There should be a national dialogue in getting back to work

[Tiberius]

On 3/27/2020 at 2:14 PM, Tiberius said:

He isn’t listening to the doctors 

 

 

While saying in private how deadly it is. He hates regular people, thinks they are just animals, He wants to push people back out for his own purposes, he can care less if they get sick and die

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

6 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

 

And here’s the flaw in your approach.  What’s killing businesses?  Aside from movie theaters and like entertainment venues, it’s not government regulations.  It’s the lack of consumer confidence.  Gyms are not barring people at the door because of limited capacity.  Restaurants don’t have wait lines where I live.  It’s one thing to open the doors, it’s another thing to get people to want to pass through the doors.  And that consumer confidence will not come back until we get the virus under control.  Bottom line.  

 

I understand your point.  Considered, and rejected. Governmental regulation and threat of adverse consequences has a direct and significant impact on the business climate.  

[SectionC3]

Just now, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

 

I understand your point.  Considered, and rejected. Governmental regulation and threat of adverse consequences has a direct and significant impact on the business climate.  

 

But is it the most significant effect?  Or it’s he most significant threat the health concerns of the public?  And what are the “adverse consequences” of which you speak?

[The Frankish Reich]

37 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

 

I understand your point.  Considered, and rejected. Governmental regulation and threat of adverse consequences has a direct and significant impact on the business climate.  

I also see this where I live. Indoor dining is allowed at 50% capacity, but I've waited up to an hour for an outdoor table while a bunch of tables are empty inside. The message that "outdoor is safer" has sunk into the consciousness of (most) people. And think about an adverse consequence: you can get sued if someone gets sick after eating indoors at your restaurant or drinking indoors at your bar or working out at your gym. That's why we've seen various proposals for immunity from lawsuits -- kind of a safe harbor rule. We can argue about whether lawsuits should be allowed when people should understand the risk (but what about secondary/downstream infections? they didn't assume any risk), but the fact is that's been our system in the United States, and the business needs to insure against it. Despite the well publicized frat party videos, I think it's fair to assume that most college students who've become infected were behaving perfectly reasonably, and still they got it -- over 1,000 cases at some universities. It is a case of weighing the risk/cost against the benefit of various activities, agreed. But I can't agree that this needs to be solely an individual decision; it can't be, because individual decisions here have societal ramifications. We need governance. Good, sensible governance, which is why I do object to largely symbolic restrictions (e.g., banning any attendance at capacity-controlled outdoor events like football games seems silly to me and tends to breed discontent with any kind of restriction).

[BullBuchanan]

This thread is aging well I see
 

tImE tO gEt bAcK tO nOrMaL
- Americans, March 2020

Edited September 11, 2020 by BullBuchanan

[Buffalo_Gal]

Now do New York State!!
 

Pennsylvania's pandemic restrictions are unconstitutional, judge rules

Lawsuit was filed by Butler, Greene, Washington and Fayette counties
 

Pennsylvania Gov. Tom Wolf's closing of "non-life-sustaining" businesses and restrictions on gatherings during the COVID-19 pandemic were ruled unconstitutional by a federal judge on Monday.
 

"We're aware of the ruling and are reviewing the decision," a spokesperson for the governor's office said Monday afternoon.
 

</snip>
 

Stickman, an appointee of President Donald Trump, wrote in his ruling that the Wolf administration's pandemic policies have been overreaching, arbitrary and violated citizens' constitutional rights.
 

Stickman ruled in favor of individual and business plaintiffs, and he dismissed the county governments from the case. Individuals who won the favorable ruling include U.S. Rep. Mike Kelly, R-Pa.; state Rep. Daryl Metcalfe, R-Butler; and various businesses including hair salons and the Starlight Drive-In.
 

The declaratory judgment says
"(1) that the congregate gathering limits imposed by defendants' mitigation orders violate the right of assembly enshrined in the First Amendment;
(2) that the stay-at-home and business closure components of defendants' orders violate the due process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment; and
(3) that the business closure components of defendants' orders violate the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment."
 

</snip>

[Buffalo_Gal]

 

[Hedge]

 

 

[Hedge]

 

 

Quote

The coronavirus cases on lower Broadway may have been so low that the mayor’s office and the metro health department decided to keep it secret.

Emails between the mayor’s senior advisor and the health department reveal only a partial picture. But what they reveal is disturbing.

The discussion involves the low number of coronavirus cases emerging from bars and restaurants and how to handle that.and most disturbingly how to keep it from the public.

 

[BillStime]

Trump should do his job

 

 

[B-Man]

 ‘There was zero probability going forward’: Tommy Bartlett Show to permanently close after 69 years. 

 

 

UPDATE: From the comments:

That’s the thing about the pandemic and shutting down businesses. The government thinks that they can shut them down, and months later they can open back up. Most politicians have no idea what it takes to run a business. Many businesses work on a shoestring, paying employees as revenue comes in. And when that stops they can’t pay people, and those people have to go somewhere else, and the business is ruined.

 

But don’t worry, the politicians are still getting paid. Jackass Gavin Newsom is still getting paid. The useless health director of Los Angeles, Barbara Ferrer, is still getting over $600,000 per year. So our ruling class is fine.

 

Well, that’s a relief.

 

 

 

 

[B-Man]

 

 

COLLATERAL DAMAGE: 

 

Yelp data shows 60% of business closures due to the coronavirus pandemic are now permanent.

 

 

 

 

[Uncle Joe]

On 9/16/2020 at 8:02 AM, Hedge said:

 

 

 

21 hours ago, Uncle Joe said:

Now Oregon's governor is allowing college football to have a health advisory exemption; Gotta keep up with the Big Ten.
Meanwhile she is till fining small businesses. Put it here because of the knee jerk reaction by our liberal governor.
https://www.oregonlive.com/collegefootball/2020/09/oregon-gov-kate-brown-oha-grant-exemption-for-uo-osu-sports-pending-approval-of-pac-12-plans.html
https://www.statesmanjournal.com/story/news/2020/09/16/osha-fined-cafe-22-west-failure-protect-employees-covid-19/5818841002/

Asst to Kate Brown: You have a phone call on line 1.
Kate: I'm busy. I have this cafe owner on HWY 22 not following my rules.

Asst to Kate Brown: He said it's urgent. It's Phil.
Kate: I said. I'm BUSY.
Asst to Kate Brown: It's Phil Knight.
Kate: Hi Phil. Ok, Ok Ok, But I told Gavin and Jay that our coalition would be strong and no public gatherings until after the election.
(SILENCE)
I'll have an exemption for you tomorrow after I get my hair done.

Edited September 18, 2020 by Uncle Joe

[Buffalo_Gal]

It has been obvious to many for a while now. Exactly what do the "blue state governors" think they are accomplishing, other than ticking off, bankrupting, and harming their state residents?

 

 

[Just Joshin']

15 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

It has been obvious to many for a while now. Exactly what do the "blue state governors" think they are accomplishing, other than ticking off, bankrupting, and harming their state residents?

 

 

I get the local Texas paper electronically while I am in WNY for the summer.  it is filled with help wanted ads.  The local papers here, not so much.  Leadership by a Governor makes a difference. 

 

Texas also protected the nursing homes, NY moved sick people into them.  While a Texas resident, I am thinking of selling the WNY place so I don't have to deal with the poor NYS  leadership.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

On 9/17/2020 at 11:57 AM, B-Man said:

 

 

COLLATERAL DAMAGE: 

 

Yelp data shows 60% of business closures due to the coronavirus pandemic are now permanent.

 

 

 

 

 

...read an article said that 63% of the NYC 27,000 restaurants will close for good...ONE CITY......now calculate the lost sales tax revenues and lost fees for liquor licenses...maybe Big Fredo will donate his book proceeds......

[Buffalo_Gal]

 

 

 

[Buffalo_Gal]

On 9/14/2020 at 3:54 PM, Buffalo_Gal said:

Now do New York State!!
 

Pennsylvania's pandemic restrictions are unconstitutional, judge rules

Lawsuit was filed by Butler, Greene, Washington and Fayette counties
 

Pennsylvania Gov. Tom Wolf's closing of "non-life-sustaining" businesses and restrictions on gatherings during the COVID-19 pandemic were ruled unconstitutional by a federal judge on Monday.
 

"We're aware of the ruling and are reviewing the decision," a spokesperson for the governor's office said Monday afternoon.
 

</snip>
 

Stickman, an appointee of President Donald Trump, wrote in his ruling that the Wolf administration's pandemic policies have been overreaching, arbitrary and violated citizens' constitutional rights.
 

Stickman ruled in favor of individual and business plaintiffs, and he dismissed the county governments from the case. Individuals who won the favorable ruling include U.S. Rep. Mike Kelly, R-Pa.; state Rep. Daryl Metcalfe, R-Butler; and various businesses including hair salons and the Starlight Drive-In.
 

The declaratory judgment says
"(1) that the congregate gathering limits imposed by defendants' mitigation orders violate the right of assembly enshrined in the First Amendment;
(2) that the stay-at-home and business closure components of defendants' orders violate the due process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment; and
(3) that the business closure components of defendants' orders violate the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment."
 

</snip>

 

Wolf said they will appeal ...

Federal judge declines to stay this ruling   
 

 

 

[Deranged Rhino]

 

[BillStime]

47 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

If only Trump didn’t ignore his intelligence in 2019

Edited September 23, 2020 by BillStime