted April 17, 2020 Just now, C.Biscuit97 said: Good post. I like it. I would like to see a breakdown of it compared to other qbs for context though. LOL, I had a hard enough time configuring that, I am not tech savvy at all. Maybe the Mahomes fan can?
PromoTheRobot Posted April 17, 2020 Posted April 17, 2020 50 minutes ago, Bangarang said: Allen’s game against the Steelers wow’d you? Yeah. A lesser QB would have crumpled under the pressure. Not every game is a work of art. All that matters is the W. But I get it. The goalposts keep moving for Allen. He reaches one benchmark, then it's "oh, but what about this?" 1
BigBillsFan Posted April 17, 2020 Posted April 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: Yeah. A lesser QB would have crumpled under the pressure. Not every game is a work of art. All that matters is the W. But I get it. The goalposts keep moving for Allen. He reaches one benchmark, then it's "oh, but what about this?" If the goalpost is to survive through a great defensive performance against an undrafted QB the world is upside down. Do you think he gets the "W" (as if QBs get Ws) if Big Ben played? Let me remind you he was 13-25 for 139 yards and Duck threw 4 INTs. If that's the goalpost than he's not a competent starter. 1
Bangarang Posted April 17, 2020 Posted April 17, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said: Yeah. A lesser QB would have crumpled under the pressure. Is that what your crystal ball told you? Quote Not every game is a work of art. All that matters is the W. But I get it. The goalposts keep moving for Allen. He reaches one benchmark, then it's "oh, but what about this?" What goalposts are you referring to? I can’t help but roll my eyes to anyone who was WOWd by a largely mediocre performance. Just seems like you’re trying too hard to convince yourself about how good Allen is. I’ve been wow’d by Allen quite a bit in 2 years and the Steelers game definitely wasn’t one of them. It was however a wow game for Tre White and the defense. Edited April 17, 2020 by Bangarang 2 1
2003Contenders Posted April 17, 2020 Posted April 17, 2020 Here is the thing that keeps getting over-looked by all of these "experts", especially the ones that more or less simply use stats to make their case rather than watching the games: Josh Allen is a throw-back QB. That is, he plays much more like the QBs from days past. Kenny Stabler comes to mind in terms of his playing style. Physically, Allen is as talented as any QB who has played in the league since Elway and Favre. Favre had the luxury of playing in a West Coast style offense with some of the greatest supporting coaches in the history of the league (Holmgren, Reid, Mooch, Gruden, etc.) for most of his career. Elway hit his stride in his final years with the likes of Fossil and Shanahan finally figuring out how to reign him in. Before that, Elway was largely an un-molded piece of clay, much like Josh is now. Josh Allen remains a polarizing QB -- and he entered the league as such. Classic scouts viewed him as a generational physical specimen, with many (Kiper, Simms and others) believing he was a justified 1st overall selection in the draft. The modern analytics guys preferred Mayfield and Rosen, who posted better numbers at the college level. After two seasons in the league, Allen's performances to date have justified both camps' evaluations. Josh has clearly shown the physical talent that the scouts raved about -- and, if anything, his mobility in particular has been an even better-than-advertised trait. Meanwhile, the lack of consistency and less-than-ideal accuracy have allowed the detractors to hang around in stride. The good news is that he HAS shown improvement during his short time in the league. Remember, the pre-injury versus the post-injury Josh Allen during his rookie season. Last year, remember the Josh Allen before the first Patriots game where he tried too often to play "hero ball" versus the guy after that game who normally took pretty good care of the ball. For the analytics guys, it is certainly worth noting the improvement in completion percentage that we saw from 2018 to 2019. The biggest problem for him last year was actually being unable to connect consistently on the deep ball, which he has reportedly been working on since the season ended. I doubt that he will ever be a pinpoint passer a la Drew Brees who consistently connects on 70% of his passes. However, with the other things he brings to the table, Josh Allen will play at a high level in this league if he can bump that completion percentage up to around 60% and connect more regularly on the deep passes. One last point I wanted to make... and it has to do with what is actually being asked of Allen. Like Allen, a throw-back QB, Sean McD is also a throw-back coach. He ascribes to the old tried-and-true mantra of building your team with a strong defense, pounding the ball on offense, keeping the score close, and asking the offense to make just enough plays in the 4th quarter to pull it out. I doubt that we will ever see Josh participate in very many shoot-outs, as that simply is not the style of play that McD prefers. So those grumbling about Josh having yet to pass for 300 yards in a game have to take this into consideration. That said, I would love to see Josh show that he CAN win such a game if placed in the position of having to do so. 1
Don Otreply Posted April 17, 2020 Posted April 17, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said: If we were the Pats, our board would look exactly like a Pats board where we defended everything our team did and say it was fake news! And everyone is just jealous of us. Sad but true! But did you see how clean JP Losman made Buffalo that one time! When I was a youngster I thought that way... Edited April 17, 2020 by Don Otreply
GoBills808 Posted April 17, 2020 Posted April 17, 2020 4 hours ago, Bangarang said: Is that what your crystal ball told you? What goalposts are you referring to? I can’t help but roll my eyes to anyone who was WOWd by a largely mediocre performance. Just seems like you’re trying too hard to convince yourself about how good Allen is. I’ve been wow’d by Allen quite a bit in 2 years and the Steelers game definitely wasn’t one of them. It was however a wow game for Tre White and the defense. If you weren’t wowed by the whole team against Pitt, Allen included, in that situation...I don’t know what to tell you. That game was massive.
Bangarang Posted April 17, 2020 Posted April 17, 2020 26 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: If you weren’t wowed by the whole team against Pitt, Allen included, in that situation...I don’t know what to tell you. That game was massive. The game was a big one but Allen’s performance wasn’t wow worthy to me. Thanksgiving was much more of a wow moment for Allen.
GoBills808 Posted April 17, 2020 Posted April 17, 2020 45 minutes ago, Bangarang said: The game was a big one but Allen’s performance wasn’t wow worthy to me. Thanksgiving was much more of a wow moment for Allen. Interesting...so the fact that the Cowboys had injuries to both safeties, Jaylon Smith, and LVE who didn't even play as opposed to a healthy and far superior Steelers defense that was playing lights out at that point means nothing to you vis a vis Allen's performances, respectively.
Bangarang Posted April 18, 2020 Posted April 18, 2020 1 hour ago, GoBills808 said: Interesting...so the fact that the Cowboys had injuries to both safeties, Jaylon Smith, and LVE who didn't even play as opposed to a healthy and far superior Steelers defense that was playing lights out at that point means nothing to you vis a vis Allen's performances, respectively. Being mediocre against a good defense doesn’t wow me. Carving up a good Cowboy’s defense, albeit with some injuries, and playing great on what I would consider a much bigger stage does wow me.
Johnnycage46 Posted April 18, 2020 Posted April 18, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, GoBills808 said: Interesting...so the fact that the Cowboys had injuries to both safeties, Jaylon Smith, and LVE who didn't even play as opposed to a healthy and far superior Steelers defense that was playing lights out at that point means nothing to you vis a vis Allen's performances, respectively. It's hard to argue with people who have already resigned themselves to a position. There are many "fans" here that will never like Allen, plain and simple. Not sure what it is. They all "like" each others posts so it's easy to spot them lol. Some people just want to be upset as fans; maybe because it's all they have known during their fanhood and might be nervous to give in and just enjoy the ride for fear of getting hurt again. Who knows! Edited April 18, 2020 by Johnnycage46
GoBills808 Posted April 18, 2020 Posted April 18, 2020 3 minutes ago, Bangarang said: Being mediocre against a good defense doesn’t wow me. Carving up a good Cowboy’s defense, albeit with some injuries, and playing great on what I would consider a much bigger stage does wow me. Steelers game was way bigger than Cowboys. They wanted to win in Dallas on Thanksgiving, they NEEDED to win in Pitt.
Bangarang Posted April 18, 2020 Posted April 18, 2020 Just now, Johnnycage46 said: It's hard to argue with people who have already resigned themselves to a position. There are many "fans" here that will never like Allen, plain and simple. Not sure what it is. They all "like" each others' posts so its easy to spot them lol. I like Allen and the only position I have is that he needs to continue improving. I’m pretty sure nobody would disagree with that. Just now, Johnnycage46 said: Some people just want to be upset as fans; maybe because its all they have known during their fanhood and might be nervous to give in and just enjoy the ride for fear of getting hurt again. Who knows! Who is upset? Honestly, I don’t even know what you’re rambling about.
BigBillsFan Posted April 18, 2020 Posted April 18, 2020 1 hour ago, GoBills808 said: Interesting...so the fact that the Cowboys had injuries to both safeties, Jaylon Smith, and LVE who didn't even play as opposed to a healthy and far superior Steelers defense that was playing lights out at that point means nothing to you vis a vis Allen's performances, respectively. I think the 139 yards on 25 attempts with 1 TD and 1 INT is what we focus on. Being a top QB means having a good game against better defenses. If the new measure is the other defense was really good so therefore he's fine is not a standard at all. On the other hand all QBs have bad games 1-2 times a year and everyone should have that attitude. But he played horrible that game. The only reason we won that game is Hodges threw 4 INTs and played like garbage. If you think the score would have been 17-10 with Ben in there then you realize they couldn't score with inferior talent at QB and it's more of a reflection of turn-overs than anything Allen did. Pitt scored 10 points 3 games in a row. They were garbage on offense. 1 minute ago, Johnnycage46 said: Some people just want to be upset as fans; maybe because its all they have known during their fanhood and might be nervous to give in and just enjoy the ride for fear of getting hurt again. Who knows! You should have had a 900 number in the 90's and hung out with Ms. Cleo as mind-reading is certainly a trait of people who blindly defend poor play. I notice the same traits as the Allen is a divinity crowd liking each other posts, but you seem to miss that part in your Vulcan mind-meld with us upset, nervous fearful "she's going to leave me" fans. Live long and prosper.
GoBills808 Posted April 18, 2020 Posted April 18, 2020 Just now, BigBillsFan said: I think the 139 yards on 25 attempts with 1 TD and 1 INT is what we focus on. Being a top QB means having a good game against better defenses. That's because you didn't watch the game lmao or you'd know that the INT bounced off both Beasley's hands, who dropped several passes that game 1
Bangarang Posted April 18, 2020 Posted April 18, 2020 4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Steelers game was way bigger than Cowboys. They wanted to win in Dallas on Thanksgiving, they NEEDED to win in Pitt. I disagree.
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