RB is a really GLARING need, right?

[TBBills]

This is how far RBs have fallen in the NFL...

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/07/10/with-peterson-gore-and-mccoy-unsigned-cam-newton-is-nfls-active-leader-in-rushing-tds/

With Peterson, Gore and McCoy unsigned, Cam Newton is NFL’s active leader in rushing TDs

[Don Otreply]

On 7/8/2021 at 3:47 PM, The_Ripster said:

Is it safe to say this season is a make or break year for the current backfield?

Assuming it is Singletary, Moss + Breida, would it be a failure if none of them come close to cracking 1000 yards?

 

No it won’t be a failure…, if when their numbers are called they achieve what is expected of them. Total yardage is not the number one metric for what the RB contribution is on this particular team, it is to; 1) move the chains, 2) protect the QB/ pass block, 3) score points when the opportunity presents itself. This teams offense is built around passing the ball, running the ball is a complimentary aspect to said passing game. Folk are over thinking this. 
 

Go Bills!!!

[boater]

Just an aside...

 

I'm a member of other boards where if you drag up an ancient thread you get the "Necromancer" badge. I have one myself.

 

Necromancer: generally used as a term to describe manipulation of death and the dead.

 

Somebody should get a badge for necromancing this thread.

[machine gun kelly]

Are you sure they didn’t write necrophiliac?  🤪🏈

 

I read the BN article yesterday about potential camp cuts, and they added Breida as one of the names.  I seriously doubt that will be the case as they need at least four on the roster, and it’s commonly known they want more speed.  The article is on the main board from yesterday for anyone interested.

[Chandler#81]

Josh Allen rushed for 30 1st Downs last season while adding 400 rushing yards and 8 TDs on the ground, in the least rushing season of his career to date. 

 

Just because he’s an enigma, doesn’t mean we have a rushing issue.

[PrimeTime101]

8 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

Josh Allen rushed for 30 1st Downs last season while adding 400 rushing yards and 8 TDs on the ground, in the least rushing season of his career to date. 

 

Just because he’s an enigma, doesn’t mean we have a rushing issue.

and that's why a true 1000 yard rusher would be so dangerous on this team. The threat of the rush is what makes Josh more dangerous. The threat of having a proven 1000 yard rusher on this team would put more fear into teams. This does not mean we run more.. no no no... It means the threat is there and if you don't respect that threat, then he will blow up big yardage on you. Making Allen's job that much easier.

[The_Ripster]

On 7/11/2021 at 3:13 PM, PrimeTime101 said:

and that's why a true 1000 yard rusher would be so dangerous on this team. The threat of the rush is what makes Josh more dangerous. The threat of having a proven 1000 yard rusher on this team would put more fear into teams. This does not mean we run more.. no no no... It means the threat is there and if you don't respect that threat, then he will blow up big yardage on you. Making Allen's job that much easier.

I agree with this perspective.  Unfortunately many will say it's the o-line and it wouldn't matter who was rushing until that is addressed.

[Augie]

11 minutes ago, The_Ripster said:

I agree with this perspective.  Unfortunately many will say it's the o-line and it wouldn't matter who was rushing until that is addressed.

 

Of course the RB’s matter! I agree. The OLine also matters. Do you agree? 

 

Singletary has a career 4.8 YPC average. He can play in the NFL. If you watched the games last year you might have noticed there was not much room to advance the ball. That was obvious to casual observers.  It seemed like we gave up even trying, so let’s include the coaching staff on the list of blame. 

 

Go Bills! 

[The_Ripster]

34 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Of course the RB’s matter! I agree. The OLine also matters. Do you agree? 

 

Singletary has a career 4.8 YPC average. He can play in the NFL. If you watched the games last year you might have noticed there was not much room to advance the ball. That was obvious to casual observers.  It seemed like we gave up even trying, so let’s include the coaching staff on the list of blame. 

 

Go Bills! 

I agree, Go Bills!

 

[BillMafia716ix]

I wouldn’t say it’s a glaring need. Just a few years ago we were complaining about Singletary not getting the ball enough vs. the Texans in the playoffs. The concern with the run game is Daboll lack of commitment to keeping a balanced attack. 

[Maynard]

I’m okay with what we have for this year. Thought Moss was really coming on before the injury. I’m willing to give Singletary another chance as well. He seems to have been really putting in the work in the off-season. Whether that translates to the field remains to be seen. I also like the element of speed that Matt brings to the table. 

[Thurman#1]

On 4/7/2020 at 1:42 AM, maryland-bills-fan said:

Well, a guy who is a better runner improves our team.  Having another weapon (pass receiving RB) is always a good idea. 

 

 

 

Not necessarily. 

 

A better player would improve the team. Running is only part of the job description. The Bills clearly put a very high value on pass blocking, and for obvious and good reason.

 

And yeah, getting a better player at any position would be a good thing. 

 

But our RBs are already good, as with most positions on this team, basically. It's absolutely NOT a glaring need, as the thread headline says it is.

[snowbelt_subie]

26 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Not necessarily. 

 

A better player would improve the team. Running is only part of the job description. The Bills clearly put a very high value on pass blocking, and for obvious and good reason.

 

And yeah, getting a better player at any position would be a good thing. 

 

But our RBs are already good, as with most positions on this team, basically. It's absolutely NOT a glaring need, as the thread headline says it is.

 

 

Yea I think the rbs are adequate it's more the oline and offensive scheme more than anything.

 

The bills would be even harder to defend if they had some balance. Teams with exotic blitzs like kc and Baltimore wouldn't be able to just pin their ears back with a run threat they would have to honor.

[Richard Noggin]

3 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

But our RBs are already good, as with most positions on this team, basically. It's absolutely NOT a glaring need, as the thread headline says it is.

To be fair, Thurm, this thread headline was written (as a question) back in March of 2020. The cupboards were even less stocked then. Difficult to argue that.

 

I've got no issue with the RB committee approach (which we assume would include Moss, Singletary, and either Breida or Williams or whomever), but I don't think this staff favors keeping more than 2 ACTUAL RBs active most gamedays (because Taiwan Jones). Maybe that changes. If we transition to a more zone-heavy scheme, as we saw happen a bit last season, maybe Breida becomes a more valued contributor? 

 

Who necromanced this thread again anyways? Because I don't even think the premise still holds water going into the 2021 season. Would a more dynamic player help the offense? Of course. Is it a glaring need? No. Obviously.

Edited July 28, 2021 by Richard Noggin

[Thurman#1]

On 7/12/2021 at 4:13 AM, PrimeTime101 said:

and that's why a true 1000 yard rusher would be so dangerous on this team. The threat of the rush is what makes Josh more dangerous. The threat of having a proven 1000 yard rusher on this team would put more fear into teams. This does not mean we run more.. no no no... It means the threat is there and if you don't respect that threat, then he will blow up big yardage on you. Making Allen's job that much easier.

 

You're missing the point. Two guys running for a total of 1500 is just as "dangerous" whether both run for 750 or one runs for 1000 and the other for 500. It doesn't matter. There's absolutely zero variation in "fear" depending on whether a guy reaches 1000 or not. Teams fear based on effectiveness, and you can be very effective with or without reaching some totally irrelevant milestone that will be based mostly on carries anyway.

 

Yes, good running makes Allen's job easier. No, not having someone reach your irrelevant milestone doesn't mean the running isn't good.

 

 

 

9 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

To be fair, Thurm, this thread headline was written (as a question) back in March of 2020. The cupboards were even less stocked then. Difficult to argue that.

 

I've got no issue with the RB committee approach (which we assume would include Moss, Singletary, and either Breida or Williams or whomever), but I don't think this staff favors keeping more than 2 ACTUAL RBs active most gamedays (because Taiwan Jones). Maybe that changes. If we transition to a more zone-heavy scheme, as we saw happen a bit last season, maybe Breida becomes a more valued contributor? 

 

Who necromanced this thread again anyways? Because I don't even think the premise still holds water going into the 2021 season. Would a more dynamic player help the offense? Of course. Is it a glaring need? No. Obviously.

 

 

Ah, I see. Hadn't noticed that, and it does make a difference. But IMO even back them it wasn't a glaring need. 

Edited July 28, 2021 by Thurman#1

[The_Ripster]

2 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

You're missing the point. Two guys running for a total of 1500 is just as "dangerous" whether both run for 750 or one runs for 1000 and the other for 500. It doesn't matter. There's absolutely zero variation in "fear" depending on whether a guy reaches 1000 or not. Teams fear based on effectiveness, and you can be very effective with or without reaching some totally irrelevant milestone that will be based mostly on carries anyway.

 

Yes, good running makes Allen's job easier. No, not having someone reach your irrelevant milestone doesn't mean the running isn't good.

 

I disagree, you're missing the variable of receiving yardage. What if they both get 50 receptions and one gets 250 yards and the other back gets 400 yards?  In the modern NFL this is a huge differentiating factor among the really elite dudes and regular backs. Having a playmaker in the backfield that can break big plays whenever they catch the ball is a major upside and adds a dimension. 

Also, don't forget to track rushing attempts. Two 750 yard rushers doesn't mean the RB committee backfield is "dangerous" when it takes one guy 150 snaps to get 750 yards vs your second running back 200 snaps to get 750 yards. And there are other factors like when they are accumulating yardage. Ex. versus starters or vs second team D-Lines or important moments vs garbage time snaps. 

Teams respect the run based on effectiveness. Teams fear backs who can go for 75 yard touchdowns off a screen pass AND run efficient. Those guys are usually expensive though so most teams settle for 2 lesser backs who just run efficient or a bunch of backs with different skills. But that surely broadcasts the intentions of the offense based on personnel if the other team does their homework. 

I'm excited to see what happens in training camp. Singletary looks strong AF!

Go Bills!

[PrimeTime101]

3 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

You're missing the point. Two guys running for a total of 1500 is just as "dangerous" whether both run for 750 or one runs for 1000 and the other for 500. It doesn't matter. There's absolutely zero variation in "fear" depending on whether a guy reaches 1000 or not. Teams fear based on effectiveness, and you can be very effective with or without reaching some totally irrelevant milestone that will be based mostly on carries anyway.

 

Yes, good running makes Allen's job easier. No, not having someone reach your irrelevant milestone doesn't mean the running isn't good.

 

 

 

 

 

Ah, I see. Hadn't noticed that, and it does make a difference. But IMO even back them it wasn't a glaring need. 

guess i did thanks for clarification

[Richard Noggin]

13 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

Ah, I see. Hadn't noticed that [the thread was originated in March of 2020], and it does make a difference. But IMO even back them it wasn't a glaring need. 

Appreciate you sticking to your guns here.

 

The word "glaring" is likely too emphatic. But I'd argue that last season showed us that the lack of at least a threat of an explosive/effective running attack can eventually be exploited by DCs with enough time and talent (like those in the playoffs). So maybe it's less about the individual RBs, and more about the overall running game. 

 

Still, it matters. And we've seen examples of that repeatedly. The threat of balance is needed to keep defenses honest and off-balance just enough.

[Thurman#1]

11 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

Appreciate you sticking to your guns here.

 

The word "glaring" is likely too emphatic. But I'd argue that last season showed us that the lack of at least a threat of an explosive/effective running attack can eventually be exploited by DCs with enough time and talent (like those in the playoffs). So maybe it's less about the individual RBs, and more about the overall running game. 

 

Still, it matters. And we've seen examples of that repeatedly. The threat of balance is needed to keep defenses honest and off-balance just enough.

 

 

Agreed, it does matter. IMO most of the problem with the run game was in the line play, though. Beane has said the same thing.

 

And I also thought they were effective last year. Far from great, but effective. 4.4 and 4.3 YPC are pretty damn solid, especially when their distance before contact was one of the lowest in the league.

 

I think we're maybe getting pretty close here. See you around the boards.