34-78-83 Posted March 23, 2020 Posted March 23, 2020 2019 Stats say that Lamar Jackson is a great passer. He just isn't. It's pretty clear. However as a complete threat he has to be taken very seriously by every team he goes up against. An eye that has knowledge of or experience with the game of football can see performance better and more consistently predict success. Josh was an unpolished piece of clay with many rare tools and a great work ethic and no experience against major top competition when we picked him.If his impovement level from year 1 to year 2 is mirrored from year 2 to 3, there won't really be much left to question, regardless of any statistical measure you try to argue against him with. He's already easily in the top 20 starting QB's if you look at the whole picture and what matters in the league in this era of QB. 1
GunnerBill Posted March 23, 2020 Posted March 23, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, whorlnut said: Allen comes from a small town golly gee upbringing. The rest of those guys (except maybe Mayfield) have always had the spotlight and fanfare. Yea. That doesn't matter. Not a jot. 4 minutes ago, 34-78-83 said: 2019 Stats say that Lamar Jackson is a great passer. He just isn't. It's pretty clear. However as a complete threat he has to be taken very seriously by every team he goes up against. An eye that has knowledge of or experience with the game of football can see performance better and more consistently predict success. Josh was an unpolished piece of clay with many rare tools and a great work ethic and no experience against major top competition when we picked him.If his impovement level from year 1 to year 2 is mirrored from year 2 to 3, there won't really be much left to question, regardless of any statistical measure you try to argue against him with. He's already easily in the top 20 starting QB's if you look at the whole picture and what matters in the league in this era of QB. The bolded above is exactly the key point. If Josh has "topped out" we will be having brutal debates a year from now. But if he takes another stride like he did this year? We are talking about a top 10 QB. 5 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: I don't think that its "don't care: so much as they don't know what to do when things don't go their way. I think at 1-7 things were not going Darnold's way. At 2-6 they were not going Baker's way. I think it is a far accusation on Rosen. He hates losing but doesn't know how to respond to it. But the other two have already proven in short NFL careers that they can face adversity and fight. Edited March 23, 2020 by GunnerBill 1
John from Riverside Posted March 23, 2020 Posted March 23, 2020 4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Yea. That doesn't matter. Not a jot. The bolded above is exactly the key point. If Josh has "topped out" we will be having brutal debates a year from now. But if he takes another stride like he did this year? We are talking about a top 10 QB. That really is the whole point tough......you expect a high ceiling QB to get better every year as you add pieces around him...... If players would just stop dropping the ball...…..
GG Posted March 23, 2020 Posted March 23, 2020 4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: The bolded above is exactly the key point. If Josh has "topped out" we will be having brutal debates a year from now. But if he takes another stride like he did this year? We are talking about a top 10 QB. This multi-page thread could have been summarized in this one post. 2
GunnerBill Posted March 23, 2020 Posted March 23, 2020 Just now, John from Riverside said: That really is the whole point tough......you expect a high ceiling QB to get better every year as you add pieces around him...... If players would just stop dropping the ball...….. I think Josh is still improving. That is the point. I don't think we will be having brutal conversations next offseason..
John from Riverside Posted March 23, 2020 Posted March 23, 2020 5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Yea. That doesn't matter. Not a jot. The bolded above is exactly the key point. If Josh has "topped out" we will be having brutal debates a year from now. But if he takes another stride like he did this year? We are talking about a top 10 QB. I think at 1-7 things were not going Darnold's way. At 2-6 they were not going Baker's way. I think it is a far accusation on Rosen. He hates losing but doesn't know how to respond to it. But the other two have already proven in short NFL careers that they can face adversity and fight. I think Mayfield has been given a bunch of tools......and he has character issues which I actually think is a bad QB thing I think Darnold is better then given credit.….but the jets are just a ***** show of a organization Rosen.....I just think he isn't gonna have a long NFL career
GoBills808 Posted March 23, 2020 Posted March 23, 2020 5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: The bolded above is exactly the key point. If Josh has "topped out" we will be having brutal debates a year from now. But if he takes another stride like he did this year? We are talking about a top 10 QB. Yes, and even THIS year we are talking about him much differently without a statistically relevant number of dropped passes. His trajectory is firmly up. There's little reason to think he won't improve. 1
GunnerBill Posted March 23, 2020 Posted March 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: I think Mayfield has been given a bunch of tools......and he has character issues which I actually think is a bad QB thing I think Darnold is better then given credit.….but the jets are just a ***** show of a organization Rosen.....I just think he isn't gonna have a long NFL career Mayfield is gonna be good this year. I am pretty certain of it. I am predicting a major bounce back. The biggest problem with the Browns last year was hiring an out of his depth running backs coach as a Head man. Darnold I feel for. The Jets remain a talented roster in some places but a shitshow off the field.
snamsnoops Posted March 23, 2020 Posted March 23, 2020 4 hours ago, longtimebillsfan said: Do you think that some of the drops are due to the velocity of his passes? Maybe he needs to develop a softer touch on short to medium route in certain situations. It's the NFL, really?
papazoid Posted March 23, 2020 Posted March 23, 2020 all he has to do is improve...which i expect he will 1
Hebert19 Posted March 23, 2020 Posted March 23, 2020 2 hours ago, Chicken Boo said: If Josh remains in the bottom 5 of numerous statistical categories, chances are we won't get much further than simply making the playoffs. The goal is a Super Bowl victory. So while your original take is a sane one, I couldn't care less about "12 wins". He needs to be able to play well enough to win a Super Bowl. I have confidence in the guy to find a way to win even if he throws for 100 yards. That's the key with him over others. 1
Dr. Who Posted March 23, 2020 Posted March 23, 2020 3 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Where I’m at with Allen. He has the luxury of playing with a very good defense that makes his margin of error much higher than most qbs. I think a lot of qbs, say Andy Dalton, could have “lead” us to the playoffs last year. It was a really good situations. that said, the dude is super talent and very exciting. Most of the time, the moment doesn’t look to big for him. But he is very inconsistent and that really needs to improve this year. Too many highs and lows. Watch Brady highlights. They are rarely super exciting but he is just maddeningly consistent. That’s what we need Allen to be. Allen is never going to be Brady. I think he can be Favre or Elway. And frankly, I like the wow plays. So, more consistent, yes; Brady consistent is asking him to be a totally different kind of qb and even then, Brady is arguably the GOAT. Allen needs to learn to read the field better, but I surmise he has the intelligence and desire to put in the work necessary to get there. It's not really unusual for a young qb to take time on that skill. He now has the playmakers and overall offensive talent that he should start to trust the folks around him. He's been trying to carry the team when he sensed things going South (like the Houston game.) 1
Chicken Boo Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 3 hours ago, GoBills808 said: Bottom 5 of which 'numerous' statistical categories? I was going off of the the original comment you were responding to. Let's not act like Josh isn't in the lower tier of starting QBs.
GoBills808 Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 Just now, Chicken Boo said: I was going off of the the original comment you were responding to. Let's not act like Josh isn't in the lower tier of starting QBs. So you got nothing except fake stats that you repeated w/out verifying for yourself got it 2
Chicken Boo Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 3 hours ago, whorlnut said: #crickets Crickets huh? Qb rating - 27th QBR - 25th Completion % - 32nd I'm too lazy to look where he ranks for holding onto the ball or deep ball accuracy, but you get the point. 20 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: So you got nothing except fake stats that you repeated w/out verifying for yourself got it You're probably one of those guys who ranks Josh above Lamar Jackson. 2
GoBills808 Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 4 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said: Crickets huh? Qb rating - 27th QBR - 25th Completion % - 32nd I'm too lazy to look where he ranks for holding onto the ball or deep ball accuracy, but you get the point. You're probably one of those guys who ranks Josh above Lamar Jackson. And you're the guy who thinks 25th our of 32 equals bottom 5 Congrats 1
Chicken Boo Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 (edited) 32 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: And you're the guy who thinks 25th our of 32 equals bottom 5 Congrats Like 25th out of 32 is something to be proud of? You got me! Edited March 24, 2020 by Chicken Boo 1
John from Riverside Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 24 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said: Crickets huh? Qb rating - 27th QBR - 25th Completion % - 32nd I'm too lazy to look where he ranks for holding onto the ball or deep ball accuracy, but you get the point. You're probably one of those guys who ranks Josh above Lamar Jackson. What would make you assume that?
whorlnut Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 28 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said: Crickets huh? Qb rating - 27th QBR - 25th Completion % - 32nd I'm too lazy to look where he ranks for holding onto the ball or deep ball accuracy, but you get the point. You're probably one of those guys who ranks Josh above Lamar Jackson. I’m glad you’re happy that you made some kind of “point”. It’s pretty sad that you get some kind of thrill off of bashing your team’s QB. Good for you... 7 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said: Like 25th out of 32 is something to be proud of? You got me! You know what he ranks at the top in? Game winning drives. That’s what matters more than your dumb stats. 2
Chicken Boo Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 (edited) 26 minutes ago, whorlnut said: I’m glad you’re happy that you made some kind of “point”. It’s pretty sad that you get some kind of thrill off of bashing your team’s QB. Good for you... You know what he ranks at the top in? Game winning drives. That’s what matters more than your dumb stats. I never understand why fans get upset when facts are pointed out about Josh Allen? He needs to get better. Pretty obvious. I don't dislike Josh. My problem is with blind loyalists who don't demand more of our starting QB. I've been banging the drum to get him more weapons on offense for 2 seasons now. I desperately wanted this team to draft Mercalf last year to pair with Josh. I was all aboard "trading for Julio or Diggs" before they ever became realistic options. I'm one of the very few on this board that wants Beane to sign a seasoned veteran RB, primarily for pass protection, to buy Josh more time in the pocket. I'm rooting for the kid, but I also understand that he needs to improve. I'm far from satisfied with his play. He's on the right track but my standards are high. Everyone's should be. Edited March 24, 2020 by Chicken Boo 3
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