Shaw66 Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 1 hour ago, thunderingsquid said: I would love for them to go OT in the 2nd but that's just me. They did that last year. 3
BobChalmers Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 (edited) 29 minutes ago, BigBuff423 said: I disagree that OL was a big or consistent issue. What I saw was a remarkable difference between Josh’s first year when it seemed he couldn’t even set his feet before he was being mauled or forced to move and this year there seemed to consistently be 2-3 seconds for him to make the read and throw. More than that is asking a lot and much less is where we were the year before. RT was an issue but I believe Ty made that side look much better and he’s back this year along with Ford being given time to get better and I have to believe that since Beane traded up to get him and was excited to get him, they have confidence in his ability to hold his position. Long story - short, I trust this FO. I believe you are confusing the rise from among the worst O-Lines in the NFL (2018) to average unit in 2019 and thinking they are actually good. They were not good last year - they were mediocre. They still need to get better. 2 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: They did that last year. (draft an OL in the 2nd round) They should probably do it again. Edited March 21, 2020 by BobChalmers 2
Shaw66 Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 9 minutes ago, Magox said: I’m ok with rolling with the same line again. Continuity on the offensive line is a typical hallmark for good offensive lines. Ford was a rookie and most rookies struggle at the tackle position. I think they will improve upon last year Clearly what McBeane think. No free agent help yet, and the #1 pick gone. They're betting on continuity and improvement.
Shaw66 Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, BobChalmers said: I believe you are confusing the rise from among the worst O-Lines in the NFL (2018) to average unit in 2019 and thinking they are actually good. They were not good last year - they were mediocre. They still need to get better. They should probably do it again. Do it again and you will get the same result. That's what you get at that level. Ford may or may not grow into a good pro, but you're probably not getting a rookie starter who is much better. Possible, but it's a bad bet. You're right. The line was mediocre. They're counting on Ford improving and they are counting on the line growing together as a unit. 2 1
BuffaloHokie13 Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 1 hour ago, thunderingsquid said: I would love for them to go OT in the 2nd but that's just me. I like the OT from St John in the 3rd 1
Augie Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 The OL last year was FAR better than the year before. We will be better yet simply due to experience and continuity. FA is not over, and the draft is yet to come. We WILL add more talent, whether that be a starter or depth. Either way, we are better for it as a team.
Buddo Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 Even if there re no actual additions, I hink the FO has a certain mount of belief that the line will improve for the following reasons. Firstly, the all important continuity. As others have pointed out, last season was the first time those guys had played together. Secondly, I think that staying healthy will be something that will help - especially on the RHS. Last season, undoubtedly most (not all) of the line problems were on the Right. Some of them were due to a rookie learning curve, but there were a fair few that can be related to injury issues. Nsekhe was out at times, and it appears that Ford was carrying an injury also. When Morse missed time, it tended to be Feliciano who filled in for him, which also changed the RG position. Little wonder then, that things occasionally went pear shaped on that side of the line. Ford is likely to improve from his rookie year, and he did show distinct signs of improvement generally, later on in the year. Re-signing Waddle should help both with competition, and having another vet who can step in when needed. In effect, as he missed all of last season, he's a 'new' addition, yet one who knows the system. Giving Allen more weapons, is likely to help them too. Diggs is a genuine #1 WR, and I'm anticipating the addition of a bruising RB to complement Singletary. While I wouldn't be surprised to see a draft pick thrown into the mix - although I don't think it will be our 2nd round pick - I'm not too concerned about the O-Line as it stands, for the reasons outlined above. 1
Ethan in Cleveland Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 I like Ford at RT. OT takes years to develop now. Nsekhe was not much better and Ford improved as the year went on. I'm fine with this starting five. After the moves made in FA I probably would take Edge, OT, RB, DE, P in that order in the draft.
Bob in STL Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 (edited) I can see them drafting a developmental OT in later rounds. One with tools but needs coaching up and better competition. OR maybe they like a guy in round 2? I think they are banking on Ford improving. Why wouldn’t they? They traded up to get him. If not, then aTy starts. Someone mentioned the presence of Diggs. He will definitely help the OL by reducing the jail brake blitzing we saw. Edited March 21, 2020 by Bob in STL
Rubes Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 Continuity is key. I think the line did okay for most of the year, the problems (IMO) came primarily when teams blitzed. We'll get better at that. 1
Chandler#81 Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Rc2catch said: That’s my thinking on it as well. They had some lapses but Allen isn’t doing them any favors rarely taking a dump off pass or hot read or anything on blitzing plays. Add in the fact we can’t execute screens and it causes some ugly pressures. He was hovering over what 3.5 seconds holding the ball last season? I don’t have the advanced metrics of it but I think he lead the league both seasons in time holding the ball before release. It seems like you’re talking out of both sides of your mouth. You claim Josh leads the League 2 years straight holding the ball too long, but you also seem to be purposely omitting that Allen is often Houdini back there, evading rushers from everywhere while keeping an eye downfield. We didn’t run a lot of screens, true, but when we did they were great -think Washington and Baltimore playoff game. I’m in the camp that year 2 together and a healthy sophomore season from Ford are the reasons Beane isn’t chasing new vets. 3
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 1 hour ago, billsfan89 said: The offensive line was OK last year. Keep in mind non of the 5 starters last season had played together before and Ford was a rookie. I think with improved consistency by simply having a season under their belt playing together and Ford playing better in year 2 (Ford came on stronger as the season ended.) I think overall the O-line will improve as they are all under 30, deep (Ty, Long, and Bates all solid backups), and Ford will be much better. I get wanting to improve the O-line but offensive line play is heavily tied to playing together and this unit will be returning from a decent season. Add in too that Morse the center, making all the calls didn't play at all till opening day. And they were doing a lot of juggling all pre season. One thing that I think hurt Fords development last year was moving him back and forth between guard and tackle. For a rookie in particular that likely hurt, maybe a 5 year vet can handle that. If someone inside gets hurt, use one of your interior back ups, but leave Ford alone! I do think they will draft a lineman fairly high too. 1
Cal Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 2 hours ago, LabattBlue said: Was our OL so good last season that the same 5 are coming back again? Pass blocking often looked like a jail break. They were average at best...but Allen will get the blame if it doesn't work out for some reason 2
947 Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 Keep in mind that Feliciano & Ford were playing hurt for much of the season & needed surgery after. Morse wasn't right for much of the year too. Our OL is better than they showed last year. 2
Turk71 Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 2 hours ago, billsfan_34 said: Yeah- they were pretty good. They will look better when JA gets the ball out quicker. They weren't pretty good. Get the ball out quicker? Josh was tied for last in the league in pocket time at 2.3 secs. Time from snap til pocket collapse. The Bills run blocking was near the bottom in power runs(need a yard), stuff rate (stopped for no gain or a loss), and they were no better than average in other run blocking categories. That's not nearly good enough. Continuity can help improve to a degree but more talent is needed imo. I consider the offensive line to be a critical part of a consistently good offense and find it puzzling it was not one of the priorities in free agency. Especially so considering Bulaga and Glasgow signed for similar $ as they gave to Vernon Butler to be part of a rotation. Still a lot of time for things to change before the season starts. If they are feeling good about the same 5 improving considerably then so be it, I will hope for the best. With an arm like Allen's and the downfield threats they have I would like to see him have the time in the pocket to make the most of it. 53 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said: I like Ford at RT. OT takes years to develop now. Nsekhe was not much better and Ford improved as the year went on. I'm fine with this starting five. After the moves made in FA I probably would take Edge, OT, RB, DE, P in that order in the draft. If it takes years to develop a rt now shouldn't he be learning behind a veteran tackle instead of being expected to start as a rookie?
Shaw66 Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 4 minutes ago, Turk71 said: They weren't pretty good. Get the ball out quicker? Josh was tied for last in the league in pocket time at 2.3 secs. Time from snap til pocket collapse. The Bills run blocking was near the bottom in power runs(need a yard), stuff rate (stopped for no gain or a loss), and they were no better than average in other run blocking categories. That's not nearly good enough. Continuity can help improve to a degree but more talent is needed imo. I consider the offensive line to be a critical part of a consistently good offense and find it puzzling it was not one of the priorities in free agency. Especially so considering Bulaga and Glasgow signed for similar $ as they gave to Vernon Butler to be part of a rotation. Still a lot of time for things to change before the season starts. If they are feeling good about the same 5 improving considerably then so be it, I will hope for the best. With an arm like Allen's and the downfield threats they have I would like to see him have the time in the pocket to make the most of it. I think they feel they can live with what they have, but they almost certainly will bring in competition. Someone is going to get pushed. I can't imagine anything else. Maybe a 2nd or 3rd round pick, maybe a free agent. 1
billsfan89 Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 45 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said: Add in too that Morse the center, making all the calls didn't play at all till opening day. And they were doing a lot of juggling all pre season. One thing that I think hurt Fords development last year was moving him back and forth between guard and tackle. For a rookie in particular that likely hurt, maybe a 5 year vet can handle that. If someone inside gets hurt, use one of your interior back ups, but leave Ford alone! I do think they will draft a lineman fairly high too. It also doesn't help that they yo-yoed him with Ty, now I think putting Ty in was the right move as Ford was not cutting it the first two thirds of the season. But from a developmental standpoint that's not going to help. That being said I do not think that they draft a lineman in the first 3 rounds.
Turk71 Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 15 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: I think they feel they can live with what they have, but they almost certainly will bring in competition. Someone is going to get pushed. I can't imagine anything else. Maybe a 2nd or 3rd round pick, maybe a free agent. I agree. I think they will definitely draft a lineman and possibly acquire one through a trade or fa, maybe trade Star for one. There might be cap casualty castoffs worth looking at.
Prickly Pete Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 3 hours ago, billsfan_34 said: Yeah- they were pretty good. They will look better when JA gets the ball out quicker. Ha, JA is already making them look good with his running ability. I think JA is doing more for them, than they are for him. 1 1
RyanC883 Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 3 hours ago, thunderingsquid said: I would love for them to go OT in the 2nd but that's just me. same here. 2
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