Bangarang Posted March 23, 2020 Posted March 23, 2020 13 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: I don’t know how any rational fan could argue that. But 200 yards passing is a party for us now, so who knows? I’m not going to crap all over Allen as if everything was on him. It wouldn’t be fair. I went back and watched every game from last year and it was painful to see how many drives were stalled or points were missed because of a breakdown on the o-line, a drop by a receiver or an off target throw from Allen. He desperately needs to fix the deep ball, be more efficient, and stop being a fumbling machine. 4
JaCrispy Posted March 23, 2020 Posted March 23, 2020 1 hour ago, TuelTime said: How much would you pay Josh Allen if he were a FA today? 10, 15, 20 mil a year?? Russell Wilson gets 35 a year, Tom Brady just got 25, and Tyrod and Fitz are at 5.5. He already makes 5.2 a year so I doubt he would take less than that, but in your most objective opinion, how much do you think Josh Allen is worth? How many years and how much guaranteed? Teddy Bridgewater just got 21 million a year.. Has Josh shown enough yet to be worth more than Bridgewater? I would pay him the contract we initially offered Tyrod...18-20 mil per year... 2
stinky finger Posted March 23, 2020 Posted March 23, 2020 42 minutes ago, BillsMafi$ said: I’m Trading for whatever good veteran if Allen does not pan out this year. Possibly Stafford Is Beane aware of this? 1
whorlnut Posted March 23, 2020 Posted March 23, 2020 1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Where I’m at with Allen. He has the luxury of playing with a very good defense that makes his margin of error much higher than most qbs. I think a lot of qbs, say Andy Dalton, could have “lead” us to the playoffs last year. It was a really good situations. that said, the dude is super talent and very exciting. Most of the time, the moment doesn’t look to big for him. But he is very inconsistent and that really needs to improve this year. Too many highs and lows. Watch Brady highlights. They are rarely super exciting but he is just maddeningly consistent. That’s what we need Allen to be. This is fair. I thought the moment looked way too big for him in the second half of the Houston game. I rewatched it the other day since there is nothing better to do. You can see it in his eyes. They were as big as dinner plates. That sort of went against everything else he did last year. I thought he stayed composed most of the time, but that moment just got too big. The good news is he’s still only gonna be 24 and he was never drafted as a finished product. He is going to be working with the most talented offense he’s ever had at any level, and he’s gotten plenty of experience the last few years. He has a tendency to improve on his weaknesses and I have little doubt his deeper throws will improve this year. Another poster and I talk all the time about Allen’s clutch ability. He seems to have it. Not all qbs do, but when the game is on the line, we both feel VERY confident he’ll deliver. He has more often than not. You brought up Brady. While Allen isn’t as refined, he has that burning desire to be great like Brady. I just don’t see that with all the other young QBs. Most of them seem to be satisfied with just being in the league. Allen really couldn’t care about anything less than wins. That’s got to speak for something. 3
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 23, 2020 Posted March 23, 2020 3 minutes ago, whorlnut said: This is fair. I thought the moment looked way too big for him in the second half of the Houston game. I rewatched it the other day since there is nothing better to do. You can see it in his eyes. They were as big as dinner plates. That sort of went against everything else he did last year. I thought he stayed composed most of the time, but that moment just got too big. The good news is he’s still only gonna be 24 and he was never drafted as a finished product. He is going to be working with the most talented offense he’s ever had at any level, and he’s gotten plenty of experience the last few years. He has a tendency to improve on his weaknesses and I have little doubt his deeper throws will improve this year. Another poster and I talk all the time about Allen’s clutch ability. He seems to have it. Not all qbs do, but when the game is on the line, we both feel VERY confident he’ll deliver. He has more often than not. You brought up Brady. While Allen isn’t as refined, he has that burning desire to be great like Brady. I just don’t see that with all the other young QBs. Most of them seem to be satisfied with just being in the league. Allen really couldn’t care about anything less than wins. That’s got to speak for something. I could nitpick but good post. The crazy thing about the Houston game was the first half was the most impressed with him that I have ever been. Then, the second half happened. That’s where the consistency needs to happen. the best description of watching Allen is he is like a drug. Many highs and many lows ?
whorlnut Posted March 23, 2020 Posted March 23, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: I could nitpick but good post. The crazy thing about the Houston game was the first half was the most impressed with him that I have ever been. Then, the second half happened. That’s where the consistency needs to happen. the best description of watching Allen is he is like a drug. Many highs and many lows ? Yeah and the first half should have been better. IMO, Brown had terrible footwork on the one sideline incompletion and his throw to Duke in the end zone was on the money. We should have been up more than we were at the half. The second half was maddening. He played terrible most of the half and then sprung to life again when the game was on the line to tie it. I still think Daboll had a completely atrocious game plan for the second half. He was almost surely playing not to lose. The problem was, Watson and Allen switched in the second half. Where Allen was great in the first half, Watson was even better in the second. Our defense couldn’t stop him. He literally did just about anything he wanted to do. Edited March 23, 2020 by whorlnut 2
bigK14094 Posted March 23, 2020 Posted March 23, 2020 2 hours ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said: The offense has to get out of the teens when it comes to points per game. But importantly Allen just needs to start making it happen when it needs to happen. But that is just the standard all top QBs are held to. So it’s a fair ask. Actually, the Bills did pretty well in the fourth quarter this past year, albeit against a weak schedule. Gonna be a lot tougher schedule this year. So, 10-6 again might convince me.
njbuff Posted March 23, 2020 Posted March 23, 2020 This is what aggravates me about people who are evaluate Allen. Do you people realize that he has basically been a one man gang all of his football life? Do you people realize he was a project who was supposed to sit and learn the QB position his first two years before he saw the field? Now, I am not saying he is the perfect QB by any means, but his improvement from year one to year two was amazing. He also has the talent, work ethic and leadership skills to be awesome. He needs to read the blitz better (which only comes with experience) and he has to have better mechanics when you throws the deep ball, He rushes it. But we saw him connect more by the end of the season. Allen's improvement is second, because I have faith he can do it. The most important improvement on the entire team in 2020 has to be from Cody Ford. The Bills showed faith in him by not bringing in a FA. Now he needs to reward the team's faith in him and become a reliable pass blocker for Allen. 18 minutes ago, Bangarang said: I’m not going to crap all over Allen as if everything was on him. It wouldn’t be fair. I went back and watched every game from last year and it was painful to see how many drives were stalled or points were missed because of a breakdown on the o-line, a drop by a receiver or an off target throw from Allen. He desperately needs to fix the deep ball, be more efficient, and stop being a fumbling machine. I noticed rewatching these games that Beasley barely got called out for his amazing amount of drops for a supposed sure-handed guy. I think Beasley will be better though in 2020 when it comes to drops. 4
White Linen Posted March 23, 2020 Posted March 23, 2020 2 hours ago, longtimebillsfan said: We were tied for 8th in scoring? That's not what was said. He said if we get to x point offensively it'll firmly put us in the conversation as a top 10 team. We already are. 1 1
whorlnut Posted March 23, 2020 Posted March 23, 2020 3 minutes ago, njbuff said: This is what aggravates me about people who are evaluate Allen. Do you people realize that he has basically been a one man gang all of his football life? Do you people realize he was a project who was supposed to sit and learn the QB position his first two years before he saw the field? Now, I am not saying he is the perfect QB by any means, but his improvement from year one to year two was amazing. He also has the talent, work ethic and leadership skills to be awesome. He needs to read the blitz better (which only comes with experience) and he has to have better mechanics when you throws the deep ball, He rushes it. But we saw him connect more by the end of the season. Allen's improvement is second, because I have faith he can do it. The most important improvement on the entire team in 2020 has to be from Cody Ford. The Bills showed faith in him by not bringing in a FA. Now he needs to reward the team's faith in him and become a reliable pass blocker for Allen. I noticed rewatching these games that Beasley barely got called out for his amazing amount of drops for a supposed sure-handed guy. I think Beasley will be better though in 2020 when it comes to drops. This has long been an argument of mine. Allen never had decent talent around him in his entire high school, junior college, or college career. It can be argued that the talent around him his rookie year sucked too. Last year the talent was way better and he showed marked improvements. This year, he has a legit offensive infrastructure around him so the first time in his life he will be working with an offense that has the pieces to keep up with any team.
Trogdor Posted March 23, 2020 Posted March 23, 2020 2 hours ago, GoBills808 said: You mean once I think for like 3 seconds about how he wouldn't have been 'bottom 5 in most passing categories' if his receivers had dropped his passes at just an average NFL rate? Yeah pretty easy 8 passes wasn't going to make that happen. That's all that separated them from the average. It's a problem, but so is he.
njbuff Posted March 23, 2020 Posted March 23, 2020 Just now, whorlnut said: This has long been an argument of mine. Allen never had decent talent around him in his entire high school, junior college, or college career. It can be argued that the talent around him his rookie year sucked too. Last year the talent was way better and he showed marked improvements. This year, he has a legit offensive infrastructure around him so the first time in his life he will be working with an offense that has the pieces to keep up with any team. People forget that Allen played well in Pittsburgh and New England to finish out the season. And he brought the Bills back against Houston when all the momentum was against them on the final drive, including the biggest bonehead play of his career. The kid is a gamer and I am counting on another big step forward in year 3. Problem is everyone wants Allen to be great right away like Marino and Mahomes, for example. Thing is, guys like them are the exception and not the rule. 99% of NFL QB's need time to develop their games. Case closed. 1
GoBills808 Posted March 23, 2020 Posted March 23, 2020 1 minute ago, Trogdor said: 8 passes wasn't going to make that happen. That's all that separated them from the average. It's a problem, but so is he. 11 by my count https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2019/advanced.htm
Augie Posted March 23, 2020 Posted March 23, 2020 2 hours ago, Cripple Creek said: process faster not lose his mechanics when their needed most know the routes and throw to spots, stop relying on your arm to get it there throw the receivers open stop fumbling In other words (for me anyway), just keep getting better. Make more progress. It won’t be perfection, but if he keeps getting better I’m good. I won’t say X for completion % or yards or TD’s. There are too many variable beyond his control. Just keep getting better Josh. 1
longtimebillsfan Posted March 23, 2020 Author Posted March 23, 2020 57 minutes ago, JaCrispy said: Yup I agree...I had explained during Allen’s first season that the fans would stay behind Josh’s low production so long as he kept improving...however, if he ever stopped improving, and still had low production, it was my opinion that that would be when fans would start to turn on him... You are most likely correct. This will be a high pressure year for Allen. It will be interesting to see how he handles it.
Cripple Creek Posted March 23, 2020 Posted March 23, 2020 14 minutes ago, njbuff said: This is what aggravates me about people who are evaluate Allen. Do you people realize that he has basically been a one man gang all of his football life? Do you people realize he was a project who was supposed to sit and learn the QB position his first two years before he saw the field? Now, I am not saying he is the perfect QB by any means, but his improvement from year one to year two was amazing. He also has the talent, work ethic and leadership skills to be awesome. He needs to read the blitz better (which only comes with experience) and he has to have better mechanics when you throws the deep ball, He rushes it. But we saw him connect more by the end of the season. Allen's improvement is second, because I have faith he can do it. The most important improvement on the entire team in 2020 has to be from Cody Ford. The Bills showed faith in him by not bringing in a FA. Now he needs to reward the team's faith in him and become a reliable pass blocker for Allen. I noticed rewatching these games that Beasley barely got called out for his amazing amount of drops for a supposed sure-handed guy. I think Beasley will be better though in 2020 when it comes to drops. Unless he stops playing like a one man gang he'll not reach his potential and neither will the team. The reason you mention, intact offense with one big exception (Diggs) and soon to be chosen complementary RB is the exact reason why the pressure is indeed on Josh Allen. He has one season to prove it or the team is going to be forced to bring in competition in 2021. He is either going to command big bucks or he won't and Beane needs to know by the end of the 2020 season.
Chicken Boo Posted March 23, 2020 Posted March 23, 2020 Regardless, he'll get a 4th season to prove himself, but if this season happens, he needs to make quicker reads, get the ball out on time and improve his deep ball accuracy.
njbuff Posted March 23, 2020 Posted March 23, 2020 1 minute ago, Cripple Creek said: Unless he stops playing like a one man gang he'll not reach his potential and neither will the team. The reason you mention, intact offense with one big exception (Diggs) and soon to be chosen complementary RB is the exact reason why the pressure is indeed on Josh Allen. He has one season to prove it or the team is going to be forced to bring in competition in 2021. He is either going to command big bucks or he won't and Beane needs to know by the end of the 2020 season. I have every confidence that he will learn to not be a one man gang anymore and trust his teammates. Which means, I have every confidence he is the man to lead this team for the next 12-15 years. If I am wrong, I will take responsibility for him failing. ? 1
longtimebillsfan Posted March 23, 2020 Author Posted March 23, 2020 58 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said: I don’t think it’s necessarily related to a stat line (though it probably is) but I think we need to see Josh show that he’s capable of succeeding and scoring on good defenses. I’d like to see him take over games - the way that Patrick Mahomes took over the 4th quarter of the Super Bowl. We saw glimpses of this last season, but outside of the win against Dallas it’s hard to find a complete game from Allen You are most likely correct. The Bills need to remove the constraints on Allen and see what he can do unfettered. This could be an interesting year.
BigBillsFan Posted March 23, 2020 Posted March 23, 2020 Season 3 all I want to see is 62% completion and 3600 yards, less fumbles, and about 23-25 TDs. 1
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