DrDawkinstein Posted March 25, 2020 Posted March 25, 2020 2 hours ago, Nanker said: So Cam was released? What charges was he being held for? Smiling and dancing... arrogantly 2
dave mcbride Posted March 25, 2020 Posted March 25, 2020 20 hours ago, inaugural balls said: Dalton is better. Period. ??? - It'd be nice if people actually looked at data before making these claims. Dalton's best season in terms of AV (average value) was 14, which would have qualified for Newton's 6th best season. He brings so much to the table with his run game and ability to score on running plays, and I feel like some fans simply resent having to factor that into the evaluation of a QB's play (which is funny because of, you know, Josh Allen). Christ, someone in this thread actually said that Carson Palmer had a better 2015 season than Newton. I mean, jeez: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201601240car.htm. The dislike for Newton among some folks on this board cripples their ability to fairly evaluate him. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/N/NewtCa00.htm https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DaltAn00.htm 3
stinky finger Posted March 25, 2020 Posted March 25, 2020 2 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: ??? - It'd be nice if people actually looked at data before making these claims. Dalton's best season in terms of AV (average value) was 14, which would have qualified for Newton's 6th best season. He brings so much to the table with his run game and ability to score on running plays, and I feel like some fans simply resent having to factor that into the evaluation of a QB's play (which is funny because of, you know, Josh Allen). Christ, someone in this thread actually said that Carson Palmer had a better 2015 season than Newton. I mean, jeez: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201601240car.htm. The dislike for Newton among some folks on this board cripples their ability to fairly evaluate him. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/N/NewtCa00.htm https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DaltAn00.htm Ok - but I'm looking forward. Dalton will be better. Data? Newton is better because of past performance? I'd trust Dalton more moving forward.
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 25, 2020 Posted March 25, 2020 10 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: Smiling and dancing... arrogantly Don’t forgot his post game outfits too!!! they are pretty awful but the stuff people hold against Cam is hilarious. 1
DrDawkinstein Posted March 25, 2020 Posted March 25, 2020 8 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: ??? - It'd be nice if people actually looked at data before making these claims. Dalton's best season in terms of AV (average value) was 14, which would have qualified for Newton's 6th best season. He brings so much to the table with his run game and ability to score on running plays, and I feel like some fans simply resent having to factor that into the evaluation of a QB's play (which is funny because of, you know, Josh Allen). Christ, someone in this thread actually said that Carson Palmer had a better 2015 season than Newton. I mean, jeez: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201601240car.htm. The dislike for Newton among some folks on this board cripples their ability to fairly evaluate him. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/N/NewtCa00.htm https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DaltAn00.htm Exactly. No idea how anyone could watch the NFL over the last 8 years and think Dalton has EVER ONCE been better than Cam (even at Cam's worst). AJ Green has made Dalton's career, because when in doubt, chuck it up to AJ. In 2015, Cam lead the Panthers to a 15-1 record, passed for almost 4000yds and 35 TDs (with another 10TDs on the ground), with Ted Ginn and Jericho Cotchery as his top WRs. 2
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 25, 2020 Posted March 25, 2020 6 minutes ago, inaugural balls said: Ok - but I'm looking forward. Dalton will be better. Data? Newton is better because of past performance? I'd trust Dalton more moving forward. I’m someone who feels Dalton has gotten a bad rap. He’s had a solid career. But if healthy, Newton is a top 10 qb and has never had close to a receiver like Green. Carolina did a terrible job surrounding him with quality receivers until DJ Moore. 28 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said: I like Josh but there’s clearly still questions about him. Not saying Newton should be brought in right now, but if he lingers on the market, is humbled, and in the right frame of mind, it’d be negligent for Beane not to kick the tires. If Josh struggles or gets injured, the season is effectively over. Personally, I don’t think you should even stop looking for QBs until you for sure have one. So i would try to get as many good qbs as you can. Qbs like Newton never appear on waivers unless injuries happen so it could be smart to grab him. at the same point, it could be a disaster if Allen struggles. But you need to be better than Matt Barkley. 4 hours ago, prissythecat said: +1 Thats why he was never a good QB. Great athlete sure. But thats not whats important for being a QB in the long run. You’re describing Allen except he’s been a worse passer than Newton. So is he just a great athlete and never going to be a good qb? You know Newton, the bad passer who broke Peyton Manning’s rookie passing records. 2
stinky finger Posted March 25, 2020 Posted March 25, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: I’m someone who feels Dalton has gotten a bad rap. He’s had a solid career. But if healthy, Newton is a top 10 qb and has never had close to a receiver like Green. Carolina did a terrible job surrounding him with quality receivers until DJ Moore. Agree on Dalton. And yes, Cam has been terrific when healthy. He's taken a pounding and, as a result, has fallen off. If he can't play "his" game then he's played his best ball. I couldn't care less what the data says. Edited March 25, 2020 by inaugural balls
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 25, 2020 Posted March 25, 2020 Just now, inaugural balls said: Agree on Dalton. And yes, Cam has been terrific when healthy. He's taken a pounding and, as a result, has fallen off. If he can't play "his" game then he's played his best ball. I could care less what the data says. He was hitting 67% of his passes (best of his career) and a MVP candidate halfway through the season 2 years ago. He was running less and becoming a better passer.
stinky finger Posted March 25, 2020 Posted March 25, 2020 7 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: Exactly. No idea how anyone could watch the NFL over the last 8 years and think Dalton has EVER ONCE been better than Cam (even at Cam's worst). AJ Green has made Dalton's career, because when in doubt, chuck it up to AJ. In 2015, Cam lead the Panthers to a 15-1 record, passed for almost 4000yds and 35 TDs (with another 10TDs on the ground), with Ted Ginn and Jericho Cotchery as his top WRs. Cam had been better. Look forward. Your second line seems a little oversimplified, however.
DrDawkinstein Posted March 25, 2020 Posted March 25, 2020 16 minutes ago, inaugural balls said: Cam had been better. Look forward. Your second line seems a little oversimplified, however. Cam's health is a serious concern. No doubt. But an 80% Cam is still better than anything Dalton can bring. In general. That doesnt mean there arent certain fits which would be better for Dalton than Cam, I'll admit that much. For example, I think Dalton fits better than Cam in New England. But LA or Denver would almost certainly do better with Cam than Dalton. Really anywhere but NE, imo.
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 25, 2020 Posted March 25, 2020 1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said: Cam's health is a serious concern. No doubt. But an 80% Cam is still better than anything Dalton can bring. In general. That doesnt mean there arent certain fits which would be better for Dalton than Cam, I'll admit that much. For example, I think Dalton fits better than Cam in New England. But LA or Denver would almost certainly do better with Cam than Dalton. Really anywhere but NE, imo. Just curious why don’t you think Cam would fit in NE? Also, Denver is basically the same situation as us. If he’s 100%, he’s better than Lock but I can’t see them doing that because it would be like bringing him here behind Allen. LAC makes the most Sense because he would start and they could draft a young guy too.
MrEpsYtown Posted March 25, 2020 Posted March 25, 2020 Cam has been an E-P offensive player for the majority of his career and had his best seasons playing for Mike Shula in the scheme. So in terms of his schematic fit, New England makes a lot of sense. Shula is now in Denver as the QB coach and Shurmur is the OC..he’s a west coast guy. So the fit does make sense in NE.
DrDawkinstein Posted March 25, 2020 Posted March 25, 2020 26 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Just curious why don’t you think Cam would fit in NE? Also, Denver is basically the same situation as us. If he’s 100%, he’s better than Lock but I can’t see them doing that because it would be like bringing him here behind Allen. LAC makes the most Sense because he would start and they could draft a young guy too. Pretty much what I posted to you last night. I just dont see him and BB gelling. Or being the type of leader BB wants in a QB. A main part of the BB/Brady relationship, and what basically made the "patriot way" possible, was that Belichick was able to light into Brady in team meetings and film rooms. And Brady took it like a good soldier. And that set the tone that if the GOAT got held accountable like that, everyone else should shut up and accept it as well. Not sure how Cam would hold up under that type of scrutiny and being called out in front of his team mates.
dave mcbride Posted March 25, 2020 Posted March 25, 2020 1 hour ago, inaugural balls said: Ok - but I'm looking forward. Dalton will be better. Data? Newton is better because of past performance? I'd trust Dalton more moving forward. I don't dislike Dalton and think he might pleasantly surprise people in a new environment. As for Newton, it really depends on his health. He was having the best season of his career in 2018 before the shoulder injury. I have no idea how much he has healed from that. If he has healed enough to the point where he can make all of the throws, he's still probably going to be a good player. 5 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: Pretty much what I posted to you last night. I just dont see him and BB gelling. Or being the type of leader BB wants in a QB. A main part of the BB/Brady relationship, and what basically made the "patriot way" possible, was that Belichick was able to light into Brady in team meetings and film rooms. And Brady took it like a good soldier. And that set the tone that if the GOAT got held accountable like that, everyone else should shut up and accept it as well. Not sure how Cam would hold up under that type of scrutiny and being called out in front of his team mates. As I've said elsewhere, I strongly believe that BB was bored with the Brady situation and wants a new challenge. He has nothing left to prove and his legacy is fully cemented as the greatest coach ever. I wouldn't be surprised if he wants to run with a new QB type. The bottom line: Belichick is in a different situation than practically any coach in league history. By way of comparison, look at Shula and Tom Landry, who were looking over their shoulders to the end. BB is better than both, and knows that he can do whatever the hell he wants at this point with no risk of losing his job.
DrDawkinstein Posted March 25, 2020 Posted March 25, 2020 5 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: As I've said elsewhere, I strongly believe that BB was bored with the Brady situation and wants a new challenge. He has nothing left to prove and his legacy is fully cemented as the greatest coach ever. I wouldn't be surprised if he wants to run with a new QB type. The bottom line: Belichick is in a different situation than practically any coach in league history. By way of comparison, look at Shula and Tom Landry, who were looking over their shoulders to the end. BB is better than both, and knows that he can do whatever the hell he wants at this point with no risk of losing his job. Good point. And while he doesnt risk losing his job, he does risk tarnishing his legacy or his "aura". And with that, maybe bringing in Newton is the perfect idea, because if it doesnt work out, he knows CAM will take most of the blame on that and BB will keep his reputation. The narrative will be "Cam is broken physically and done" and/or "Cam couldnt conform his personality to the Patriot Way", it wouldnt be "Belichick failed Cam as a coach". So maybe it is the smart move for BB...
stinky finger Posted March 25, 2020 Posted March 25, 2020 2 hours ago, dave mcbride said: I don't dislike Dalton and think he might pleasantly surprise people in a new environment. As for Newton, it really depends on his health. He was having the best season of his career in 2018 before the shoulder injury. I have no idea how much he has healed from that. If he has healed enough to the point where he can make all of the throws, he's still probably going to be a good player. As I've said elsewhere, I strongly believe that BB was bored with the Brady situation and wants a new challenge. He has nothing left to prove and his legacy is fully cemented as the greatest coach ever. I wouldn't be surprised if he wants to run with a new QB type. The bottom line: Belichick is in a different situation than practically any coach in league history. By way of comparison, look at Shula and Tom Landry, who were looking over their shoulders to the end. BB is better than both, and knows that he can do whatever the hell he wants at this point with no risk of losing his job. Regarding BB, no doubt, likely the best coach of all time. We know his history prior to TB and with TB. He needs to show what he can do without TB. Bares watching. 1
prissythecat Posted March 26, 2020 Posted March 26, 2020 7 hours ago, inaugural balls said: Regarding BB, no doubt, likely the best coach of all time. We know his history prior to TB and with TB. He needs to show what he can do without TB. Bares watching. Didn’t Belichick go 11-5 the season Brady was out with knee injury . His QB was none other than Matt Aka Meh Cassel 1
stinky finger Posted March 26, 2020 Posted March 26, 2020 6 minutes ago, prissythecat said: Didn’t Belichick go 11-5 the season Brady was out with knee injury . His QB was none other than Matt Aka Meh Cassel Are you suggesting the winning with Cassel was sustainable over subsequent seasons?
Spiderweb Posted March 26, 2020 Posted March 26, 2020 16 hours ago, dave mcbride said: ??? - It'd be nice if people actually looked at data before making these claims. Dalton's best season in terms of AV (average value) was 14, which would have qualified for Newton's 6th best season. He brings so much to the table with his run game and ability to score on running plays, and I feel like some fans simply resent having to factor that into the evaluation of a QB's play (which is funny because of, you know, Josh Allen). Christ, someone in this thread actually said that Carson Palmer had a better 2015 season than Newton. I mean, jeez: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201601240car.htm. The dislike for Newton among some folks on this board cripples their ability to fairly evaluate him. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/N/NewtCa00.htm https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DaltAn00.htm Not at all. Newton is a complete jerk, but a great athlete. Now, that's fair, right? 1
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