B-Man Posted March 27, 2020 Posted March 27, 2020 BECAUSE ECONOMICS ARE LIFE AND DEATH: “How Can you Talk Economics When People are Dying”. . 1
mannc Posted March 27, 2020 Posted March 27, 2020 2 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: What percentage of the population of the U.S. get a flu vaccine? What percentage of the world's population get one? No idea. But my understanding is that even if everyone got vaccinated every year, the flu would still be around because the virus mutates and the vaccine is not perfect.
3rdnlng Posted March 27, 2020 Posted March 27, 2020 4 minutes ago, mannc said: No idea. But my understanding is that even if everyone got vaccinated every year, the flu would still be around because the virus mutates and the vaccine is not perfect. Yes, the vaccines that are created are done on a "best guess" basis. Sometimes they are very effective while other times not so much. Vaccines seem to be the equivalent of crowd control vs. a riot without them.
Magox Posted March 27, 2020 Author Posted March 27, 2020 I find it fascinating as I have been saying for days now that Cuomo and Trump truly are not that far apart. Cuomo admits his decision to quarantine everyone at once was 'not the best strategy' and that he is 'working on' release of coronavirus antibody test that will allow people to go back to work Quote "Cuomo admits his decision to quarantine everyone at once was 'not the best strategy' and that he is 'working on' release of coronavirus antibody test that will allow people to go back to work" Keep in mind, Cuomo didn't shut down the schools until just 11 days ago and the Statue of Liberty, Empire state building and other famous places were open early mid week last week. They didn't even shut down the restaurants until Thursday or Friday of last week. He definitely along with Deblasio resisted in shutting down things. I'm not saying that to blame him, I'm making that point because Trump also resisted at least in rhetoric and downplaying the virus. The other point is how they view the economy. There really isn't much daylight between them. Quote The governor has repeatedly suggested that younger people and those who have recovered from the virus, potentially developing immunity, could start returning to work sooner than the broader population. “The smartest way forward is a modified public health strategy that dovetails and complements a get-back-to-work strategy,” Cuomo said on Thursday. “Younger people can go back to work, people who’ve resolved can go back to work, people who can get this antibody tests — show they have had the virus and resolved — can go back to work. … It’s not we’re either going to do public health or we’re going to do economic development. We’re going to do both. We have to do both.” There’s no timeline on the plan, which Cuomo has dubbed “NY Forward.” The governor has picked two of his former secretaries: Bill Mulrow, a Blackstone executive, and Steve Cohen, an executive at billionaire Ronald Perelman’s holding company, to craft the plan. The two did not return multiple request for comment. Trump will listen to his health advisers, I have no doubt about that. He will ask them to formulate a way to get people back at work with as minimal of a risk that you can REASONABLY apply. There is always a risk analysis to these sort of decisions, you can't wait until you are 100% without risk because if that was the case there would be no economy. You'd ban everyone from driving because that is a risk. You'd ban people from eating red meats. You'd ban travel. What I'm saying is that there has to be a risk analysis of an acceptable enough risk that takes into account the negative affects of the economic downturn which has all sorts of negative residual effects including health and somehow try to keep people as safe as possible. I believe we will begin seeing some parts of the country which will implement social distancing guidelines phasing in parts of the workforce within a month. 3
Tiberius Posted March 27, 2020 Posted March 27, 2020 5 minutes ago, Magox said: I find it fascinating as I have been saying for days now that Cuomo and Trump truly are not that far apart. Cuomo admits his decision to quarantine everyone at once was 'not the best strategy' and that he is 'working on' release of coronavirus antibody test that will allow people to go back to work Keep in mind, Cuomo didn't shut down the schools until just 11 days ago and the Statue of Liberty, Empire state building and other famous places were open early mid week last week. They didn't even shut down the restaurants until Thursday or Friday of last week. He definitely along with Deblasio resisted in shutting down things. I'm not saying that to blame him, I'm making that point because Trump also resisted at least in rhetoric and downplaying the virus. The other point is how they view the economy. There really isn't much daylight between them. Trump will listen to his health advisers, I have no doubt about that. He will ask them to formulate a way to get people back at work with as minimal of a risk that you can REASONABLY apply. There is always a risk analysis to these sort of decisions, you can't wait until you are 100% without risk because if that was the case there would be no economy. You'd ban everyone from driving because that is a risk. You'd ban people from eating red meats. You'd ban travel. What I'm saying is that there has to be a risk analysis of an acceptable enough risk that takes into account the negative affects of the economic downturn which has all sorts of negative residual effects including health and somehow try to keep people as safe as possible. I believe we will begin seeing some parts of the country which will implement social distancing guidelines phasing in parts of the workforce within a month. No, I still disagree. Trump is more like his friend DeSantis in Florida who isn’t doing enough. Cuomo is more focused on fighting the epidemic and then restarting the economy, where Trump is much more concerned about quickly restarting the economy. I mean Trump was talking about opening the churches on Easter, that’s reckless
B-Man Posted March 27, 2020 Posted March 27, 2020 Not unlike Cuomo, but just watch the reaction to this: Trump Administration to Issue Guidelines for Classifying U.S. Counties by Coronavirus Risk: Criteria designed to help local officials decide whether to increase or relax social-distancing rules. The term "sacrificing" will be used. . . 1
Numark3 Posted March 27, 2020 Posted March 27, 2020 20 minutes ago, Tiberius said: He isn’t listening to the doctors he doesn’t say “will” in the video, just that it is the goal 1
Doc Brown Posted March 27, 2020 Posted March 27, 2020 6 hours ago, SoCal Deek said: Doc, we make those choices every day we get in our cars, or on an airplane, or turn on the heater in our homes...or shake hands. Over the years we’ve made all sorts of adjustments to make life safer amidst the risks that come with a modern society. You don’t even think about the vast majority of those risks when you walk out the door each morning. This pandemic will likely require some risk taking and some societal changes. We do but the major difference is we're taking those chances. I'd feel horrible if I carried the virus without any symptoms and then spread it to my father in law who died because he's above 80 with heart problems. We can't just rush back from this until the curve is flattened enough where the benefits of going back to life as usual outweighs the potential loss of life from this virus. We just need more data, research, and patience at this point. It's also important we do everything we can do help small business owners as they're the one's feeling the financial impact of this the most. Ordering take out from local traditional dine in restaurants is something I think we can all do. Stuff like that. 1
Magox Posted March 27, 2020 Author Posted March 27, 2020 32 minutes ago, Crayola64 said: he doesn’t say “will” in the video, just that it is the goal He's either willfully being a partisan and being dishonest about it, or he's an idiot. One or the other. Which is why I don't respond when he replies with idiocy. When he actually responds with some sort of semblance of a rational and honest thought, I reply back.
IDBillzFan Posted March 27, 2020 Posted March 27, 2020 34 minutes ago, Crayola64 said: he doesn’t say “will” in the video, just that it is the goal I'll post this again: if you are watching what is going on in this world, and the only thing you can contribute to the conversation is to blame people for something over which you have no control, then STFU and let the adults get back to work. People like @Tiberius can only complain. They can only second-guess. They can only flail around mindlessly screaming gibberish and wasting time. They will forever be part of the problem, and never be part of the solution.
Magox Posted March 27, 2020 Author Posted March 27, 2020 5 minutes ago, Doc Brown said: We do but the major difference is we're taking those chances. I'd feel horrible if I carried the virus without any symptoms and then spread it to my father in law who died because he's above 80 with heart problems. We can't just rush back from this until the curve is flattened enough where the benefits of going back to life as usual outweighs the potential loss of life from this virus. We just need more data, research, and patience at this point. It's also important we do everything we can do help small business owners as they're the one's feeling the financial impact of this the most. Ordering take out from local traditional dine in restaurants is something I think we can all do. Stuff like that. The problem Doc, is that once the "curve is flattened" the risks that you just cited about being asymptomatic and not wanting to infect other people, they don't go away. That will still remain. Flattening the curve is only about one thing and one thing only. Not inundating the hospitals so that it affects capacity. The risk of that will always exist until the Virus is either dead or people are able to be vaccinated. With that said, I do agree, there needs to be more data. The Health experts Fauci and Birx are both saying over and over that they are learning a lot about it and are gathering that data. I believe that whatever Trump decides will have the approval of Birx and Fauci. And again, as I have said over and over, ultimately it will be up to the governors. The governors have access to Dr. Fauci and Dr Birx. And then EVEN after that, it then is up to each company after the governors. So there are two more checks in place. All the Federal government can do is provide federal guidance.
SoCal Deek Posted March 27, 2020 Posted March 27, 2020 1 hour ago, Doc Brown said: We do but the major difference is we're taking those chances. I'd feel horrible if I carried the virus without any symptoms and then spread it to my father in law who died because he's above 80 with heart problems. The guy you crash into could be 80 years old. The choices we make every single day have become so common place we don’t even know we’re making them. Every time you eat in a restaurant, or even in your kitchen, you’re trusting that someone up the line didn’t do something they weren’t supposed to do. (Maybe a bit too philosophical but at some point in this ‘crisis’ you’re going to have to take the risk and cross the river! Just like the antelope do even knowing there’s alligators in the water) 1
Doc Brown Posted March 27, 2020 Posted March 27, 2020 1 hour ago, Magox said: The problem Doc, is that once the "curve is flattened" the risks that you just cited about being asymptomatic and not wanting to infect other people, they don't go away. That will still remain. Flattening the curve is only about one thing and one thing only. Not inundating the hospitals so that it affects capacity. The risk of that will always exist until the Virus is either dead or people are able to be vaccinated. With that said, I do agree, there needs to be more data. The Health experts Fauci and Birx are both saying over and over that they are learning a lot about it and are gathering that data. I believe that whatever Trump decides will have the approval of Birx and Fauci. And again, as I have said over and over, ultimately it will be up to the governors. The governors have access to Dr. Fauci and Dr Birx. And then EVEN after that, it then is up to each company after the governors. So there are two more checks in place. All the Federal government can do is provide federal guidance. I pry wasn't clear in that I don't want to jump the gun and go about as life as usual when there's still an uptick in cases in order to overwhelm the hospitals leading to loss of lives that could've been saved. After the curve is flattened significantly only then should we talk about the pros and cons of getting back to work and a normal life. I'm hoping researchers can develop a blood test looking at antibodies to determine whether you've already had the virus and are more likely to be immune from it. That may be an eventual criteria by some companies to allow you to come back to work. Of course more studies have to be done about how strong these antibodies are in preventing reinfection. 11 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: The guy you crash into could be 80 years old. The choices we make every single day have become so common place we don’t even know we’re making them. Every time you eat in a restaurant, or even in your kitchen, you’re trusting that someone up the line didn’t do something they weren’t supposed to do. (Maybe a bit too philosophical but at some point in this ‘crisis’ you’re going to have to take the risk and cross the river! Just like the antelope do even knowing there’s alligators in the water) Just because my avatar is Doc Brown doesn't mean I'm a reckless driver who likes to go 88 mph. I agree with you but you made it sound from your post that we should just open everything up immediately.
Magox Posted March 27, 2020 Author Posted March 27, 2020 1 minute ago, Doc Brown said: I pry wasn't clear in that I don't want to jump the gun and go about as life as usual when there's still an uptick in cases in order to overwhelm the hospitals leading to loss of lives that could've been saved. After the curve is flattened significantly only then should we talk about the pros and cons of getting back to work and a normal life. I'm hoping researchers can develop a blood test looking at antibodies to determine whether you've already had the virus and are more likely to be immune from it. That may be an eventual criteria by some companies to allow you to come back to work. Of course more studies have to be done about how strong these antibodies are in preventing reinfection. That's the thing....Flattening the curve where? Each Urban area is essentially it's own affected location. By the time this is over with there will be some sort of outbreak in probably 20-40 different urban areas throughout the country. Truth be told, I think it's going to be the weather more than anything that will lower infection rates throughout the country. I think the South is going to be in better shape than the north. But I also believe population density will also play a role. Less urban areas will most likely experience less outbreaks than urban areas. I wouldn't be surprised that you see predominately southern and less urban populated areas beginning the ramp up of the work force. I think about a month from now you will see the first signs of it and from there pick up at a pretty decent pace. I could be wrong. 1
Chef Jim Posted March 27, 2020 Posted March 27, 2020 3 hours ago, Tiberius said: He isn’t listening to the doctors He said will will open by Easter?? You making ***** up again?? 3 hours ago, Crayola64 said: he doesn’t say “will” in the video, just that it is the goal He said “hope”. We always say hope isn’t a strategy.
SoCal Deek Posted March 27, 2020 Posted March 27, 2020 1 hour ago, Doc Brown said: Just because my avatar is Doc Brown doesn't mean I'm a reckless driver who likes to go 88 mph. I agree with you but you made it sound from your post that we should just open everything up immediately. I apologize if I wasn't clear. The point is that there are risks around you every minute of every day. The current risk will not go away until there's a CURE/VACCINE (not a TEST) for this disease. There's zero chance we're keeping the country on lock down until then. All sorts of people working even now. The streets are not void of cars! It's all a matter of measuring the level of risk. What I'd really like is for the Media to stop rooting for a bigger crisis all in the name of ratings and viewership. It's not helping in any way. God forbid we ever have to fight a war on our home shores! People will be cowering in their homes, much like panic induced by the original radio broadcast of the War of the Worlds...so I've read.
B-Man Posted March 29, 2020 Posted March 29, 2020 NY Gov. Cuomo: Not Sure Keeping Everyone Home Is the ‘Best Public Health Strategy’ .
Q-baby! Posted March 29, 2020 Posted March 29, 2020 On 3/27/2020 at 6:14 PM, Chef Jim said: He said will will open by Easter?? You making ***** up again?? He said “hope”. We always say hope isn’t a strategy. Trump is a ***** moron for even mentioning that. Just like when he said 15 cases and will be down to zero in a few days. Almost like a “chef” giving financial advice!
Chef Jim Posted March 29, 2020 Posted March 29, 2020 18 minutes ago, Q-baby! said: Trump is a ***** moron for even mentioning that. Just like when he said 15 cases and will be down to zero in a few days. Almost like a “chef” giving financial advice! How about a financial advisor giving cooking advice? ?
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