GG Posted May 14, 2020 Posted May 14, 2020 2 minutes ago, BillStime said: Fair enough - 271 meetings with Russia... but its all hoax. Took a quick look. Those weren't meetings, but REQUESTS for meetings & appearances. None of them were with Trump. 2
dubs Posted May 14, 2020 Posted May 14, 2020 32 minutes ago, shoshin said: NYS is pretty much using the CDC guidelines put out by the administration. Those guidelines are excellent. Guidelines to achieve what end? how can we have guidelines if we don't know what we are trying to accomplish. All I am asking is, What is the goal? @snafu described this very well just now.
shoshin Posted May 14, 2020 Posted May 14, 2020 2 minutes ago, dubs said: Guidelines to achieve what end? how can we have guidelines if we don't know what we are trying to accomplish. All I am asking is, What is the goal? @snafu described this very well just now. The title of the CDC guidelines is pretty clear to state the goal. Opening Up America.
GG Posted May 14, 2020 Posted May 14, 2020 Just now, shoshin said: The title of the CDC guidelines is pretty clear to state the goal. Opening Up America. The biggest problem with CDC guidelines is the one size fits all approach for the entire country. That's not feasible even in NYS. 1 5
Boatdrinks Posted May 14, 2020 Posted May 14, 2020 1 minute ago, GG said: The biggest problem with CDC guidelines is the one size fits all approach for the entire country. That's not feasible even in NYS. Couldn’t agree more. Why is the outcome of those who get Covid 19 important to opening up ? Shouldn’t the goal be hospital capacity and proper care for those who contract it ? Why aren’t we counting recoveries , including those who recover at home ? The outcome shouldn’t affect the ability of others to earn a living. Cuomo’s guidelines are pretty much impossible for most areas of NY. He has no intention of opening up, just of tanking the NY economy and using the crisis to bailout his mismanaged mess. 3
dubs Posted May 14, 2020 Posted May 14, 2020 2 minutes ago, shoshin said: The title of the CDC guidelines is pretty clear to state the goal. Opening Up America. I think you are missing the point and I am not trying to be condescending. If it sounds that way, I apologize. If the goal was to Open Up America, we would be open. So that's not the goal even if that's what it says. It's Open Up America with some type of mitigation of the virus. But there is no definition of that. 3
snafu Posted May 14, 2020 Posted May 14, 2020 11 minutes ago, dubs said: Guidelines to achieve what end? how can we have guidelines if we don't know what we are trying to accomplish. All I am asking is, What is the goal? @snafu described this very well just now. The bold text is an excellent question. Leadership is about managing people’s expectations and making rational, non-arbitrary decisions. Normal citizens without agendas understand this. 2
FireChans Posted May 14, 2020 Posted May 14, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, snafu said: The bold text is an excellent question. Leadership is about managing people’s expectations and making rational, non-arbitrary decisions. Normal citizens without agendas understand this. There just aren’t many of those any more. For even suggesting people need to eventually return to work, you are called a murderer. Edited May 14, 2020 by FireChans 2 1
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted May 14, 2020 Posted May 14, 2020 14 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said: Couldn’t agree more. Why is the outcome of those who get Covid 19 important to opening up ? Shouldn’t the goal be hospital capacity and proper care for those who contract it ? Why aren’t we counting recoveries , including those who recover at home ? The outcome shouldn’t affect the ability of others to earn a living. Cuomo’s guidelines are pretty much impossible for most areas of NY. He has no intention of opening up, just of tanking the NY economy and using the crisis to bailout his mismanaged mess. ...of course.....Pelosi's bill has ONE TRILLION DOLLARS in it for states......Cuomo wants 60 billion (before Covid-19, projected budget shortfall was 7 billion because of his sound fiscal management)….Grusome Newsome is 58 billion in the red....and Illinois Governor (yup, HIM) wants 41 billion which includes 10 billion for their ongoing unfunded pension liability...and what does Covid-19 have to do with that?...SMH...……. 1 1
Chef Jim Posted May 14, 2020 Posted May 14, 2020 9 hours ago, daz28 said: For Christs sake man, they give you the answer. A Fourth Amendment "seizure" occurs when a vehicle is stopped at a checkpoint That comes from the Supreme Court not me, Those are their words, not mine, They clearly admit that a stop is an illegal seizure.... BUTTTTTTT HILLARYYYYY(well actually DWI) In real life they established that the illegal seizure WAS REASONABLE. BUTTTTT MYYYY RIGGGHTTSSSSS. NEVER EVER GIVE UP A RIGHT CUZ SOME DAYZ A COVIDZ Obama MIGHT GET YOU. Sorry but the theatrics are for Mr DR who you all hold in high esteem for being disingenuous. He wouldn't know a TRUE RIGHT if both of them slapped him in the nose in the heat of passion. When they stop you what are they seizing other than your time? If it was deemed a violation of your rights why are they still being conducted? And what does Hillary have to do with this?
Tiberius Posted May 14, 2020 Posted May 14, 2020 Why hasn't Trump started his rallies back up? Do as he says, not as he does?
shoshin Posted May 14, 2020 Posted May 14, 2020 (edited) 44 minutes ago, GG said: The biggest problem with CDC guidelines is the one size fits all approach for the entire country. That's not feasible even in NYS. The guidelines use only relative measures and have no specific numbers to meet except "days." My guess is that you haven't looked at them too hard, and I don't blame you for that, since only one state appears to be paying any attention to it. NYS modified it, and it applied it by region, which is resulting in larger urban areas opening later, as you would expect. Most people haven't read them. They are set up to work. 37 minutes ago, dubs said: I think you are missing the point and I am not trying to be condescending. If it sounds that way, I apologize. If the goal was to Open Up America, we would be open. Not really. The Trump/CDC guidelines set goals and gates to pass through to move through stages of reopening. Many places would not pass the test for stage 1. Quote So that's not the goal even if that's what it says. It's Open Up America with some type of mitigation of the virus. But there is no definition of that. The goal is to Open Up America. That happens in stages. If you read the guidelines, they achieve full "life being open for all of us" by eliminating the virus in stages as measured by our ability to continuously exercise control over the virus as we open more things. The guidelines take us from shutdown to concert-going. While we are going to concerts, the virus may still be around but who cares--we will have, at that point, achieved the old normal. Edited May 14, 2020 by shoshin
MILFHUNTER#518 Posted May 14, 2020 Posted May 14, 2020 I usually dont pay much attention to David Portnoy, but damn is he on point this time. Everything he said is true. https://twitter.com/stoolpresidente/status/1260721488241418240?s=01 2 2
shoshin Posted May 14, 2020 Posted May 14, 2020 (edited) 46 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said: Couldn’t agree more. Why is the outcome of those who get Covid 19 important to opening up ? Shouldn’t the goal be hospital capacity and proper care for those who contract it ? Why aren’t we counting recoveries , including those who recover at home ? The outcome shouldn’t affect the ability of others to earn a living. Cuomo’s guidelines are pretty much impossible for most areas of NY. He has no intention of opening up, just of tanking the NY economy and using the crisis to bailout his mismanaged mess. You're clinging to someone else's story and are wrong. 4 out of 7 geographic areas can open now and even NY City is not that far off (new hospitalizations is the category it's furthest from and even that is within reach)--and EVERYONE on planet earth would expect NY City to open last. You can disagree with the metrics but they are the ones promoted by the Trump CDC and NYS is getting there on them. NYS is a model for how to come out of this right now considering how horrible the situation was there just a month ago. Edited May 14, 2020 by shoshin
Boatdrinks Posted May 14, 2020 Posted May 14, 2020 Just now, shoshin said: You're clinging to someone else's story and are wrong. 4 out of 7 geographic areas can open now and even NYC is not that far off--and EVERYONE on planet earth would expect NYC to open last. You can disagree with the metrics but they are the ones promoted by the Trump CDC and NYS is getting there on them. I’m talking about Erie County specifically. It’s going to be hard / impossible to meet that benchmark. Not because we are horribly affected by Covid overall, but the criteria puts too much weight on who is getting it. Demographics are different in different regions of NYS, and yes I think NYC should be the last by far due to the impact there. 1
MILFHUNTER#518 Posted May 14, 2020 Posted May 14, 2020 Look at these two side by side. Notice the pattern?? 2 3
GG Posted May 14, 2020 Posted May 14, 2020 9 minutes ago, shoshin said: The guidelines use only relative measures and have no specific numbers to meet except "days." My guess is that you haven't looked at them too hard, and I don't blame you for that, since only one state appears to be paying any attention to it. NYS modified it, and it applied it by region, which is resulting in larger urban areas opening later, as you would expect. Most people haven't read them. They are set up to work. Not really. The Trump/CDC guidelines set goals and gates to pass through to move through stages of reopening. Many places would not pass the test for stage 1. The goal is to Open Up America. That happens in stages. If you read the guidelines, they achieve full "life being open for all of us" by eliminating the virus in stages as measured by our ability to continuously exercise control over the virus as we open more things. The guidelines take us from shutdown to concert-going. While we are going to concerts, the virus may still be around but who cares--we will have, at that point, achieved the old normal. To clarify, those are the official White House orders, based on CDC and others' recommendations. The CDC orders were much more prescriptive. Surprised that battle wasn't picked up here by the peanut gallery when the admin kicked back the CDC recommendations after the first pass. 1 1
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