Buffalo Barbarian Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 5 hours ago, LabattBlue said: Was our OL so good last season that the same 5 are coming back again? Pass blocking often looked like a jail break. still have the draft and preseason to get better.
Ethan in Cleveland Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 3 hours ago, Turk71 said: They weren't pretty good. Get the ball out quicker? Josh was tied for last in the league in pocket time at 2.3 secs. Time from snap til pocket collapse. The Bills run blocking was near the bottom in power runs(need a yard), stuff rate (stopped for no gain or a loss), and they were no better than average in other run blocking categories. That's not nearly good enough. Continuity can help improve to a degree but more talent is needed imo. I consider the offensive line to be a critical part of a consistently good offense and find it puzzling it was not one of the priorities in free agency. Especially so considering Bulaga and Glasgow signed for similar $ as they gave to Vernon Butler to be part of a rotation. Still a lot of time for things to change before the season starts. If they are feeling good about the same 5 improving considerably then so be it, I will hope for the best. With an arm like Allen's and the downfield threats they have I would like to see him have the time in the pocket to make the most of it. If it takes years to develop a rt now shouldn't he be learning behind a veteran tackle instead of being expected to start as a rookie? Don't learn on the bench. Just like Allen needs to play and get better so does Ford.
longtimebillsfan Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 6 hours ago, thunderingsquid said: I would love for them to go OT in the 2nd but that's just me. I wouldn't mind if a stud left tackle was available. Move Dawkins to RT with an elite LT...this line would be awesome! 1
Big Blitz Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 6 hours ago, Rock'em Sock'em said: Curious, which of these guys are projected to be below average starters this year? 2019 PFF grades enclosed (yes, the folks at PFF may not be the most accurate graders). I personally think continuity is the way to go. IMO, Ford should develop. Dawkins (73) Spain (55) Morse (66) Feliciano (64) Ford (52) PFF Player Grading Scale: 100-90 Elite, 89-85 Pro Bowler, 84-70 Starter, 69-60 Backup, 59-0 Replaceable Joke. Morse is one of the 3 best centers in the league.
Rc2catch Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 5 hours ago, Chandler#81 said: It seems like you’re talking out of both sides of your mouth. You claim Josh leads the League 2 years straight holding the ball too long, but you also seem to be purposely omitting that Allen is often Houdini back there, evading rushers from everywhere while keeping an eye downfield. We didn’t run a lot of screens, true, but when we did they were great -think Washington and Baltimore playoff game. I’m in the camp that year 2 together and a healthy sophomore season from Ford are the reasons Beane isn’t chasing new vets. I’m all over the place at times. Just saying the line would look better especially on paper if Allen got the ball out faster like some other quarterbacks do. I don’t have any problems with the guys we have or going into the season with the current group. But if we’re using PFF ranks and stuff grading the line Allen doesn’t do them any favors 1
Mountain Man Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 8 hours ago, ScottLaw said: Ford.. honestly they are taking a risk with him at RT. Constantly beat around the edge and a lot of mental mistakes. Not a fan. It's almost like he was a rookie playing one of the hardest positions in the sport for rookies. 1
GunnerBill Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 8 hours ago, billsfan_34 said: Yeah- they were pretty good. They will look better when JA gets the ball out quicker. This to me is the key.
GunnerBill Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 7 hours ago, Shaw66 said: Do it again and you will get the same result. That's what you get at that level. Ford may or may not grow into a good pro, but you're probably not getting a rookie starter who is much better. Possible, but it's a bad bet. You're right. The line was mediocre. They're counting on Ford improving and they are counting on the line growing together as a unit. And they are counting on Josh to improve in blitz recognition. There were a lot of sacks that were not on the line at all because they sent an extra guy and either we hadn't recognised it and so had not kept an extra blocker in, or Singletary got blown up, or Josh hadn't got to his hot quickly enough. Now Morse has a role to play there as well but fundamentally that comes down to the Quarterback being better at understanding what he is seeing and adjusting either in protection or, preferably, in getting to hot reads. The best way to stop the blitz is to burn teams when they blitz you IMO. It isn't unusual for a young QB to take time to develop that. Took Deshaun Watson a little time and we saw Sam Darnold struggle with the same thing last year too. But that is as important, if not more important, than anything the 5 up front can do. 1 2
Malazan Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 7 hours ago, Rc2catch said: That’s my thinking on it as well. They had some lapses but Allen isn’t doing them any favors rarely taking a dump off pass or hot read or anything on blitzing plays. Add in the fact we can’t execute screens and it causes some ugly pressures. He was hovering over what 3.5 seconds holding the ball last season? I don’t have the advanced metrics of it but I think he lead the league both seasons in time holding the ball before release. You seem to make a habit of being wrong, but this wasn't even hard to find: https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing#average-time-to-throw Kirk Cousins was the worst in this statistic and only QB over 3 seconds. Andy Dalton being the fastest.
ALF Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 18 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said: https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing#average-time-to-throw Kirk Cousins was the worst in this statistic and only QB over 3 seconds. Andy Dalton being the fastest. All QBs are darn close in time to throw, thanks for the link
Nihilarian Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 9 hours ago, LabattBlue said: Was our OL so good last season that the same 5 are coming back again? Pass blocking often looked like a jail break. That was really only against some of the better defenses, teams. Eagles owned the Bills on both sides of the line and the Ravens D was even worse against the Bills O line. The Ravens accomplished that by 55%-65% blitzing and when they saw that Allen couldn't hit the deep ball to defeat that blitz, it intensified. The Patriots were another team that the Bills had trouble with in stopping their run and getting to Brady. The Browns game could have been a win had the Bills simply run the ball more often to counter the #2 pass rusher at that time in Miles Garrett who didn't get a ton of sacks but was able to pressure Allen with 4 pressures, 2 harries, 2 sacks. It could be that the Bills FO simply thinks that the line needed more continuity of playing together and while that could be true. There were times in many games in which the Bills failed to run effectively when most needed. While getting a major overhaul of talent to that line from 2018 to 2019 didn't actually improve their overall grade that much as that 2018 line graded at 26th. Which is being kind to a unit that looked like crap most of the season. Now take into account that the 2019 season saw a rather weak schedule. LT Dion Dawkins had the overall best grade which graded him as the 24th best LT. Morse, Feliciano graded average while Spain and Ford both graded below average. Ty Nsekhe only graded below Dawkins. Now, you would think that with all the upgrades to that line it would have graded better than 21st. Clearly the weak link was at RT with the rookie. I guess we will need to wait for the draft to see if the Bills make moves to upgrade the line again this year. I'm thinking RT, OG.
1ManRaid Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 10 hours ago, LabattBlue said: Was our OL so good last season that the same 5 are coming back again? Pass blocking often looked like a jail break. I can't stress enough how important continuity is to an O-line. The whole line got blown up last year and I expect them to do better this season.
Rc2catch Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 3 hours ago, jeremy2020 said: You seem to make a habit of being wrong, but this wasn't even hard to find: https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing#average-time-to-throw Kirk Cousins was the worst in this statistic and only QB over 3 seconds. Andy Dalton being the fastest. A habit of it huh ?? appreciate the link
Call_Of_Ktulu Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 12 hours ago, LabattBlue said: Was our OL so good last season that the same 5 are coming back again? Pass blocking often looked like a jail break. I thought they were below average thought the season and our LT and RT looked absolutely horrid vs Houston in the playoff game. 1
Shaw66 Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 3 hours ago, GunnerBill said: And they are counting on Josh to improve in blitz recognition. There were a lot of sacks that were not on the line at all because they sent an extra guy and either we hadn't recognised it and so had not kept an extra blocker in, or Singletary got blown up, or Josh hadn't got to his hot quickly enough. Now Morse has a role to play there as well but fundamentally that comes down to the Quarterback being better at understanding what he is seeing and adjusting either in protection or, preferably, in getting to hot reads. The best way to stop the blitz is to burn teams when they blitz you IMO. It isn't unusual for a young QB to take time to develop that. Took Deshaun Watson a little time and we saw Sam Darnold struggle with the same thing last year too. But that is as important, if not more important, than anything the 5 up front can do. This is absolutely correct. It is problem for young qbs to do it, all around the league, and Allen has to get better at it. He has to master it to be great. And its a bit on Daboll, too, because defenses have gotten better at disguise and taking the hot read away. But mostly it's Allen.
Thurman#1 Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 12 hours ago, LabattBlue said: Was our OL so good last season that the same 5 are coming back again? Pass blocking often looked like a jail break. "... often looked like a jail break" is a huge exaggeration. Yeah, there was definitely room for improvement. But they were above average last year, IMO, though only slightly so. They looked to me like a group that improved as the year went along and they got some continuity together, a group that needed a spot improvement or two rather than wholesale improvements. I expect another move or two before the season start but maybe none of those producing a starter. And they weren't five guys last year, more like four and a platoon at RT. Still plenty of time for some changes at LT in terms of one or both getting better and taking over or them bringing somebody else in.
billsfan_34 Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 8 hours ago, 32ABBA said: Ha, JA is already making them look good with his running ability. I think JA is doing more for them, than they are for him. ?♂️ 1
Artem Lipatov Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 Our OL is way to improve. It's avarage,maybe above avarage, but we need dominant Oline to succeed in playoffs. I expected 1-2 upgrade signings this free agency. Are Beane and McD satisfied with this OL? Do they hope to draft OL starter in late 2nd -3rd round pick?
Buddo Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 6 hours ago, longtimebillsfan said: I wouldn't mind if a stud left tackle was available. Move Dawkins to RT with an elite LT...this line would be awesome! Dawkins is a decent LT, trending upwards. While it was early in his career, he never looked comfortable as a RT. When Glenn got injured, Dawkins immediately looked a better player at LT. Some guys can play either side effectively, but others can't. On what evidence exists, I'd say that Dawkins would never be as good a RT, as he could be a LT. It wouldn't have surprised me, at all, if Glenn hadn't been traded, that he would have ended up at RT, with Dawkins at LT. I wouldn't rule out an OT with our 2nd, but it would be strictly in line with what our board is telling us, and not from thinking it was a need particularly. 2
Brianmoorman4jesus Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 12 hours ago, vincec said: They need to bring in a veteran T to compete with Nsekhe and Ford. What is the status of LaAdrian Waddle? I keep thinking, part of me would love to see a 1 year deal for Peters at RT. Make his career a Bills sandwich and maybe give him one last good run in the place where it all started. I know it ended very poorly but I’d say things in Buffalo are considerably different now. The guy is a sure fire, future hall of famer and it would be nice if he came back and ended it on good terms. Plus at RT I think he could still be effective and hopefully give Ford someone to learn from. Just purely by watching.
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