John from Riverside Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 Singletary when one of the best pass protections ratings of all NFL RBs last year...….
BigBillsFan Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 2 hours ago, GoBills808 said: He changed it to 'per game TDs thrown' immediately Never changed it genius read above. Trying too hard hahahaha
downunderbill Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 A few playoff wins, not overly concerned about the stats. He's electric enough and a gamer but in the end it's still a team sport and if they gets further than a team with a QB that has better stats, does it really matter? 1
BigBillsFan Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 16 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said: I never understand why fans get upset when facts are pointed out about Josh Allen? He needs to get better. Pretty obvious. I don't dislike Josh. My problem is with blind loyalists who don't demand more of our starting QB. I've been banging the drum to get him more weapons on offense for 2 seasons now. I desperately wanted this team to draft Mercalf last year to pair with Josh. I was all aboard "trading for Julio or Diggs" before they ever became realistic options. I'm one of the very few on this board that wants Beane to sign a seasoned veteran RB, primarily for pass protection, to buy Josh more time in the pocket. I'm rooting for the kid, but I also understand that he needs to improve. I'm far from satisfied with his play. He's on the right track but my standards are high. Everyone's should be. But see we think the same and mere pointing out flaws makes people go crazy. They want to use stats only found in Nerdom that might vindicate them because the real stats that count don't just yet. I want Josh to succeed, I wanted Hooper to bail him out of plays that's how much I want Josh to succeed. Now we're counting the incredible comebacks against the Jets, Bengals and Giants and yet only scoring 17 points. Sorry what's astounding is we needed 17 points in the last minutes to win. Realism scares people, makes them go crazy. I've watched it for EJ, Losman, and any other 1st rounder. Fans are far more objective if the player isn't in the 1st. I hope he succeeds but right now he's a major work in progress and if he does he has a ton of talent and we'll all be happy. No one is drinking Haterade, we can point out he isn't that great of a QB just yet, and a QBs biggest traits for long-term success is decision making and accuracy. He's obviously improving and I know with Diggs he'll do better. 1
John from Riverside Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 4 minutes ago, BigBillsFan said: But see we think the same and mere pointing out flaws makes people go crazy. They want to use stats only found in Nerdom that might vindicate them because the real stats that count don't just yet. I want Josh to succeed, I wanted Hooper to bail him out of plays that's how much I want Josh to succeed. Now we're counting the incredible comebacks against the Jets, Bengals and Giants and yet only scoring 17 points. Sorry what's astounding is we needed 17 points in the last minutes to win. Realism scares people, makes them go crazy. I've watched it for EJ, Losman, and any other 1st rounder. Fans are far more objective if the player isn't in the 1st. I hope he succeeds but right now he's a major work in progress and if he does he has a ton of talent and we'll all be happy. No one is drinking Haterade, we can point out he isn't that great of a QB just yet, and a QBs biggest traits for long-term success is decision making and accuracy. He's obviously improving and I know with Diggs he'll do better. I think being critical is fine as long as we also vet that with why things might be happening....and of course we always knew Josh was raw coming in
thebandit27 Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, BigBillsFan said: But see we think the same and mere pointing out flaws makes people go crazy. They want to use stats only found in Nerdom that might vindicate them because the real stats that count don't just yet. I want Josh to succeed, I wanted Hooper to bail him out of plays that's how much I want Josh to succeed. Now we're counting the incredible comebacks against the Jets, Bengals and Giants and yet only scoring 17 points. Sorry what's astounding is we needed 17 points in the last minutes to win. Realism scares people, makes them go crazy. I've watched it for EJ, Losman, and any other 1st rounder. Fans are far more objective if the player isn't in the 1st. I hope he succeeds but right now he's a major work in progress and if he does he has a ton of talent and we'll all be happy. No one is drinking Haterade, we can point out he isn't that great of a QB just yet, and a QBs biggest traits for long-term success is decision making and accuracy. He's obviously improving and I know with Diggs he'll do better. You are entitled to your own opinion; you are not entitled to your own facts. So when someone makes a totally indefensible claim like “bottom 5 in most passing categories”, that person (and anyone that agrees with them) should fully expect to be called out. You should also expect to be called out when you say “bottom 5 in passing TDs” when it’s false. And then if you feel the need to back your way into a defensible position by switching the argument to TD passes per game (instead of, say, TD% which is pretty commonly used), you may find it difficult to get people to believe that you’re making a purely a fact-based argument. Edited March 24, 2020 by thebandit27 4 1
Lieutenant Aldo Raine Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 The passion of the anti-Joshers is strong tonight!
Motor26 Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 Sure his numbers weren’t all that great. But he makes plays a lot of other QBs can’t. Also a lot of plays that drive you insane. That being said, he still made a nice jump from rookie year to year 2. Hoping for more progress in year 3.
Buffalo Boy Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 8 minutes ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said: The passion of the anti-Joshers is strong tonight! I harken back to the EJ vs TT days☺️
Cripple Creek Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 4 hours ago, whorlnut said: I think you really underestimate how much Beane and McD think of Allen. This is not a make or break year for him IMO. If guys like Tannehill, Winston, and Mariota get their full rookie deals, then Allen will too. I truly believe Beane and McD are fully committed to him. They truly believe that he can be developed and already possesses traits that can’t be taught. I think those traits are what drew them to him in the first place. It just so happens that he has a winning record in two seasons working with an incomplete offense. Let’s see what he does with good, seasoned players. Beane and McDermott are committed to winning football games and furthering their careers. As long as the feel Allen gives them the best chance at that then he's fine. Mariota was replaced by Tannehill for a reason. He was brought in to compete. Tannehill was replaced in Miami for a reason. TB's folly was not doing something earlier to get competition for Winston. Beane has constructed an offense (from a talent perspective) that leaves no excuses. It's up to the coaches to put the players in the best possible position. It's up to the players, led by Allen to make plays. He's a great kid and I want nothing but huge success for him and the Bills. Waiting one extra year only does one thing though. It puts you one year behind in finding your future. (JMO)
Logic Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 1 hour ago, John from Riverside said: Singletary when one of the best pass protections ratings of all NFL RBs last year...…. Can you provide a link for this information. I do not believe that it’s correct.
longtimebillsfan Posted March 24, 2020 Author Posted March 24, 2020 1 hour ago, Chicken Boo said: I never understand why fans get upset when facts are pointed out about Josh Allen? He needs to get better. Pretty obvious. I don't dislike Josh. My problem is with blind loyalists who don't demand more of our starting QB. I've been banging the drum to get him more weapons on offense for 2 seasons now. I desperately wanted this team to draft Mercalf last year to pair with Josh. I was all aboard "trading for Julio or Diggs" before they ever became realistic options. I'm one of the very few on this board that wants Beane to sign a seasoned veteran RB, primarily for pass protection, to buy Josh more time in the pocket. I'm rooting for the kid, but I also understand that he needs to improve. I'm far from satisfied with his play. He's on the right track but my standards are high. Everyone's should be. I'm not sure it's kind loyalty. Allen is s goid kid and is easy to root for. Most of us understood that he was a project that takes patience and time.
John from Riverside Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 46 minutes ago, Logic said: Can you provide a link for this information. I do not believe that it’s correct. I saw it in the Carlos Hyde thread
Mango Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 6 hours ago, White Linen said: That's not what was said. He said if we get to x point offensively it'll firmly put us in the conversation as a top 10 team. We already are. That was my post. There are 10 teams drafting after us. So we are not top 10. We averaged 19 points a game last year. We are top 5 on the defensive side of the ball. The only thing keeping us out of being in the upper echelon conversation is offensive efficiency, consistency, and scoring. If we don’t do that, we will continue to be on the outside of that conversation.
Saxum Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 8 hours ago, GoBills808 said: Some people think cucumbers taste better pickled That is silly. They taste best fried.
Dr. Who Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 1 hour ago, Chicken Boo said: I'm rooting for the kid, but I also understand that he needs to improve. I'm far from satisfied with his play. He's on the right track but my standards are high. Everyone's should be. I think it depends on what you mean by satisfied. I'm satisfied with his progress so far and I believe he is likely to end up a very fine franchise qb. If he doesn't progress from where he is now, that is not good enough. I don't see any plausible reason to expect him to plateau (though, of course, he may) and I can find a number of reasons to be optimistic. Don't really think most folks who are "Josh supporters" differ on this. This does not equate to blind loyalty. What irritates is not a petty aversion to "facts" but the sense that a number of folks follow a consistent agenda to use stats to suggest a narrative that ignores the positives. A lot of these same fellas have clearly already decided Josh is not a good qb and that seems presumptuous, not realism given the qualitative fact that one is dealing with a young, developing qb and not a veteran who has clearly hit the limits of his potential. 1
Mango Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 5 hours ago, John from Riverside said: Passing TDs are up.....he is a multi thread so you have to count Running TDs does that go into your bull#### math? A QB’s first job is to pass the ball. Running is an additional value but absolutely not a replacement value. I love Josh running, but bringing up running doesn’t really take away from his need to improve as a passer first and foremost.
John from Riverside Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 1 minute ago, Mango said: A QB’s first job is to pass the ball. Running is an additional value but absolutely not a replacement value. I love Josh running, but bringing up running doesn’t really take away from his need to improve as a passer first and foremost. Mango not a finished product but duel threat is duel threat and those tds absolutely need to be factored into production if he throws for 2 and runs for 1 it still counts
Dr. Who Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 6 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: Mango not a finished product but duel threat is duel threat and those tds absolutely need to be factored into production if he throws for 2 and runs for 1 it still counts Does anyone who evaluates Lamar Jackson as a qb throw out the running stats? 2
Mango Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 5 hours ago, GoBills808 said: He was tied for 21st w/Murray and Fitz for TD passes. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2019/passing.htm Not a single QB below Allen on that list started 16 games. Brisset and Trubisky got close with 15. Mind you Brisset was their back up until right before the season started and was just replaced in Indy with Rivers. Chicago just traded for Foles for competition. Those are literally the best guys he was ahead of who had lots of playing time. You could throw in Darnold and Stafford but they only played 13 and 8 games respectively.
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