Richard Noggin Posted March 28, 2020 Author Posted March 28, 2020 5 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: They drafted Devin in the 3rd round last season. That means he's supposed to be an impactful player. Investing another 2nd or 3rd at RB is just not good value. I would say it would only be a major concern if you have questions about Singletary. Edge is a far more premium position and they absolutely must address it considering the age/quality of the position. Beane has done a great job overall, but he's had some issues at RB. Looking around the league, teams are finding productive UDFA/late round RB's all over the place. Would that 2nd round EDGE guy, in this year's draft, be an impact prospect? Doesn't seem like 54 presents value at that position in 2020. You can possibly get a heck of an RB at 54, or even in the 3rd round if someone else falls into their laps in the 2nd. RB is generally only a worthwhile investment to a team looking to complete the puzzle. And I believe the Bills need to complete the offensive puzzle in 2020 and 2021. The next two years are the window. A developmental or backup DE doesn't move the needle as much this year. 1 2
LSHMEAB Posted March 28, 2020 Posted March 28, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said: Would that 2nd round EDGE guy, in this year's draft, be an impact prospect? Doesn't seem like 54 presents value at that position in 2020. Yeah. That is not good because we're facing a better QB lineup this season and that pass rush may become a real problem. And I'll be that guy; as much as I hate the resource allocation, I'm not convinced that Devin is quite the player some believe him to be. That's the only reason I wouldn't HATE drafting a RB early. Edited March 28, 2020 by LSHMEAB 1
Richard Noggin Posted March 28, 2020 Author Posted March 28, 2020 11 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: Yeah. That is not good because we're facing a better QB lineup this season and that pass rush may become a real problem. And I'll be that guy; as much as I hate the resource allocation, I'm not convinced that Devin is quite the player some believe him to be. That's the only reason I wouldn't HATE drafting a RB early. I'm coming at this from a similar perspective. Ordinarily I rage against investing much in the RB position. Truly. Pass rush is far more important. But then again, pass rush is most valuable when playing with a lead. And we're often reminded that scoring lots of points above all else is the best path to success in the modern NFL. DE should ideally be valued more highly in the draft. But what if the RBs available are just so much more impactful than the DEs available on Day Two? I mean, the guys from Wisconsin, LSU, FSU, Utah, etc. are really dynamic prospects. I don't think the (potentially) available DEs come close this year. The Bills offense needs another option at RB, whether Singletary is awesome or not. 1 3
maryland-bills-fan Posted March 28, 2020 Posted March 28, 2020 9 hours ago, OldTimer1960 said: What are you willing to trade to move up? The Bills’ 2nd and 3rd might get them from pick 24 of round 2 to pick 10 of round 2. DRAFT PICK # PICKED POINTS CASE1 CASE 2 CASE 3 CASE 4 ROUND 2 54 360 YES YES YES YES ROUND 3 86 160 YES YES x YES ROUND 4 118 58 x YES YES x ROUND 5 150 31 x x YES x #2 2021 #54? 180 x x x YES =========================================================================== We get: #38 #33 #45 #31 Move up= 16 21 9 23
maryland-bills-fan Posted March 28, 2020 Posted March 28, 2020 5 hours ago, GreggTX said: Yeldon isn't nearly as bad as some here assume and he played well when he got the chance. Oh and please don't blow a day 2 pick on a backup for Singletary when we still have such pressing needs at RT, RG, OLB, DE, outside CB and in the slot. I know we've signed FA's at those positions, but those guys are all backup caliber. We should be thinking more about getting good and great players now. We've had 2 decades of average already. Time to raise the bar. We are NOT looking for a backup for Singletary. We are looking to get ourselves into where todays NFL football is with respect to running backs AND for a team that should be planning a long run in the playoffs. You need a RB 1a and RB 1b. ... ... At #54 we can get that guy and likely he will be better than Singletary. (Yes, Virginia, there are running backs better than Singletary). 1
ghostwriter Posted March 28, 2020 Posted March 28, 2020 RB is absolutely a glaring need, but in my mind, there is no way that Taylor, Dobbins, CEH and Swift are all gone by the time we pick. Those four guys are freaks and one of them should absolutely be there for us when we pick. We should be golden. As much as I love Jonathan Taylor and wish for him to fall to us, there is no real need to trade up. There should be good value for us at 54, value that also fills a significant need. One of the top four will be there. 2 1
OldTimer1960 Posted March 28, 2020 Posted March 28, 2020 2 hours ago, maryland-bills-fan said: We are NOT looking for a backup for Singletary. We are looking to get ourselves into where todays NFL football is with respect to running backs AND for a team that should be planning a long run in the playoffs. You need a RB 1a and RB 1b. ... ... At #54 we can get that guy and likely he will be better than Singletary. (Yes, Virginia, there are running backs better than Singletary). I don’t think any of us are arguing that we’d choose RB over DE - given equivalent prospects available at DE and RB at 54. However, it doesn’t look like there will be equivalent DEs to the RBs that will likely be available then. It surprises me that some would be OK taking another WR in round 2, but would be upset over a RB to platoon with Singletary. Others have made this argument as well, but let’s say the Bills will run the ball 25 plays per game (probably slightly underestimated). If Singletary gets 15 of those, that leaves 10 carries for the 2nd back. That is far more touches than even Diggs will get at WR, let alone a WR4. I get it, there are some good RBs that have been found in 3rd-4th-5th rounds. But, look at where the Bills’ now pretty good WR group was drafted: Stefon Diggs round 5, John Brown round 3, Cole Beasley undrafted. Again, if there is a very good DE prospect at 54, then I would be on board to prioritize that over the RBs, but I don’t see a DE prospect that will likely be available that I would think would be comparable to Edwards-Helaire or Akers (or Taylor). With the same argument, I would prefer an equivalent talent at CB over the RBs. I haven’t yet looked as closely at CB as I did DE and RB, so maybe that position will have equivalent players to RB at 54. 1 2
maryland-bills-fan Posted March 28, 2020 Posted March 28, 2020 3 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said: I don’t think any of us are arguing that we’d choose RB over DE - given equivalent prospects available at DE and RB at 54. However, it doesn’t look like there will be equivalent DEs to the RBs that will likely be available then. It surprises me that some would be OK taking another WR in round 2, but would be upset over a RB to platoon with Singletary. Others have made this argument as well, but let’s say the Bills will run the ball 25 plays per game (probably slightly underestimated). If Singletary gets 15 of those, that leaves 10 carries for the 2nd back. That is far more touches than even Diggs will get at WR, let alone a WR4. I get it, there are some good RBs that have been found in 3rd-4th-5th rounds. But, look at where the Bills’ now pretty good WR group was drafted: Stefon Diggs round 5, John Brown round 3, Cole Beasley undrafted. Again, if there is a very good DE prospect at 54, then I would be on board to prioritize that over the RBs, but I don’t see a DE prospect that will likely be available that I would think would be comparable to Edwards-Helaire or Akers (or Taylor). With the same argument, I would prefer an equivalent talent at CB over the RBs. I haven’t yet looked as closely at CB as I did DE and RB, so maybe that position will have equivalent players to RB at 54. We can live if a CB goes down. We are dead if Singletary goes down. Beane filled most holes in the roster in FA because he felt he could get his second running back in the draft at #54. One of the top 5 should be there or one of the top 3 with a modest trade up. There is nothing wrong with getting a better player than Singletary. That thought seems to be what really upset some people on this site. .... .... But then, I could by a Ford Pinto for $5 and that would be a REAL good deal. 2
Charles Romes Posted March 28, 2020 Posted March 28, 2020 Needs to be a vet for pass pro, and a North South runner to complement Singletary. Hyde checks the boxes but I’m sure there are other NSvets they are targeting that have less name recognition, and hence more value.
SoCal Deek Posted March 28, 2020 Posted March 28, 2020 To my way of thinking it all comes down to plays and touches. If I’m the GM I’m taking a RB (assuming one of the top guys is there) who’ll be good for 15 carries/touches per game, over a DE who at best is maybe good for 1/2 sack and 2 pressures per game, or a #4 WR who won’t be on the field at all in 2020. Josh and Daboll need to know they can hammer it when they need a couple yards to keep the offense on the field! 1
Protocal69 Posted March 28, 2020 Posted March 28, 2020 I was going to make this into a separate thread but I fully expect Christian Wade to make the team this upcoming season. I was looking at his couple of runs last preseason and I’m definitely not a football coach or no the nuances of the position but his footwork look really clean especially for someone who has not played the game. Hopefully he has learned the playbook and got a little stronger. Well see.
Shaw66 Posted March 28, 2020 Posted March 28, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Protocal69 said: I was going to make this into a separate thread but I fully expect Christian Wade to make the team this upcoming season. I was looking at his couple of runs last preseason and I’m definitely not a football coach or no the nuances of the position but his footwork look really clean especially for someone who has not played the game. Hopefully he has learned the playbook and got a little stronger. Well see. I've had the same thought. I think he's been studying and working on skills. The problem is he will be limited to certain kinds of things that he really understands. He may be a liability in blitz pick ups, for example, and teams might automatically send a blitzer when he is in the backfield. That limits the play calling. But he looks like a natural ball carrier, and he is tough. He is a fighter. Think Sproles. Edited March 28, 2020 by Shaw66
Fan in Chicago Posted March 28, 2020 Posted March 28, 2020 1 hour ago, OldTimer1960 said: I don’t think any of us are arguing that we’d choose RB over DE - given equivalent prospects available at DE and RB at 54. However, it doesn’t look like there will be equivalent DEs to the RBs that will likely be available then. It surprises me that some would be OK taking another WR in round 2, but would be upset over a RB to platoon with Singletary. Others have made this argument as well, but let’s say the Bills will run the ball 25 plays per game (probably slightly underestimated). If Singletary gets 15 of those, that leaves 10 carries for the 2nd back. That is far more touches than even Diggs will get at WR, let alone a WR4. I get it, there are some good RBs that have been found in 3rd-4th-5th rounds. But, look at where the Bills’ now pretty good WR group was drafted: Stefon Diggs round 5, John Brown round 3, Cole Beasley undrafted. Again, if there is a very good DE prospect at 54, then I would be on board to prioritize that over the RBs, but I don’t see a DE prospect that will likely be available that I would think would be comparable to Edwards-Helaire or Akers (or Taylor). With the same argument, I would prefer an equivalent talent at CB over the RBs. I haven’t yet looked as closely at CB as I did DE and RB, so maybe that position will have equivalent players to RB at 54. Your paragraph 1 and 4 seem contradictory w.r.t RB vs DE. We have a good RB in Singletary and if an equivalently rated player who is a DE were to be available, we undoubtedly should pick the latter. The value to the team would be much higher via pash rushing flexibility compared to a lower round RB who would compete with Singletary for touches. I would prefer drafting said DE and then picking a complementary back to Singletary. To your point about WR, if the BPA is a WR at #54, I would go for him as the impact to the team is higher than a RB. Depending on the skill set, Beasley can be trade bait in this scenario. 1
Shaw66 Posted March 28, 2020 Posted March 28, 2020 14 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said: Your paragraph 1 and 4 seem contradictory w.r.t RB vs DE. We have a good RB in Singletary and if an equivalently rated player who is a DE were to be available, we undoubtedly should pick the latter. The value to the team would be much higher via pash rushing flexibility compared to a lower round RB who would compete with Singletary for touches. I would prefer drafting said DE and then picking a complementary back to Singletary. To your point about WR, if the BPA is a WR at #54, I would go for him as the impact to the team is higher than a RB. Depending on the skill set, Beasley can be trade bait in this scenario. I dont agree. I agree with OP. If the season started today, the Bills have a d line they're happy to play with. Yea, they still need to add edge talent, but it osnt a true hole for 2020. RB is a true hole. A starting quality RB is needed to complete the roster. Yeldon and Wade cant re counted on to do the job. Yeldon might come through, but you cant count on It. In other words, DE is more for the future, and RB is for now. The Diggs trade already announced that Beane is thinking now. Beane is shopping hard for a running back. 2
Fan in Chicago Posted March 28, 2020 Posted March 28, 2020 3 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: I dont agree. I agree with OP. If the season started today, the Bills have a d line they're happy to play with. Yea, they still need to add edge talent, but it osnt a true hole for 2020. RB is a true hole. A starting quality RB is needed to complete the roster. Yeldon and Wade cant re counted on to do the job. Yeldon might come through, but you cant count on It. In other words, DE is more for the future, and RB is for now. The Diggs trade already announced that Beane is thinking now. Beane is shopping hard for a running back. I am not denying that RB is a need. But if we do nothing more in FA, on draft day, DE is a more premium position than RB for Rd 2. I do want a RB, but in Rd 4 or lower.
Shaw66 Posted March 28, 2020 Posted March 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said: I am not denying that RB is a need. But if we do nothing more in FA, on draft day, DE is a more premium position than RB for Rd 2. I do want a RB, but in Rd 4 or lower. I get the premium argument, but I think Beane has signaled that short term need is what matters. Otherwise he would have kept his first round pick.
YoloinOhio Posted March 28, 2020 Posted March 28, 2020 (edited) 10 hours ago, LSHMEAB said: No disrespect to Beane because he's doing a good job, but he should be able to find a complement to Singletary(3RD RD PICK) without investing another 2nd or 3rd RD pick a year later. That's a shame WRT to the draft being short on edge rushers. Haven't done much research for obvious reasons, but the edge position looks worse than last season with Hughes and Addison, a slight downgrade from Lawson, both long in the tooth. Murphy? Meh. Very good roster overall, but they're not going to create a ton of pressure as the roster is currently constructed. Most glaring issue I see going into next season. Gotta get more TO's. Addison, though older, is a more productive pass rusher than Lawson. As far as the EDGE position in the draft, there is only one really sure thing but there some very good prospects and I could see a Jonathan Greenard for example on this team and being rotated in Edited March 28, 2020 by YoloinOhio 1 1
maryland-bills-fan Posted March 28, 2020 Posted March 28, 2020 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said: I am not denying that RB is a need. But if we do nothing more in FA, on draft day, DE is a more premium position than RB for Rd 2. I do want a RB, but in Rd 4 or lower. Come on now. Which is a better player, the 1-3th running back or the 12th defensive end? Do you really think that Bruce Smith is going to be there at #54?. IF we draft a DE, he may not even see the field unless it is mop up time in games that are out of reach. The 1a or 1b running back will get about 12 carries a game. Geesh !!!! Talk about drafting for need!! DE is not even a need. It is a speculative pick on a guy who is a 1 in shot at even being on the roster in two years. DO NOT STOCKPILE AVERAGE QUALITY BACKUPS. Edited March 28, 2020 by maryland-bills-fan 1
Bob in STL Posted March 28, 2020 Posted March 28, 2020 Pick #54 is very important to the offseason. I think you need to get a player that can be a solid starter at some point - that would mean Edge/OLB, or OT, or CB would be in play. Drafting a RB or a WR is basically drafting a rotational player for now. We could really use another RB to compliment Singletary or another WR threat to eventually challenge for the #2. I’m glad Beane is handling this and not me. 1
maryland-bills-fan Posted March 28, 2020 Posted March 28, 2020 4 minutes ago, Bob in STL said: Pick #54 is very important to the offseason. I think you need to get a player that can be a solid starter at some point - that would mean Edge/OLB, or OT, or CB would be in play. Drafting a RB or a WR is basically drafting a rotational player for now. We could really use another RB to compliment Singletary or another WR threat to eventually challenge for the #2. I’m glad Beane is handling this and not me. You are missing the fact that good teams now use two running backs and do not have two. We can upgrade our RB in this draft. Beane is smarter than me or you. Notice that he has brought in veterans at EDGE, OT, and CB but not an old worn out RB He has in the last three drafts, traded up to get quality at QB, MLB, OT and TE. All the stars line up. He is going to find a way to get a top 5 RB, and my only wonder is which one he thinks is the best.
Recommended Posts