There should be a national dialogue in getting back to work

[Boatdrinks]

49 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said:

I suggest all the big talkers about sacrificing lives for the sake of the stock market should declare the type of jobs they have. 

The economy problem starts with all the baby mba'ers on wall street who discount stock prices of great companies based onTrump sneezing not 20 years of success. 

Same people created the lead up to the 2008 crisis. Remember derivatives.

 

Wrong. This economy problem isn’t about the banking system or the stock market, really. It’s about the fact that hardly anyone is working. They may not have a job to come back to, and the only place you can spend any money ( if you have it) is the grocery store and gas station. This is about Main Street, not Wall Street. The stock market is reacting to the massive losses and uncertain future. 

6 minutes ago, Bakin said:

Back In the day we used to have smoking sections in restaurants. 
Maybe now we will have a senior citizen section?  Or a COVID+ section?

The Covid 19 section should be outdoors or at home until there is a vaccine and everyone else develops herd immunity. 

[GG]

As of today, there's only one bank that still on Wall Street.  But there are a hell of a lot of small businesses on it that are shut down, with the lowest paid people feeling the maximum pain.

[Bakin]

2 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Wrong. This economy problem isn’t about the banking system or the stock market, really. It’s about the fact that hardly anyone is working. They may not have a job to come back to, and the only place you can spend any money ( if you have it) is the grocery store and gas station. This is about Main Street, not Wall Street. The stock market is reacting to the massive losses and uncertain future. 

The Covid 19 section should be outdoors or at home until there is a vaccine and everyone else develops herd immunity. 

I like the first comment. 
I would still like to a see a senior citizen section of restaurants. Keep em away .... have you seen some of ‘em eat soup?

kids (under the age of 6) should never be allowed in restaurants, either. 

[unbillievable]

The new stimulus Bill is over $2 Trillion. That is enough to give every single person, (man, woman, child, and baby in the USA) $7000. What exactly are they wasting 1.7 Trillion on?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, unbillievable said:

The new stimulus Bill is over $2 Trillion. That is enough to give every single person, (man, woman, child, and baby in the USA) $7000. What exactly are they wasting 1.7 Trillion on?

 

2 trillion dollars. Good God.

[unbillievable]

Jokingly, a co-worker proposed putting anyone over 60 in isolation camps.

I thought about how logical that sounded.

....so this is how those other regimes started.

[Boatdrinks]

5 minutes ago, Bakin said:

I like the first comment. 
I would still like to a see a senior citizen section of restaurants. Keep em away .... have you seen some of ‘em eat soup?

kids (under the age of 6) should never be allowed in restaurants, either. 

I just don’t know if it would be practical, as there will be many others in the restaurant including servers etc. Hey, I’d love it if under age 6 were never allowed in restaurants and that has nothing to do with Coronavirus. 

[IDBillzFan]

2 hours ago, 32ABBA said:

I live in Los Angeles, away from all my relatives, who live in BUffalo. I don't know a single elderly person that I have any regular contact with. Considering how many young people move here alone, I'm confident that there are MANY other people who don't have regular contact with elderly people. I think it's reasonable to figure out some way to isolate the high risk people, and continue to work on efficiently identifying the carriers.

 

I'm told Biden is working on a revised version of his Cash for Clunkers Program.

 

Young people can bring elderly people to Joe, and he'll give them cash in exchange for leaving the elderly behind and making them listen to him as he tries to complete a full sentence.

[TPS]

3 hours ago, Magox said:

There needs to be a national dialogue about this. Unfortunately with the way Trump oafishly says things and the way the media likes to cover the minutia of his words as opposed to the substance of it, it is nearly impossible to have that dialogue.

 

At some point, the country will need to begin phasing back in the workforce. We just need to know what the metrics that they will be looking at, how a phased in workforce would look like and what the risks would be?

 

The economic cost of a protracted downturn is mind bending, but there is a human health component to it as well. The 2008 downturn according to studies caused over 12,000 suicides and Tens of thousands of indirect deaths due to added stress which lowers people's immune systems that makes those with heart and cancer afflictions specially at risk.  This DOES NOT HAVE TO BE A BINARY CHOICE! - It does NOT HAVE TO BE ONE OR THE OTHER. There is a responsible way to decide when we can begin this and how it would look like. For those of you that are interested in seeing this Harvard study on the impacts of protracted unemployment to people's health you can read that here.

 

 

 

 

The shut down will be maybe 2 months.  A rescue package done right would make sure that everyone is taken care of to a certain degree during that time period. The right way is to fund the majority of the wages for businesses as long as they retain their workers.  Keep the workforce attached and ready for the recovery, which will hopefully be quick.  This isn't like the 2008 crisis where many lost their jobs and houses, leading to much more stress, and the rescue package was insufficient as well.  

 

I don't disagree with your point about the discussion, but they are two very different situations when comparing the impact from the 2008 crisis to the corona-crisis.

[Niagara Bill]

1 hour ago, Magox said:

 

This is the sort of vapid talk that I do not miss in PPP.

 

But something for you to chew on how unemployment layoffs disproportionately hurts blacks and latinos

 

But carry on.

 

 

 

 

I really don't know what a gradual phasing in and guidance would look like.   My guess is that Trump is using his instincts to pit himself against the media knowing that by the time they actually begin to implement this phase in that the media will be on the wrong side of public sentiment.

 

With that said, public sentiment I'm sure is not ready to get back to work at this time.  They have been shell-shocked with social distancing and 24/7 news related to the Virus.  It's going to take some coaxing.

 

And unlike Cuomo, who can in detail explain things with empathy and data, Trump will have to somehow get the communication out that there is a coherent plan that has his medical team somehow on board.

 

I'm guessing that there is very little chance that most of the economy will roar right back.  I think it will be a regional approach, areas that are showing that they have things in control will be the first to get the go ahead's from their governors.   And state by state the governors will have too much pressure to get their workforce to get back to work.  I would think that they will advise for the elderly and those with pre existing afflictions to be extra careful and not go out unless necessary.  Which is very unfair but I'm guessing that will be on the table.  

 

And then the same jazz with the washing of hands, not shaking hands etc etc.

 

But, truth be told, I think they will need to have some sort of data of the mortality rates.  Right now the mortality rates are showing here in the U.S as 1.25%.  But it's actually a whole lot lower than that.  There are studies out there that show that the amount of people who have contracted the VIRUS who have gone undetected is anywhere from 500-1000%.  It makes sense because they are predominately testing those who are sickest and showing the most symptoms.  

 

It would be good if they could do random mass sampling throughout the country to get a good idea of what the actual contracted infected rate is along with the other data points that they have amassed and get the actual mortality rates.  My guess is that the actual mortality rate here in the U.S will probably be around .3%.  Most likely for those under 60 without health conditions it will be about as benign as the common flu and for those with respiratory, heart and cancer afflictions that it will be considerably more deadly.

 

But I think getting a true gauge of the mortality rate will play a long way in restoring public confidence to get them back to work.

 

I also don't think they guidance from the government will be ready by Easter.  I'm guessing about 4-8 weeks from now.

Seriously, the black Latino card. Do you read the USA TODAY AND BELIEVE IN THEIR SURVEYS.!!

Gee, it hurts the homeless more? so you can save vent soace in NYC. (Sarc)

You have to choose. Money or citizens.

I love the small business man, his desire, his risk, and he she deserves assistance. The big guys are being hurt by the mba'ers on wall street.

 

[Niagara Bill]

1 hour ago, unbillievable said:

Jokingly, a co-worker proposed putting anyone over 60 in isolation camps.

I thought about how logical that sounded.

....so this is how those other regimes started.

Then who would go to work, millennials...haha

They show up 3 days  a week, can these camps be at club med...or are your suggesting a Nazi like environment.

[Magox]

1 hour ago, TPS said:

The shut down will be maybe 2 months.  A rescue package done right would make sure that everyone is taken care of to a certain degree during that time period. The right way is to fund the majority of the wages for businesses as long as they retain their workers.  Keep the workforce attached and ready for the recovery, which will hopefully be quick.  This isn't like the 2008 crisis where many lost their jobs and houses, leading to much more stress, and the rescue package was insufficient as well.  

 

I don't disagree with your point about the discussion, but they are two very different situations when comparing the impact from the 2008 crisis to the corona-crisis.

I don’t know how long the shut down will be but as I mentioned even before their briefer that I thought it would some sort of phase in and it would be geographical. And it certainly won’t be a one size fits all approach.   If I had to guess there will be some states that will begin to ramp up sooner than 2 months and other states beyond that.

 

I think weather will play a factor along with the introduction of some therapeutics that will probably shorten the time period.   But as I said earlier, all the federal government really do is provide guidance.  It will ultimately be up to to state governments and businesses.

Edited March 25, 2020 by Magox

[SoCal Deek]

Here’s how it will go down. When people run out of money they will take matters into their own hands to feed their families. I’m guessing this will start sooner than many think and it isn’t going to be pretty. But faced with the choice of starving to death or getting a cold.....I think you know the choice most will make!

[Chef Jim]

Here it’s “Safer at Home”. For me it’s “More Productive at Work”.  I went in to the office for a couple hours. Ended up being there for 10. 

[SoCal Deek]

1 minute ago, Chef Jim said:

Here it’s “Safer at Home”. For me it’s “More Productive at Work”.  I went in to the office for a couple hours. Ended up being there for 10. 

And so it begins. 

[Chef Jim]

1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said:

And so it begins. 

Well we are discussing whether or not we are considered essential. I didn’t go to the office to feed my family. I’m making money regardless. I can just be more beneficial to my clients at the office. And I have an office of 16 but I was the only one there. So I’m safe. 

[B-Man]

As for the country opening, it’s certainly true that there must be a balance between prevention and economic function.

 

As many — including the President — have pointed out, people need to work in order to provide for their families.

“Our people want to return to work. They will practice Social Distancing and all else, and Seniors will be watched over protectively & lovingly. We can do two things together. THE CURE CANNOT BE WORSE (by far) THAN THE PROBLEM! Congress MUST ACT NOW. We will come back strong!”

 

 

As I put in the other thread, this is what trying to discuss the next phase and saving people's jobs gets you.

 

Pelosi Reacts to Trump’s Hope of Reopening the Country Like a Petulant Child: ‘I Don’t Care! I Don’t Care! I Don’t Care!’

 

 

.

[SoCal Deek]

1 minute ago, Chef Jim said:

Well we are discussing whether or not we are considered essential. I didn’t go to the office to feed my family. I’m making money regardless. I can just be more beneficial to my clients at the office. And I have an office of 16 but I was the only one there. So I’m safe. 

Couldn’t agree more. People are going to start releasing themselves from quarantine day by day. I was driving down the street this afternoon and saw a woman getting new tires put on her car. I thought....I’d that necessary? You’ll see more and more of it every week. 

[B-Man]

1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said:

Couldn’t agree more. People are going to start releasing themselves from quarantine day by day. I was driving down the street this afternoon and saw a woman getting new tires put on her car. I thought....I’d that necessary? You’ll see more and more of it every week. 

 

Perhaps she is a physician who needs new tires ?

 

I am in complete agreement with keeping everyone on as absolute a quarantine as we can.

 

But that doesn't preclude everyone from discussion on how we can gradually get people back to work.

 

Save your dying for wall street hashtags, we can see right through your false face.

 

 

.

[Alphadawg7]

5 hours ago, Magox said:

There needs to be a national dialogue about this. Unfortunately with the way Trump oafishly says things and the way the media likes to cover the minutia of his words as opposed to the substance of it, it is nearly impossible to have that dialogue.

 

At some point, the country will need to begin phasing back in the workforce. We just need to know what the metrics that they will be looking at, how a phased in workforce would look like and what the risks would be?

 

The economic cost of a protracted downturn is mind bending, but there is a human health component to it as well. The 2008 downturn according to studies caused over 12,000 suicides and Tens of thousands of indirect deaths due to added stress which lowers people's immune systems that makes those with heart and cancer afflictions specially at risk.  This DOES NOT HAVE TO BE A BINARY CHOICE! - It does NOT HAVE TO BE ONE OR THE OTHER. There is a responsible way to decide when we can begin this and how it would look like. For those of you that are interested in seeing this Harvard study on the impacts of protracted unemployment to people's health you can read that here.

 

 

 

 

 

If we don't slow the spread down, the death toll can be in the millions, not 12,000.  That is the issue.  No one wants to see the economy crumble, but at the end of the day, life matters more than the Dow and we need to prioritize slowing this down above all else.  People keep talking about the death numbers NOW versus later when discussing these things, and thats just not what this is about.  Death rate is over 4% compared to 0.16% of the flu.  Even if that comes down to 2%, based on the expected amount of infected over the rest of 2020 if not slowed would put the US death toll as high as 2 million people or more.  I assure you there will not be anywhere near those amounts of suicides. 

 

Hopefully, the initiatives work and lowering the curve to a manageable level within our health care system.  And if so, easing back into normal life will begin.  But until that point, going back early isn't going to accomplish anything but make it worse.  Its imperative we do NOT go back too early or this will all have been for nothing and things will only get worse for longer.  

 

And the other thing is, if we go back to early and this gets way worse...the suicide numbers would be a lot higher than just waiting this out the appropriate time given the damage would be substantially worse as this would catastrophic for much much longer.