There should be a national dialogue in getting back to work

[shoshin]

5 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

I’m talking about Erie County specifically. It’s going to be hard / impossible to meet that benchmark. Not because we are horribly affected by Covid overall,  but the criteria puts too much weight on who is getting it. Demographics are different in different regions of NYS, and yes I think NYC should be the last by far due to the impact there. 

 

WNY is only short in 2 categories. I have no doubt it'll get there soon. Cuomo is using the exact Trump numbers and has even added some arbitrary thresholds not included in the Trump guidelines to make it easier to meet. 

Edited May 14, 2020 by shoshin

[Boatdrinks]

Just now, shoshin said:

 

WNY is only short in 2 categories. I have no doubt it'll get there soon. There's no conspiracy. Cuomo is using the exact Trump numbers and has even added some arbitrary thresholds not included in the Trump guidelines to make it easier to meet. 

You are much more optimistic than I am . Feeling like we will be behind NYC but that’s just me. 

[Doc Brown]

59 minutes ago, GG said:

 

The biggest problem with CDC guidelines is the one size fits all approach for the entire country.   That's not feasible even in NYS.

Trump saying he has the power to reopen and then saying it's up to the governors just added to the confusion for people that don't follow politics.  Governors begging the federal government for more PPE also added to the confusion.  The Trump administration has done a decent job since the end of February but their messaging has been terrible.

[shoshin]

1 minute ago, GG said:

 

To clarify, those are the official White House orders, based on CDC and others' recommendations.  The CDC orders were much more prescriptive. 

 

Surprised that battle wasn't picked up here by the peanut gallery when the admin kicked back the CDC recommendations after the first pass.

 

I call them the Trump-CDC guidelines because it hopefully speaks to both sides. Those are good guidelines. 

 

On the church/restaurant/other CDC recommendations story of last week, those things had very little substance beyond "practice common sense." Bizzarre that the admin cared about them at all. 

[Magox]

Guidelines are just that.  Guidelines.   In other words they aren't dictates but rather advice, principles and a general rule.

 

I think what Dr. Birx would tell you that what is more important that they are following the general essence of their guidelines as opposed to following it to a tee.   Every single state to my knowledge is in close consult with the Task Force and often times when I see that some of the states that didn't meet the specific goals of the guidelines when asked about them in front of Dr. Birx, she pretty much always states that she's been in communication with them, has seen their data and approves of what they are doing.

 

Let's not get carried away with meeting the specifics as opposed to generally complying with the spirit of the guidelines.  

 

 

Edited May 14, 2020 by Magox

[B-Man]

 

 

 

 

 

[shoshin]

27 minutes ago, Magox said:

Guidelines are just that.  Guidelines.   In other words they aren't dictates but rather advice, principles and a general rule.

 

I think what Dr. Birx would tell you that what is more important that they are following the general essence of their guidelines as opposed to following it to a tee.   Every single state to my knowledge is in close consult with the Task Force and often times when I see that some of the states that didn't meet the specific goals of the guidelines when asked about them in front of Dr. Birx, she pretty much always states that she's been in communication with them, has seen their data and approves of what they are doing.

 

Let's not get carried away with meeting the specifics as opposed to generally complying with the spirit of the guidelines.  

 

 

 

With the exception of NYS, almost no state is following them so it doesn't matter that they originated with the CDC and were published by the admin. The standards for CA are such that much of it will be very hard to open. PA has a very high standard too. Not following some of the other NE state standards.

 

TX just has some things companies have to do--no objective measures to move through phases. 

 

Very few states appear to be following the guidelines, even though they are straightforward and objective.

Edited May 14, 2020 by shoshin

[SoCal Deek]

40 minutes ago, shoshin said:

 

WNY is only short in 2 categories. I have no doubt it'll get there soon. Cuomo is using the exact Trump numbers and has even added some arbitrary thresholds not included in the Trump guidelines to make it easier to meet. 

This is a prime example of regulations being BADLY applied. WNY has almost no cases, hospitalizations, or deaths, and yet their supposed to show a consistent level of decline?

[dubs]

1 minute ago, shoshin said:

 

With the exception of NYS, almost no state is following them so it doesn't matter that they originated with the CDC and were published by the admin. The standards for CA are such that much of it will be very hard to open. PA has a very high standard too. Not following some of the other NE state standards.

 

TX just has some things companies have to do--no objective measures to move through phases. 

 

Very few states appear to be following the guidelines, even though they are straightforward and objective.

 

 

Again, what are the guidelines supposed to be accomplishing?  It appears to me that they are trying to gradually open up while simultaneously maintaining a reduction in virus cases.

In other words, the constraint for their model is 'no increase in new infections'.  I don't know if that's true, that's just my interpretation of it because no one has really told us.

 

[GG]

2 minutes ago, dubs said:

 

In other words, the constraint for their model is 'no increase in new infections'.  I don't know if that's true, that's just my interpretation of it because no one has really told us.

 

 

If that is the case, then you'll never open up because by nature of the virus the cases will keep growing.  That should not be the standard.

[dubs]

2 minutes ago, GG said:

 

If that is the case, then you'll never open up because by nature of the virus the cases will keep growing.  That should not be the standard.

 

Bingo!

 

 

[shoshin]

12 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

This is a prime example of regulations being BADLY applied. WNY has almost no cases, hospitalizations, or deaths, and yet their supposed to show a consistent level of decline?

 

There are two criteria there. Can meet either one. 

 

7 minutes ago, GG said:

 

If that is the case, then you'll never open up because by nature of the virus the cases will keep growing.  That should not be the standard.

 

It's not, obviously.

Edited May 14, 2020 by shoshin

[BillStime]

2 hours ago, MILFHUNTER#518 said:

Look at these two side by side. Notice the pattern??

 

Gee, I wonder if density and population play a role here...

[SoCal Deek]

6 minutes ago, BillStime said:

 

Gee, I wonder if density and population play a role here...

Nope....political leaning.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

2 hours ago, Boatdrinks said:

You are much more optimistic than I am . Feeling like we will be behind NYC but that’s just me. 

 

...outlines openings by region...........

New York coronavirus reopening: Which regions can start to reopen May 15?

 

Jon Campbell, New York State Team Published 3:20 p.m. ET May 13, 2020 | Updated 4:08 p.m. ET May 14, 2020

 

ALBANY – Certain businesses across much of upstate New York will have the green light to reopen Friday after nearly two months of being forced to shut their doors amid the torrid spread of the coronavirus.

 

But much of the state — including the Buffalo area, New York City and its suburbs — will have to remain shuttered, unable to meet the state's metrics to make it eligible for the first phase of reopening.

 

New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo's office has laid out seven key metrics each region of the state must meet in order to qualify for a partial reopening on Friday, when eligible regions will be allowed to let construction, manufacturing and retail businesses resume in-person operations.

 

Nonessential retail operations will be limited to curbside pickup, while essential retail — including grocery stores — will continue operating as normal, as they have throughout the state's stay-at-home order.

 

Why is one region of the state allowed to open when another, nearby region isn't?

 

https://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/news/politics/albany/2020/05/13/new-york-coronavirus-reopening-which-regions-can-start-reopen-may-15/5182327002/

 

 

Edited May 14, 2020 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[Magox]

Sounds legit

 

 

 

[Beast]

1 hour ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...outlines openings by region...........

New York coronavirus reopening: Which regions can start to reopen May 15?

 

Jon Campbell, New York State Team Published 3:20 p.m. ET May 13, 2020 | Updated 4:08 p.m. ET May 14, 2020

 

ALBANY – Certain businesses across much of upstate New York will have the green light to reopen Friday after nearly two months of being forced to shut their doors amid the torrid spread of the coronavirus.

 

But much of the state — including the Buffalo area, New York City and its suburbs — will have to remain shuttered, unable to meet the state's metrics to make it eligible for the first phase of reopening.

 

New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo's office has laid out seven key metrics each region of the state must meet in order to qualify for a partial reopening on Friday, when eligible regions will be allowed to let construction, manufacturing and retail businesses resume in-person operations.

 

Nonessential retail operations will be limited to curbside pickup, while essential retail — including grocery stores — will continue operating as normal, as they have throughout the state's stay-at-home order.

 

Why is one region of the state allowed to open when another, nearby region isn't?

 

https://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/news/politics/albany/2020/05/13/new-york-coronavirus-reopening-which-regions-can-start-reopen-may-15/5182327002/

 

 

 

I've been working since this lockdown has been going on but, tomorrow, I have to start getting my temperature taken upon arrival at work.

 

I guess the last two months or so it didn't matter but it does now.

 

Go figure.

 

 

[Chef Jim]

1 hour ago, BillStime said:

 

Gee, I wonder if density and population play a role here...

 

Which blue states are densely populated? 

 

Sorry wrong map.  Which yellow states are densely populated? 

Edited May 14, 2020 by Chef Jim

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 minute ago, Binghamton Beast said:

 

I've been working since this lockdown has been going on but, tomorrow, I have to start getting my temperature taken upon arrival at work.

 

I guess the last two months or so it didn't matter but it does now.

 

Go figure.

 

 

 

 

...sad....especially considering your public exposure in your work....hope you're ok my friend.....

[Beast]

Just now, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

...sad....especially considering your public exposure in your work....hope you're ok my friend.....

 

Thanks, buddy. I'm doing good. The numbers have been very low here in Broome County. I get the statistics from the three hospitals and the ICU is, and has been, pretty much empty. 24 deaths. All elderly and I'm sure with issues before they were struck with Covid.

 

Hope all is well with you and yours!