MadBuffaloDisease Posted April 17, 2005 Posted April 17, 2005 Again as I said, the CB market will be weak next year, and Nate will be the top CB entering UFA. Also given the weakness of the draft and the fact that the Bills most likely won't be able to trade out of the 9th spot, it's better to keep Nate at his low salary (for a Pro Bowl CB) for the year, franchise him, and trade him for a 1st, maybe more, next year. This coming season will be a contract year and he should be playing lights-out. However if the Skins offer more than the 9th overall, I might have to rethink this.
Ray Posted April 17, 2005 Posted April 17, 2005 Clements is one of the best players on the team! You realize that losing Clements means T McGee is our best CB don't you? He is a great KR but average CB. Let the year play out before giving away one of our best players. I wouldn't concede that he is gone at all. With Bledsoe's $4+ million off the books and a player or two restructuring we could sign him to a long term contract. Drafting a rookie to play CB and match up against some great receivers in our division is just dumb.
brihs2005 Posted April 17, 2005 Posted April 17, 2005 Clements is one of the best players on the team! You realize that losing Clements means T McGee is our best CB don't you? He is a great KR but average CB. Let the year play out before giving away one of our best players. I wouldn't concede that he is gone at all. With Bledsoe's $4+ million off the books and a player or two restructuring we could sign him to a long term contract. Drafting a rookie to play CB and match up against some great receivers in our division is just dumb. 307415[/snapback] Ummm Troy Vincent is our best CB on the team. I think TV being our #1 Corner and McGee being #2 with Baker at FS is a better lineup than TV at FS and McGee being the #1 Corner, and Greer as the #2.
Ray Posted April 17, 2005 Posted April 17, 2005 Having a slowing 33 year old injury prone guy as your top CB is a bit scary to me. TV is better as a free safety nowadays. I like TV....I just would not like the idea of him as our number one CB. To me that is crazy.
brihs2005 Posted April 17, 2005 Posted April 17, 2005 Having a slowing 33 year old injury prone guy as your top CB is a bit scary to me. TV is better as a free safety nowadays. I like TV....I just would not like the idea of him as our number one CB. To me that is crazy. 307427[/snapback] I agree i don't love the idea with the current depth we have. But it is less crazy then McGee being our #1 Corner. I just hope saturday is an exciting day to be a bills fan instead of a long drawn out day to get out two players.
KRT88 Posted April 17, 2005 Posted April 17, 2005 I just hate these rumors. This ain't gonna happen and nor should it. Why pay a guy that type of money when according to most experts, there's hardly different in the grades 1-20? Just sit back and wait. I'd rather acquire extra 3rd, 4th and 5th round picks than one high #1.
Charlie68 Posted April 18, 2005 Posted April 18, 2005 Not sure where this rumor came from (other than the one site someone linked a few days ago) but its not on the radar of the skins fans. I talked to friend who is a Skins fan, and he had not heard any talk, and did not seem thar interested. I just scaned thru 4 redskins message boards, and I could not find one mention of this trade.. There is a lot of CB talk (who to draft with#9, trading for Buchannon w/ Oakland, etc), and none of the threads mention Nate.
brihs2005 Posted April 18, 2005 Posted April 18, 2005 Not sure where this rumor came from (other than the one site someone linked a few days ago) but its not on the radar of the skins fans. I talked to friend who is a Skins fan, and he had not heard any talk, and did not seem thar interested. I just scaned thru 4 redskins message boards, and I could not find one mention of this trade.. There is a lot of CB talk (who to draft with#9, trading for Buchannon w/ Oakland, etc), and none of the threads mention Nate. 307523[/snapback] They are ignorant... that is why they are skins fans. In the true mold of Daniel Snyder... Ignorance. (No offense to any skins fans reading this or to your friend Justman --- yes everyone, i am a big wuss)
KOKBILLS Posted April 18, 2005 Posted April 18, 2005 Agree 100%. Just pay him, TD!Dead cap space be damned, I'd much rather see Mike Williams get dumped now if it meant getting the $$$ to Nate that he deserves. MW can be replaced much easier than Nate can. 307371[/snapback] Amen! But Rico...Bro...Please refrain from any common sense Posts for the next week or so...There's "We Draft Picks" blood in the water, and TSW is full of sharks... What's next? Trade JP for a shot at Alex Smith? BTW...I think we can keep Big Mike and Nate...At least I hope we do...
Bill from NYC Posted April 18, 2005 Posted April 18, 2005 The one thing that the "don't trade Clements" crowd is overlooking is the fact that he is going to demand like 9 million per or whatever Winfield and others have gotten. We CANNOT afford that. We have a good secondary even if you take him out of it. I think we could trade away that 9th pick and pick up 2 extra picks plus whatever we get for Henry. If we have like 6 picks in rounds 1-3 there is a good chance we hit on 1, 2, or 3 of them. This team isn't far away and if we can nail down a few top flight players in the draft we are a legit contender even without Clements. I like Nate, but I think you have to look at being cost effective, and paying him that kind of money next year is not that. 307377[/snapback] Great post BFII! Imo, what it comes down to is: 1) Whether or not Clements WANTS to extend. I sense that he does not, especially after the Winfield contract. 2) Whether or not TD is willing to risk letting him go and getting nothing in return. 3) The Franchise tag is a bad idea for 9 mil. If NC decided to call our bluff (which would be smart because the 9 mil. is gauranteed), we would probably lose him the following year anyway. I for one am not fond of allocating more than 10 pct. of the Bills salary cap to a cornerback. I would gladly do so for Ogden at LT, but not a corner. NC is VERY good, but he is not a superstar. Of course, the Bills deserve to be very well compensated in any deal that involves NC. It will be truly interesting to watch this unfold, and I think that there is probably a 50/50 chance of a trade going down between now and 4/23. Jmo.
ch19079 Posted April 18, 2005 Posted April 18, 2005 so you want to trade Clements. and who would you replace him with??? a draft pick who might be a bust. you want to start a rookie as our #1 CB??? i dont like McGee as the #2, we have no depth at CB as it is. if there is 1 player on the bills or hell, in the NFL, that should be signed to a long term contract its clements. if you dont keep him than you shouldnt keep anyone. this isnt a cowart situation. hes young, a shut down corner, a good tackler, everythign you could ask for in a CB. and if you think a 1st round CB could do the same your crazy. what if the pick is a bum, a bust, a horrible CB. he wouldnt have time to learn. he would start this season. and get burned this season.
ch19079 Posted April 18, 2005 Posted April 18, 2005 Great post BFII! Imo, what it comes down to is: 1) Whether or not Clements WANTS to extend. I sense that he does not, especially after the Winfield contract. 2) Whether or not TD is willing to risk letting him go and getting nothing in return. 3) The Franchise tag is a bad idea for 9 mil. If NC decided to call our bluff (which would be smart because the 9 mil. is gauranteed), we would probably lose him the following year anyway. I for one am not fond of allocating more than 10 pct. of the Bills salary cap to a cornerback. I would gladly do so for Ogden at LT, but not a corner. NC is VERY good, but he is not a superstar. Of course, the Bills deserve to be very well compensated in any deal that involves NC. It will be truly interesting to watch this unfold, and I think that there is probably a 50/50 chance of a trade going down between now and 4/23. Jmo. 307672[/snapback] we could make room. he would be in the top 5 paid CBs in the game. hell williams is 9 mil agenst our cap. that could change. vincent's cap hit could be decreased..... hes worth the money. worthy of a franchise tag. worthy of a 1st round pick in a trade. hes worthy of a long term contract. we can make room.
CoachChuckDickerson Posted April 18, 2005 Posted April 18, 2005 Ummm Troy Vincent is our best CB on the team. I think TV being our #1 Corner and McGee being #2 with Baker at FS is a better lineup than TV at FS and McGee being the #1 Corner, and Greer as the #2. 307419[/snapback] Troy Vincent is the best corner on the team. Wow. I guess the players and coaches who played with and against Nate were wrong last year when he was voted to the probowl. Thanks for enlightening us. By the way TV is a safety now.
Like A Mofo Posted April 18, 2005 Posted April 18, 2005 The one thing that the "don't trade Clements" crowd is overlooking is the fact that he is going to demand like 9 million per or whatever Winfield and others have gotten. We CANNOT afford that. 307377[/snapback] Wait, I thought the "salary cap" is here to make sure EVERY team is on EVEN terms, whatever happened to that concept? Oh thats right, its a mirage, I forgot. TD, go ahread and deal the All-Pro CB, lets develop yet another young player, and then in 2006 when the Bills are 8-8 again we will say "well lets give TD another year or two, we have some good young players that are ready to blossom"...then WM will want out, because the Bills "cannot afford him" then TD will get ANOTHER pick and draft a rookie RB, then in 2007 when the Bills go 7-9 we will say "well the rooke RB shows promise, lets give him and TD more time and see if the young RB develops"...see the cycle? Im down on TD if this deal goes down.
brihs2005 Posted April 18, 2005 Posted April 18, 2005 Troy Vincent is the best corner on the team. Wow. I guess the players and coaches who played with and against Nate were wrong last year when he was voted to the probowl. Thanks for enlightening us. By the way TV is a safety now. 307796[/snapback] Coach, you got a personal vendetta against me or something? I was implying to a previous post that if clements was gone the best CB on our team would not be McGee, it would be Vincent. Ummm, get your monkey off my back.
Bill from NYC Posted April 18, 2005 Posted April 18, 2005 Wait, I thought the "salary cap" is here to make sure EVERY team is on EVEN terms, whatever happened to that concept? Oh thats right, its a mirage, I forgot. TD, go ahread and deal the All-Pro CB, lets develop yet another young player, and then in 2006 when the Bills are 8-8 again we will say "well lets give TD another year or two, we have some good young players that are ready to blossom"...then WM will want out, because the Bills "cannot afford him" then TD will get ANOTHER pick and draft a rookie RB, then in 2007 when the Bills go 7-9 we will say "well the rooke RB shows promise, lets give him and TD more time and see if the young RB develops"...see the cycle? Im down on TD if this deal goes down. 307798[/snapback] Your post makes sense. Imo there are other factors to consider. For one thing, I am not too sure if this is all about TD. Mr. Wilson is rich, but not when compared to other NFL owners. Ultimately, it will be up to RW to decide whether or not he wants to fork over a 15 million dollar signing bonus to a cornerback. Also, we dont truly know for sure whether or not Nate wants to remain a Bill. Either way, the scary part is not signing nor trading NC. It is the thought of letting an extremely good player go after the season and getting nothing in return. Jmo.
Like A Mofo Posted April 18, 2005 Posted April 18, 2005 Your post makes sense. Imo there are other factors to consider. For one thing, I am not too sure if this is all about TD. Mr. Wilson is rich, but not when compared to other NFL owners. Ultimately, it will be up to RW to decide whether or not he wants to fork over a 15 million dollar signing bonus to a cornerback. Also, we dont truly know for sure whether or not Nate wants to remain a Bill. Either way, the scary part is not signing nor trading NC. It is the thought of letting an extremely good player go after the season and getting nothing in return. Jmo. 307807[/snapback] Thats true too, if NC does not want to come back, and if Bills management knows this for certian, then it would make $en$e to deal him now and not get anything after 2005. Im just fearful this will continue to be a viscious cycle for the Bills, I hope that does not happen.
Kelly the Dog Posted April 18, 2005 Posted April 18, 2005 The biggest factor determining whether we resign Nate is likely more to do with Nate than TD or Ralph Wilson. Somehow Nate Clements doesn't appear to be the guy to give a hometown discount, or to say I really want to stay in Buffalo my whole career because I'm a blue-collar guy and these are blue collar fans. Nate wants to be told Nate is great and that means cash and exposure. I still think he may resign, but it will only be if the Bills offer him equal to or close to what other teams are offering him. He does NOT under any circumstances seem like he will resign early and avoid FA, especially because there aren't a lot of CBs coming out next year. He would be dumb to do it unless he's offered 15 million now and he's not going to be. He's got a great thing going and he is going after (and is going to hit) the jackpot, and prime time TV exposure.
BRH Posted April 18, 2005 Posted April 18, 2005 I think part of the reason we're getting all worked up is that we don't want to wait until late Saturday night to watch the Bills make their first pick and we know we're going to be sitting in front of the idiot box all day anyway just in case something happens. I suppose there's a chance that after Saturday we will be sitting there with our #55 pick and Henry and Clements still on the roster. If that happens I will trust it is because TD did not feel he could get adequate value for a Pro Bowl CB and a RB who has been to the Pro Bowl (note the subtle distinction). It's not going to be the end of the world if we come out of the draft with Clements and Henry still on our roster, but most of us just want to see something happen. I don't think it's so far-fetched that we could end up with a low first, three seconds and two thirds. From everything I'm hearing, while the top half of the first round isn't anything to write home about, the next half plus rounds 2 and 3 are as deep as they have ever been. If we could have a half-dozen of those 75 or so picks, we'd be in great shape. You're telling me you wouldn't want Spencer, Jones, Nugent and three more first-day picks over Clements, Henry, and two draft picks?
Like A Mofo Posted April 18, 2005 Posted April 18, 2005 Here is my other issue: If the Bills have to rely on players giving "hometown discounts" in a salary cap enviroment, that is telling.
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