There should be a national dialogue in getting back to work

[mannc]

10 hours ago, B-Man said:

Report: CDC Considering Relaxing Some Virus Restrictions, Letting Some Return to Work

 

 

.

B-Man, many thanks for this and similar posts on this topic.  Also a special thanks for turning me on to Alex Berenson, who’s Twitter feed on the Coronavirus panic is absolutely invaluable.

[123719bwiqrb]

1 minute ago, Foxx said:

my wife works at a popular arts and crafts big box and she just informed me that stores in that chain, within Pennsylvania have reopened and are allowing shoppers in.

 

That's good.  Just don't tell Karen on Facebook; she is piping mad that anyone can do anything. 

 

I do need some new fabric for the swing lean-to in the backyard, but PA is a little too far to drive for that.

[Foxx]

15 minutes ago, ScotSHO said:

 

That's good.  Just don't tell Karen on Facebook; she is piping mad that anyone can do anything. 

 

I do need some new fabric for the swing lean-to in the backyard, but PA is a little too far to drive for that.

here in NYS, you can order online and either do a curb pick up or have it delivered.

Edited April 9, 2020 by Foxx

[Warren Zevon]

Just now, Foxx said:

here in NYS, you can order online and either do a curb pick up or have  it delivered.

 

I think when this ***** ends stores that keep this practice up will become more popular.

[Magox]

6 minutes ago, Gary Busey said:

 

I think when this ***** ends stores that keep this practice up will become more popular.

 

We have been doing it in our household for about a year now.

 

The company that I work for, my entire team works remotely except one call center in which we have move them all remotely and are considering permanently making that transition.

 

All the trainings, meetings, meeting with vendors etc are all done via Zoom.

 

Thankfully our business is not going to get impacted at all from this, most likely will even benefit not just from a revenue standpoint but even recruiting standpoint.

 

I do think that this Virus will change human behavior along with business practices.  Even for the environmentalists, I do think that the demand for gasoline will drop post Covid 19, as more and more people will work out of home.

Edited April 9, 2020 by Magox

[Foxx]

13 minutes ago, Gary Busey said:

 

I think when this ***** ends stores that keep this practice up will become more popular.

the world we once knew is gone forever. how many things have proved to be outdated? have brick and mortar schools proven that other than being a daycare center and certain hands on things like biology, proven to be unnecessary? what would that do to the whole teachers union? how many businesses can actually work from home? many, many businesses both large and small are not going to come out the other side here. 

Edited April 9, 2020 by Foxx

[SoCal Deek]

11 minutes ago, Foxx said:

the world we once knew is gone forever. how many things have proved to be outdated? have brick and mortar schools proven that other than being a daycare center and certain hands on things like biology, proven to be unnecessary? what would that do to the whole teachers union? how many businesses can actually work from home? many, many businesses both large and small are not going to come out the other side here. 

Excellent discussion Foxx. You have to remember that there’s a social aspect to work, shopping, sports, school and especially worship. While it’s futuristic to envision a world where we all sit in our homes and have drones plop everything at our front door, I’m guessing it’d be a pretty miserable existence. Consider dating for example. How’s anyone going to get together if the government says you can’t meet anyone in public? 
 

This isn’t the first pandemic by a long shot...and it won’t be the last. (WWI was so horrible that it was dubbed the ‘war to end all wars’ but look how that turned out.)

[Foxx]

24 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Excellent discussion Foxx. You have to remember that there’s a social aspect to work, shopping, sports, school and especially worship. While it’s futuristic to envision a world where we all sit in our homes and have drones plop everything at our front door, I’m guessing it’d be a pretty miserable existence. Consider dating for example. How’s anyone going to get together if the government says you can’t meet anyone in public? 
 

This isn’t the first pandemic by a long shot...and it won’t be the last. (WWI was so horrible that it was dubbed the ‘war to end all wars’ but look how that turned out.)

well, now you're getting into the deep end of the pool.

 

it doesn't have to be a bad thing. it can be all about the continued evolution of mankind. look at what happened with the industrial revolution, it freed man to not work as hard, to pursue other more worthwhile endeavours. the same is happening with the transition to the Information Age, though there are surely growing pains, we are freeing man up more than ever. the coming age of Technocracy is perhaps the most scarey and one that will have the most prolonged growing pains but if implemented in the right ways, will be the most rewarding for mankind. my problem with the coming technocracy is that the elite are going to use it to further cement their stranglehold on the plebs (you and i). it doesn't have to be that way though, i'm not sure how we prevent it.

 

choke me in the shallow waters...

Edited April 9, 2020 by Foxx

[RochesterRob]

36 minutes ago, Foxx said:

the world we once knew is gone forever. how many things have proved to be outdated? have brick and mortar schools proven that other than being a daycare center and certain hands on things like biology, proven to be unnecessary? what would that do to the whole teachers union? how many businesses can actually work from home? many, many businesses both large and small are not going to come out the other side here. 

  And just think of how many school districts built palaces in the last 20 years to placate ego inflated superintendents?  Too bad that nearly all of those superintendents  have moved on so they are not available to be tarred and feathered by the taxpayers.  Also, teachers and administrators account for a lot of economic activity in many rural districts.  Compressing staff due to technology will have the effect of depressing home prices and leave businesses such as small grocery stores teetering.

[SoCal Deek]

1 minute ago, Foxx said:

well, now you're getting into the deep end of the pool.

 

it doesn't have to be a bad thing. it can be all about the continued evolution of mankind. look at what happened with the industrial revolution, it freed man to not work as hard, to pursue other more worthwhile endeavours. the same is happening with the transition to the Information Age, though there are surely growing pains, we are freeing man up more than ever. the coming age of Technocracy is perhaps the most scarey and one that will have the most prolonged growing pains but if implemented in the right ways, will be the most rewarding for mankind. my problem with the coming technocracy is that the elite are going to use it to further cement their stranglehold on the plebs (you and i). it doesn't have to be that way though, i'm not sure how we prevent it.

 

choke me in the shallow waters...

Thanks. The deep end of the pool is a way better place than the endless blame game and name calling in the other threads. Again, I see this is yet another evolutionary challenge. There’ll be some changes in society for sure but I highly doubt they’ll override mankind’s natural desire to socialize.  The technology examples you cite gave people more time for leisure. But what happens when we’re instructed not to ‘leisure’? 

[Foxx]

9 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  And just think of how many school districts built palaces in the last 20 years to placate ego inflated superintendents?  Too bad that nearly all of those superintendents  have moved on so they are not available to be tarred and feathered by the taxpayers.  Also, teachers and administrators account for a lot of economic activity in many rural districts.  Compressing staff due to technology will have the effect of depressing home prices and leave businesses such as small grocery stores teetering.

will my school tax liability be reduced?

me thinks not...

[Foxx]

8 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Thanks. The deep end of the pool is a way better place than the endless blame game and name calling in the other threads. Again, I see this is yet another evolutionary challenge. There’ll be some changes in society for sure but I highly doubt they’ll override mankind’s natural desire to socialize.  The technology examples you cite gave people more time for leisure. But what happens when we’re instructed not to ‘leisure’? 

for one thing, they will never be able to mandate socialization out of existence. only man will do that and we have been trending in that direction now for a few years. kids no longer go out and play like they used to. i can't tell you the amount of nice Spring, Summer, Fall days that i could not believe there was noone outside enjoying the fresh air doing something, anything. look at you an i, we are no different right now, sitting here on the 'net, conversing.

 

perhaps part of that evolution means a change of intercourse. of course i don't mean that all physical interaction goes away, but again, it is and has been changing.

[RochesterRob]

19 minutes ago, Foxx said:

will my school tax liability be reduced?

me thinks not...

  If we are serious about adopting technology to replace labor then it should.  The bonds on the books for the fancy school buildings built will be around until paid off or the state declares them invalid.

[B-Man]

 

AUSTRIA WILL BEGIN REOPENING.

 

 

Related: Planning for the reopening of America must begin now.

 

 

More: Charting the Path Back to Semi-Normalcy.

 

 

.

[Deranged Rhino]

 

[SoCal Deek]

4 hours ago, RochesterRob said:

  If we are serious about adopting technology to replace labor then it should.  The bonds on the books for the fancy school buildings built will be around until paid off or the state declares them invalid.

We're seriously gong to have a discussion about the validity of constructing schools?  Really?  You're under the impression that buildings last forever? Here's a hint...the sphinx originally had a nose.

Hey you kids....get off my lawn!

[Koko78]

25 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

We're seriously gong to have a discussion about the validity of constructing schools?  Really?  You're under the impression that buildings last forever? Here's a hint...the sphinx originally had a nose.

Hey you kids....get off my lawn!

 

Yeah, but French artillery doesn't blow off parts of many buildings in the US.

[RochesterRob]

36 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

We're seriously gong to have a discussion about the validity of constructing schools?  Really?  You're under the impression that buildings last forever? Here's a hint...the sphinx originally had a nose.

Hey you kids....get off my lawn!

  By the looks of it I am the only one looking at the issue seriously.  Are you trying to tell me that any WNY district had no buildings to work with whatsoever prior to 20 years ago?  That they are holding classes in the parking lot(s)?  Most districts in WNY are facing declining enrollment as the local populations gray over.  Where there is any growth out in the rural areas the kids are non-traditional origin such as Mennonites who eschew other than the very basics.  They don't need 250K football facility or 100K swimming pool.  For that matter neither did guys such as myself a few decades ago when I was roaming the halls.  The fact is most school buildings are structurally fine but gullible taxpayers get sucked into the notion of needing new for the sake of having new.  The new buildings do not bring anything new in terms of aiding instruction.  The school maintenance dept can bring in whatever is needed so a classroom can have computer functionality in a building built in 1955 or 2005.  The tax base in a lot of districts is eroding and has been.  Lot's of industry that left decades ago never got replaced and districts coasted on the citizens who made their living prior to this decline.  They had their retirements, homes paid off, and could absorb 2-3 percent school tax increases.  Those people such as my parents generation are heading into the nursing home and eventually the cemetery so their contributions will be lost permanently.  What is left are people who are getting paid typically 11.40-15.00 dollars per hour in 2020 before Coronavirus came along.  15.00 dollars per hour might have been fantastic money in 1980 but not in 2020.  State aid?  We all pay for it at some point in the system so there is no free lunch in the end.

[RochesterRob]

32 minutes ago, ScotSHO said:

Well, the firings have starting at my fortune 500 company this week.  So thanks to all the hand wringers, I'll be SOL soon enough.  Didn't start up the economy fast enough.  Bosses forecasted into May before they would have to start mass firings - the hemorrhaging must be much worse than what they were letting on.

 

There is a place where being jobless and dying intersect - hopefully I don't find where that is, but it's out there.

  Sorry to hear about your difficulties.

[reddogblitz]

2 hours ago, RochesterRob said:

  By the looks of it I am the only one looking at the issue seriously.  Are you trying to tell me that any WNY district had no buildings to work with whatsoever prior to 20 years ago?  That they are holding classes in the parking lot(s)?  Most districts in WNY are facing declining enrollment as the local populations gray over.  Where there is any growth out in the rural areas the kids are non-traditional origin such as Mennonites who eschew other than the very basics.  They don't need 250K football facility or 100K swimming pool.  For that matter neither did guys such as myself a few decades ago when I was roaming the halls.  The fact is most school buildings are structurally fine but gullible taxpayers get sucked into the notion of needing new for the sake of having new.  The new buildings do not bring anything new in terms of aiding instruction.  The school maintenance dept can bring in whatever is needed so a classroom can have computer functionality in a building built in 1955 or 2005.  The tax base in a lot of districts is eroding and has been.  Lot's of industry that left decades ago never got replaced and districts coasted on the citizens who made their living prior to this decline.  They had their retirements, homes paid off, and could absorb 2-3 percent school tax increases.  Those people such as my parents generation are heading into the nursing home and eventually the cemetery so their contributions will be lost permanently.  What is left are people who are getting paid typically 11.40-15.00 dollars per hour in 2020 before Coronavirus came along.  15.00 dollars per hour might have been fantastic money in 1980 but not in 2020.  State aid?  We all pay for it at some point in the system so there is no free lunch in the end.

 

I don't disagree with much of what you say.  Technologically we could close ALL schools  tomorrow and replace them with distance learning.  Absolutely could happen.

 

But the question to ask is SHOULD it happen.

 

First off, it will be more expensive than you are think IMHO.  Presently the delivery is being done on a wing and prayer with Zoom or recorded sessions.  My neighbor who is a teacher was telling me about this from 6' away.  If we were to go to this full time, there would be massive technology infrastructure that would need to be bought and then have maintenance fees and upgrades forever.  Technology often makes money savings claims but they also introduce huge costs.

 

But the real question I have is, what is the effect on learning for going this route?  Do some kids learn worse online than for in person classes?  What about retention of what's learned?  What about the ability to deliver complex topics like chemistry online effectively?  No more chemistry labs. 

 

As a computer person I have gone to a lot of classes.  I have also done a lot of online classes.  As far as learning goes, the in person classes offer much better learning and retention and it's not even close.

 

When this online stuff first started up (1999) I asked a vendor if he had studies on learning  and retention between online and in person classes.  They didn't.  I wonder if anyone does now?

 

Not saying it can't happen but seriously question if it should.