There should be a national dialogue in getting back to work

[Tiberius]

7 hours ago, Boatdrinks said:

People will fly, slowly at first  but surely. ( stop calling me Shirley lol..) Just like they did after 9/11, although I’m not comparing the two. Just that the effect is the same. People need to get places; some of which you can’t drive to and others where it is logistically impractical. Most level headed people feel safe enough now. Anytime anything opens up there are/ will be people there, because they’re tired of this and know that hiding under a rock is no way to live. Just a look at the twitter shaming when folks flock to a beach will tell you this fear thing is overblown. It’s mostly a media driven narrative to the majority of the population. If the planes are being cleaned that will be enough. Heck, people were still taking that filthy subway in NYC before they even considered cleaning it once a night. 

No way people feel safe now. And no way people will feel safe being crammed into a flying tube. Not unless there is instant testing. 

 

 

And this is interesting, 1968 pandemic https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_flu

[shoshin]

13 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

No way people feel safe now. And no way people will feel safe being crammed into a flying tube. Not unless there is instant testing. 

 

 

And this is interesting, 1968 pandemic https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_flu

 

I'll take a trip once my state is open for business and one of the places I'd normally fly to for business like Sweden is happy to accept travelers...and businesses are happy to have visitors. Fear of being in the tube won't keep me from doing it--only practical considerations like being able to do business and being somewhat confident I'm not a spreader will keep me home. 

[SoCal Deek]

13 minutes ago, shoshin said:

 

I'll take a trip once my state is open for business and one of the places I'd normally fly to for business like Sweden is happy to accept travelers...and businesses are happy to have visitors. Fear of being in the tube won't keep me from doing it--only practical considerations like being able to do business and being somewhat confident I'm not a spreader will keep me home. 

Shoeshin....fear of being in the tube? Are you in London?

[Tiberius]

14 minutes ago, shoshin said:

 

I'll take a trip once my state is open for business and one of the places I'd normally fly to for business like Sweden is happy to accept travelers...and businesses are happy to have visitors. Fear of being in the tube won't keep me from doing it--only practical considerations like being able to do business and being somewhat confident I'm not a spreader will keep me home. 

You might, but the point is that many, many won’t. Do you think the airlines, which run on thin margins, can survive unless most people feel safe? 

[SoCal Deek]

Just now, Tiberius said:

You might, but the point is that many, many won’t. Do you think the airlines, which run on thin margins, can survive unless most people feel safe? 

Tibs: what’s something worth? Answer: What people are willing to pay for it.

[Reality Check]

11 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Tibs: what’s something worth? Answer: What people are willing to pay for it.

That used to be true, now it is how much the bank is willing to "lend" to you. That is where price discovery is at these days. Banks stop lending, everything contracts. They stop lending long enough, and prices collapse to almost nothing. The credit system has prime control over pricing trends in the aggregate.

[SoCal Deek]

Just now, Reality Check said:

That used to be true, now it is how much the bank is willing to "lend" to you. That is where price discovery is at these days. Banks stop lending, everything contracts. They stop lending long enough, and prices collapse to almost nothing. The credit system has prime control over pricing trends in the aggregate.

OK? But he asked if people would be willing to fly. A lot of the answer will be in found in how much an airline ticket costs. 

[Reality Check]

1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said:

OK? But he asked if people would be willing to fly. A lot of the answer will be in found in how much an airline ticket costs. 

True, but remember, everyone is getting a debt infusion of liquidity to maintain the very options that you describe. Again, without the extension of that liquidity from our credit system, those options disappear entirely. We keep glancing over the fact that even last Fall, the banking system required trillions of dollars remain viable. 

[Chef Jim]

3 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

OK? But he asked if people would be willing to fly. A lot of the answer will be in found in how much an airline ticket costs. 

I got an email last week from my wife with the subject line HOLY CRAP. She found round trip tickets to St Thomas (we rent a house in St John on a regular basis) for $337 with only one stop in Miami. She was very ready to pull the trigger. Does anyone know if the USVI beaches are open?  ?

[Azalin]

2 hours ago, Reality Check said:

BS. I used injuries as an excuse and over a couple years I became pre-diabetic and hypertensive. When I got sick for 3 weeks last December and had all the COVID 19 symptoms including numbness in the limbs, I had to change my ways. I lost 35 lbs since then and the total elimination of simple sugars and industrial cooking oils was the foundation of the changes I made, along with intermittent fasting. I still can't exercise properly until I get my surgeries, but that day approaches slowly but surely. My blood pressure is now normal, and I am no longer pre-diabetic. I know I know, I am supposed to take pharmaceuticals and continue to have no self control over what I put in my body because it's "so difficult". Yeah, it is difficult. Survival and not being a burden on others is difficult. 

 

It's not BS and you know it. Using yourself as a template with which to gauge the rest of society is a bit arrogant, don't you think? I'd love to have the opportunity to introduce you to the woman I work with who was born with a hole in her heart, who is perfectly capable of living a normal life but is very susceptible to cardiovascular issues. Or one of my closest friends, who has had diabetes all his life, and is a competitive martial artist and in excellent physical condition. Both of them are at increased risk of becoming seriously ill if exposed to COVID-19.

 

It's great that you did what you had to and began improving your health and quality of life; that's something most of us could stand to do. The fact remains though that we're not all put together the same, and some of us are born at a disadvantage. That disadvantage may be socio-economic in nature, or it could be genetic. Don't be too quick to cast blame on them for something they may have had no control over whatsoever.   

[SoCal Deek]

5 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

I got an email last week from my wife with the subject line HOLY CRAP. She found round trip tickets to St Thomas (we rent a house in St John on a regular basis) for $337 with only one stop in Miami. She was very ready to pull the trigger. Does anyone know if the USVI beaches are open?  ?

The real question should be why is your wife emailing you? Can’t she just yell out to you from the other side of the house? You guys have taken this social distancing to the extreme! 

[Chef Jim]

3 minutes ago, Azalin said:

 

It's not BS and you know it. Using yourself as a template with which to gauge the rest of society is a bit arrogant, don't you think? I'd love to have the opportunity to introduce you to the woman I work with who was born with a hole in her heart, who is perfectly capable of living a normal life but is very susceptible to cardiovascular issues. Or one of my closest friends, who has had diabetes all his life, and is a competitive martial artist and in excellent physical condition. Both of them are at increased risk of becoming seriously ill if exposed to COVID-19.

 

It's great that you did what you had to and began improving your health and quality of life; that's something most of us could stand to do. The fact remains though that we're not all put together the same, and some of us are born at a disadvantage. That disadvantage may be socio-economic in nature, or it could be genetic. Don't be too quick to cast blame on them for something they may have had no control over whatsoever.   

But I think the point being made that while many people are born predisposed to certain ailments many of the conditions that cause people to be susceptible to severe illness when they get the virus is self-inflicted. And that is likely a MUCH greater percentage. 

4 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

The real question should be why is your wife emailing you? Can’t she just yell out to you from the other side of the house? You guys have taken this social distancing to the extreme! 

I go in the office a few days a week and that was one of them.  ?

[Azalin]

6 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

But I think the point being made that while many people are born predisposed to certain ailments many of the conditions that cause people to be susceptible to severe illness when they get the virus is self-inflicted. And that is likely a MUCH greater percentage. 

 

 

That was indeed the original point, but I felt that GETTOTHE50 had made a good point as well. 

[Reality Check]

9 minutes ago, Azalin said:

 

It's not BS and you know it. Using yourself as a template with which to gauge the rest of society is a bit arrogant, don't you think? I'd love to have the opportunity to introduce you to the woman I work with who was born with a hole in her heart, who is perfectly capable of living a normal life but is very susceptible to cardiovascular issues. Or one of my closest friends, who has had diabetes all his life, and is a competitive martial artist and in excellent physical condition. Both of them are at increased risk of becoming seriously ill if exposed to COVID-19.

 

It's great that you did what you had to and began improving your health and quality of life; that's something most of us could stand to do. The fact remains though that we're not all put together the same, and some of us are born at a disadvantage. That disadvantage may be socio-economic in nature, or it could be genetic. Don't be too quick to cast blame on them for something they may have had no control over whatsoever.   

I fail to see the conflict here. You are using a template based on rare genetic conditions. I never disputed that, and those people require our support. But you can't let slide the overwhelming majority of people who contaminate themselves through poor diet and other lifestyle choices. Type 2 diabetes is reversible for the vast majority with the right dietary decisions. Simple sugars are enemy number one in all its forms. It is the prime driver of inflammation in the body. It is the prime enemy of the liver, because once those processes in the liver are compromised, snowballs become avalanches. If this makes me a bad guy, then I will accept that. It sucks not eating pizza anymore, or ice cream and Doritos, but it can be done.

[Azalin]

1 minute ago, Reality Check said:

I fail to see the conflict here. You are using a template based on rare genetic conditions. I never disputed that, and those people require our support. But you can't let slide the overwhelming majority of people who contaminate themselves through poor diet and other lifestyle choices. Type 2 diabetes is reversible for the vast majority with the right dietary decisions. Simple sugars are enemy number one in all its forms. It is the prime driver of inflammation in the body. It is the prime enemy of the liver, because once those processes in the liver are compromised, snowballs become avalanches. If this makes me a bad guy, then I will accept that. It sucks not eating pizza anymore, or ice cream and Doritos, but it can be done.

 

I can see that we're each harping on our own points. Nowhere did I dispute any of your assertions that most health conditions that make us more susceptible to the ravages of COVID-19 are self-induced. That is undeniably true. My point has been that I believe you are underestimating the amount of people who, through absolutely no fault of their own, are in a higher risk due to physical conditions or maladies that are not of their making. Diabetes ain't all about pizza and cookies, and neither is heart disease. Lots of people with healthy lifestyles suffer them too. 

[Reality Check]

5 minutes ago, Azalin said:

 

I can see that we're each harping on our own points. Nowhere did I dispute any of your assertions that most health conditions that make us more susceptible to the ravages of COVID-19 are self-induced. That is undeniably true. My point has been that I believe you are underestimating the amount of people who, through absolutely no fault of their own, are in a higher risk due to physical conditions or maladies that are not of their making. Diabetes ain't all about pizza and cookies, and neither is heart disease. Lots of people with healthy lifestyles suffer them too. 

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this. I am not underestimating anything from my point of view. I know many people who think that they have an excellent diet while triggering insulin almost 24 hours a day, day after day, and using cooking oils that are not fit for human consumption, and or eating processed food loaded with hidden sugars and GMO frankenfood. My own doctor knows virtually nothing about nutrition. I am currently looking for a new doctor of course. Well, all I can say is good luck to you, and I do wish the best for the people you know that have real genetic conditions. My father was such a person too.

[Chef Jim]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

The real question should be why is your wife emailing you? Can’t she just yell out to you from the other side of the house? You guys have taken this social distancing to the extreme! 

Wait no. I was home that day. We are so ***** rich that our house is so big we have to email just to let each other know dinner is ready and take a tram from our home offices to the dining room. Yeah that’s it! 

[IDBillzFan]

On 5/10/2020 at 3:14 AM, ALF said:

California should make Telsa a test case to open . Have pay protection and  pension for family if a worker dies .  I would hate to see another AOC loss of jobs.  

 

The issue isn't the state. The state has already permitted the return of manufacturing. The issue is Alameda County, which is making him stay shut down regardless of what the state has done.

 

I hope he pulls out, sets up shop in Texas, and tells Alameda to eff itself in the process. It's stunning to me how many people hate him simply because he isn't falling in line with leftist desires to crush the economy. Just stunning.

 

 

[Reality Check]

5 minutes ago, IDBillzFan said:

 

The issue isn't the state. The state has already permitted the return of manufacturing. The issue is Alameda County, which is making him stay shut down regardless of what the state has done.

 

I hope he pulls out, sets up shop in Texas, and tells Alameda to eff itself in the process. It's stunning to me how many people hate him simply because he isn't falling in line with leftist desires to crush the economy. Just stunning.

 

 

That seems to be the point of the whole exercise. Surrender to the demands of the left, or become unviable economically. Hold out long enough, and they will starve you to death if necessary. Stalin would be proud.

[Chef Jim]

12 minutes ago, IDBillzFan said:

 

The issue isn't the state. The state has already permitted the return of manufacturing. The issue is Alameda County, which is making him stay shut down regardless of what the state has done.

 

I hope he pulls out, sets up shop in Texas, and tells Alameda to eff itself in the process. It's stunning to me how many people hate him simply because he isn't falling in line with leftist desires to crush the economy. Just stunning.

 

 

Well I wouldn’t be surprised if Alameda gave him a sweet deal on the plant. The Tesla plant is the old Nissan plant in Fremont. He “just” moved into the empty space.