thurst44 Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 19 minutes ago, Tesla03 said: There were times last year where our oline completely collapsed towards the end of games. Ravens, Patriots, and wild card vs Texans games all had mediocre oline play, and were some of our biggest games of the season. Against the Eagles as well, their dline completely owned the LOS. Not to mention the countless pre snap penalties and boneheaded mistakes the oline guys make. Beane hasn't addressed the position yet so I'm wondering what our plan is next year. It is so vital for Allen to have a top notch oline, can't stress it enough. He took some very nasty hits last season that I had no idea how he walked away clean from. I'm still not convinced with either of our tackles. I truly think we need a franchise LT here long term. Not really. I like their plan. Last year the idea was to get one borderline pro bowler in Morse to anchor the line, keep Dawkins b/c you know how hard it is to find a reliable LT and then bring in as many bargain guys with upside as you can and a big-time prospect in Ford. The plan accounts for growing pains -- both Ford figuring out the NFL (definitely work-in-progress) and the guys getting into a groove as a unit. They got lucky in having few injuries -- now the 2020 plan is to let the unit grow together. There's incredible value to an O-Line that knows each other and plays together naturally.. So, I aggressively don't want them to focus on bringing in new O-Lineman -- if a major o-lineman drops into the mid-to-late 2nd round, I'd be game, but I think the line-up of Dawkins-Feliciano-Morse-Spain-Ford with Nsehke and Long as the primary backups for the second season in a row is a pretty solid line-up and while they may never be an elite line a la Cowboys or Colts, they could be a strength of the team.
Rc2catch Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 I was concerned in the offensive line status quo thread. But not anymore in this one
mjt328 Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 The O-Line overall was average last year (which was a huge step-up from 2018). I don't think we should be concerned about this unit. We haven't had any major upgrades. But if they perform exactly the same as last season, we will be OK. They won't be dominating anyone because of blocking. But blocking also won't be the primary cause for us losing games. Our biggest weak spot in 2019 was Right Tackle. Some of this was because of Cody Ford struggling as a rookie. Part of it was because of Ty Nsekhe getting hurt. The rest of the guys (Dion Dawkins, Quinton Spain, Mitch Morse and Jon Feliciano) are solid. Not All-Pros. But solid NFL starters. They have moments where they get beat, but for the most part are a reliable unit. We also have very good depth. Nsekhe, Spencer Long and Ryan Bates are each capable of stepping into a starting position without much drop-off. If Ford takes a step up in his sophomore season (which is the case for lots of players), then I think we can jump to an above-average O-Line. 1
freddyjj Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 45 minutes ago, Tesla03 said: There were times last year where our oline completely collapsed towards the end of games. Ravens, Patriots, and wild card vs Texans games all had mediocre oline play, and were some of our biggest games of the season. Against the Eagles as well, their dline completely owned the LOS. Not to mention the countless pre snap penalties and boneheaded mistakes the oline guys make. Beane hasn't addressed the position yet so I'm wondering what our plan is next year. It is so vital for Allen to have a top notch oline, can't stress it enough. He took some very nasty hits last season that I had no idea how he walked away clean from. I'm still not convinced with either of our tackles. I truly think we need a franchise LT here long term. The Search feature is your friend Believe your concerns and 6 dozen responses included already 1
wppete Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 Not concerned. Think we have a solid line and it will be better next year as this unit grows together. They are all maulers and nasty guys, love it!
Just Joshin' Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 The majority of teams have concerns on their OL. The Bills are in good shape compared to most. If there was a good OT at 54 I may draft dependent upon who else is available. This is not because of a concern but a strategy to have the best 5 possible at a reasonable cost.
elijah Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 We had an overall average group last year which is nice, but you can and should continue to try and improve. If the oline plays as it did last year, there shouldn’t be much of an issue. But there’s still a possibility than Ford doesn’t grow at all or Dawkins regressed, or Spain/Feliciano, who had career years, regress back to their mean. We had a solid group but coming into the off-season I wanted to see us continue to improve, and still want to see us improve. 1
papazoid Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 (edited) YES !! RT is not settled cody ford will struggle there....he's better suited for guard i would also add that last season ...RT was the weakest starting position on team the only improvement i see is Ty's health Edited March 21, 2020 by papazoid 1
Nihilarian Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 As someone else mentioned the offensive line needs to really, really improve to do anything once in the playoffs. Last season the Bills played a lot of bad teams and had a pretty easy schedule. Then when you think that the Buffalo Bills offensive line only graded 21st which is still the bottom third of the league after all those upgrades. Four of five players replaced and the leagues highest paid center. What would it take to get this line into the top ten? This FO needs to make a real commitment to upgrading the entire line. The Colts went #1 pick OG and #2 pick OG in 2018 and that line went from 25th in 2018 to #3 in 2019. An OG with the #6th pick overall went against so many norms and yet Quinton Nelson graded as the best OG in the entire league last season. A pro bowler at LG in Richie Incognito helped the 2017 Buffalo Bills grade at #7 overall. Cordy Glenn only played in 6 games before Dawkins moved over from RT and that was with Jordan Mills moving to RT, Eric Wood at C, Vlad Ducasse at RG. Kinda crazy right? Two bums at RG, RT, an all pro at LG a should be all pro at C, and a rookie at LT in Dawkins that played like a top five tackle. Looking at this, the key might be to find an "all pro" for the left guard position which should help both the center and left tackle. Not an easy task though. While Spain graded as average it might have been a bad move to not resign crazy town Incognito who went on to have a very good season with the Raiders. The Raiders graded at 15th. "While Incognito allowed only nine pressures in 414 snaps. Out of those 12 combined pressures, only one was a sack and one was a quarterback hit — with the other 10 being hurries. " https://www.pff.com/news/pro-ranking-all-32-offensive-lines-from-the-2017-nfl-season
Doc Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 11 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: Several reasons. First, have you noticed how deep the Super Bowl champs are at WR and skills position in general? ***** Foster? The guy had 3 receptions last year. 3 dude. He shouldn’t be on the team. I like Duke at the last WR spot. This offense utilizes a lot of 4 and 5 WR sets and this WR class is an extremely stacked and deep class. It would be wise to draft one high especially with Brown and Beasley a year older and both on expiring contracts..... we are also one injury away to being exactly in the same place we were last year with a mediocre at best unit. The fact you even mentioned Duke and Foster is ridiculous. Those guys are nothing but fringe NFL players....I’m surprised you didn’t mention Ray Ray.? BPA can very likely be WR at 54. The Bills' WR group is as good as the Chefs now in terms of quality and depth. There is no need to add a WR high in the draft. Running back is also a draw although the Bills can, and probably will, add a complementary back for Devin. Where the Chefs have it over the Bills is Kelce. He's a special TE and if the Bills could add a guy guaranteed to be as good in the 2nd, much less 3rd or later, I'd say do it. But in absence of that, I'd favor developing the guy they took in the 3rd last year, as well as Sweeney, while seeing if Kroft can be worth anything. In short, I doubt WR will be the 2nd round pick, BPA or not.
GunnerBill Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 4 minutes ago, Nihilarian said: As someone else mentioned the offensive line needs to really, really improve to do anything once in the playoffs. Last season the Bills played a lot of bad teams and had a pretty easy schedule. Then when you think that the Buffalo Bills offensive line only graded 21st which is still the bottom third of the league after all those upgrades. Four of five players replaced and the leagues highest paid center. What would it take to get this line into the top ten? This FO needs to make a real commitment to upgrading the entire line. The Colts went #1 pick OG and #2 pick OG in 2018 and that line went from 25th in 2018 to #3 in 2019. An OG with the #6th pick overall went against so many norms and yet Quinton Nelson graded as the best OG in the entire league last season. A pro bowler at LG in Richie Incognito helped the 2017 Buffalo Bills grade at #7 overall. Cordy Glenn only played in 6 games before Dawkins moved over from RT and that was with Jordan Mills moving to RT, Eric Wood at C, Vlad Ducasse at RG. Kinda crazy right? Two bums at RG, RT, an all pro at LG a should be all pro at C, and a rookie at LT in Dawkins that played like a top five tackle. Looking at this, the key might be to find an "all pro" for the left guard position which should help both the center and left tackle. Not an easy task though. While Spain graded as average it might have been a bad move to not resign crazy town Incognito who went on to have a very good season with the Raiders. The Raiders graded at 15th. "While Incognito allowed only nine pressures in 414 snaps. Out of those 12 combined pressures, only one was a sack and one was a quarterback hit — with the other 10 being hurries. " https://www.pff.com/news/pro-ranking-all-32-offensive-lines-from-the-2017-nfl-season Dawkins never started at RT in 2017. He did in pre-season and failed to beat out Jordan Mills for the job. 1
Dave Allen Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 (edited) Long term, OL improvement is going to have to come through the draft. After the team pays Allen and White and Edmunds and Milano and Dawkins and eventually Oliver, there won't be room for any significant FAs. In fact, they're going to have to get rid of some of the guys they already have and lean more on first-contract guys. Edited March 22, 2020 by Dave Allen 1
Buffalo Junction Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 Not worried at all. I’d like to see improvement, but I think with an offseason of examination Daboll can tweak run schemes to figure some stuff out. Not having Gore back there as a key to stack the box will help as will Ford improving. More than anything though Allen developing and improving blitz & coverage identification, audibles, and protection calls will help the most.
Big Turk Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 Per an analytic study done by Pro Football Outsiders over a lengthy period of time, the biggest correlation between good OLine play and bad OLine play was the length of time/number of games a line played together. 3 1
ColoradoBills Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 I see Beane drafting a swing OT with the 3rd or 4th pick, bringing in a UDFA OT and maybe a low tier vet OT and go to camp. Having the extra PS spots will help teams develop "project players" on the O-line. It should be good for OL quality overall. 1
Virgil Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 If there’s a BPA tackle available in our draft that can push a starter, great. If not, no worries 2
Thurman#1 Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 Don't see any LT problem, really. He's not terrific, but he's good. Other than that, concerned? Yeah, sure. Until the season starts, everybody should be concerned about their team. Injuries, regression, stuff happens. Not terribly concerned, though, and certainly not so early in the offseason.
njbuff Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 If Ford makes the jump, then this line will be solid. No matter what, this line should be able to run block pretty darn effectively. 1
NewEra Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 I am ? worried. hopefully being together another year will be enough to take us from an ok OL to a good OL. Josh deserves a GOOD OL. I was hoping we’d make RT our priority but it looks like McB is happy with Ford at there. Can’t blame him as he just traded up to draft him, but color me skeptical that it’ll be good enough. By good enough, I mean good enough to win a Sb with 1
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