Pegulas taking heat for treatment of PSE employees during quarantine; donate 1.2 mill to WNY pandemic relief

[Lurker]

15 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Well, I did post it so I read it first. As I mentioned earlier, it’s common I think to do it this way? If we displace employees due to work restructure, cost savings etc, they can re-apply but they aren’t guaranteed to be hired back. 

 

If the workers were guaranteed their jobs, it would be condsidered a furlough, rather than a layoff.   In New York State, furloughed workers DO NOT appear to qualify for unemployment insurance benefits, based on my reading of the following:

 

https://legalbeagle.com/12614350-do-you-get-unemployment-during-furlough-in-new-york-state.html

[Radar]

In this depressing time this board is certainly keeping pace. We judge and will be rightly judged by our own standards. 

[Mr. WEO]

9 hours ago, Augie said:

 

This reinforces why I don’t feel it’s worthy of a click. The best people will have jobs. The market will work, even after this horrible mess of a situation. 

 

If the NFL had a strike or lockout, would you say everyone gets their job back? Or do they have to make the roster? 

 

Apparently we see the world differently, and that’s OK. 

 

 

Huh? No, they are on the roster.  Players not on a roster can't strike.  They are unemployed.

[PromoTheRobot]

League facing a billion in losses.

 

 

[RoyBatty is alive]

14 hours ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

Ahh, the heartless and contemptible conservative who derides people... are there no workhouses? Are they not in full operation?

 

Something tells me you would fit right in during Dickensian times.

 

 

Oh the incredible hypocrisy, yep I am the one deriding people while you call me heartless and contemptible.

[Nanker]

11 hours ago, Lurker said:

 

If the workers were guaranteed their jobs, it would be condsidered a furlough, rather than a layoff.   In New York State, furloughed workers DO NOT appear to qualify for unemployment insurance benefits, based on my reading of the following:

 

https://legalbeagle.com/12614350-do-you-get-unemployment-during-furlough-in-new-york-state.html

Thanks @Lurker. From your linky thingy:

"Although unemployment insurance exists to help workers through periods of little or no work, furloughed workers -- employees forced to take unpaid leave -- often receive nothing. In addition, small amounts of work can disqualify a person from benefits completely. Thus, a furloughed worker should not count on unemployment benefits to sustain them during a work shortage.

Identification

Under certain circumstances, workers can receive unemployment during a furlough in New York state, according to Nancy Dunphy, the deputy commissioner for employment security for the state’s Department of Labor, in a 2009 New York Times article. Qualifying for benefits depends on the number of days a week the employee works. Any employee that works at least four days a week cannot receive unemployment benefits."

 

So, in fact it appears that the Pegulas are doing the right thing by their employees. At least they'll be eligible for unemployment benefits for at least 59 weeks (Hope to GOD it doesn't go anywhere near that long - the crisis that is). When things do clean up, they can reapply for their former positions or another one if they haven't already found employment in another business. 

 

Would you rather they furloughed them so they'd have no access to money until things clear up?  

 

Seriously, people lose their minds at the least tweak of information that they think cuts across the grain. Then again, I'm not surprised, I've been on this board a long time. It's the Billsy fans' way. 

[JohnC]

11 hours ago, Augie said:

 

This reinforces why I don’t feel it’s worthy of a click. The best people will have jobs. The market will work, even after this horrible mess of a situation. 

 

If the NFL had a strike or lockout, would you say everyone gets their job back? Or do they have to make the roster? 

 

Apparently we see the world differently, and that’s OK. 

What's frightening about this epidemic as much as the immediate health havoc wreaked on the population are the survival implications for certain businesses after this health issue has passed, and it will. Certain businesses are forever going to be altered, at last for the foreseeable future. Your daughter-in-law, even if she is going to be retained for the near term, is facing a precarious economic environment that is going to result in long-term downsizing. As an example there are going to be more teleconferencing and less out of town conferences for businesses. The occupancy rate compared to hotel capacity is going to be dramatically altered for a long time. Trump's hotel in DC currently has an occupancy rate of 5%. Even when we get back to more normal times the business model in the hospitality industry and revenue expectations will dramatically be altered. 

 

The hospitality industry was a growth and a dynamic industry for a lot of regions. That will change. It is a reality that a lot of people have not yet grasped. I offer my best wishes to your future D-I-L who is currently involved in a very precarious industry. A lot of people are reflexively criticizing the Pegulas for not be as altruistic as they think they should be. What they don't understand is that they have used their resources from the energy industry to invest on a grand scale in the hospitality industry. That industry has unexpectedly been severely wounded. And it should be added that the energy industry that they are in isn't as robust as it was. I'm not suggesting that we should feel sorry for billionaires. Certainly they are in a better position to personally cope. But that doesn't mean that the ripple effect hasn't also hit them as it has a lot of people.  

 

 

[BuffaloBill963]

On 3/20/2020 at 4:45 PM, ngbills said:

We can make excuses for him because we like the team. Just bc he owns does the Bills and Sabres doesnt mean he is a good person. It does suck when the owner of the team you support is selfish and heartless. He will rebound from this even if he does have to pay his hourly workers for a time period. He also has options to temporarily lay them off with the promise of a job and continuation of benefits. Seems like he is going the cheapest way possible. 

People always make excuses for their false idols whether they're a dumbass celeb or a billionaire businessman.

[C.Biscuit97]

4 minutes ago, BuffaloBill963 said:

People always make excuses for their false idols whether they're a dumbass celeb or a billionaire businessman.

Yup.  When a guy connect with Buffalo or the Bulls doesn’t something, fans rush to defend them.  If it was Bob Kraft or a Pat, we would call them a scumbag. 

[FullFrameFallout]

3 hours ago, Nanker said:

Thanks @Lurker. From your linky thingy:

"Although unemployment insurance exists to help workers through periods of little or no work, furloughed workers -- employees forced to take unpaid leave -- often receive nothing. In addition, small amounts of work can disqualify a person from benefits completely. Thus, a furloughed worker should not count on unemployment benefits to sustain them during a work shortage.

Identification

Under certain circumstances, workers can receive unemployment during a furlough in New York state, according to Nancy Dunphy, the deputy commissioner for employment security for the state’s Department of Labor, in a 2009 New York Times article. Qualifying for benefits depends on the number of days a week the employee works. Any employee that works at least four days a week cannot receive unemployment benefits."

 

So, in fact it appears that the Pegulas are doing the right thing by their employees. At least they'll be eligible for unemployment benefits for at least 59 weeks (Hope to GOD it doesn't go anywhere near that long - the crisis that is). When things do clean up, they can reapply for their former positions or another one if they haven't already found employment in another business. 

 

Would you rather they furloughed them so they'd have no access to money until things clear up?  

 

Seriously, people lose their minds at the least tweak of information that they think cuts across the grain. Then again, I'm not surprised, I've been on this board a long time. It's the Billsy fans' way. 

 

This is wrong. I've been a contract worker and have been furloughed and received unemployment benefits every time. No exactly sure if it's an apples to apples comparison, but the problem isn't being laid off. It's not paying the workers their PTO or any kind of severence whatsoever. That's a complete dick move by classless owners, who can MORE than afford to do the right thing and they're choosing not to. I also have a close connection that works at the Bills, and let me just say this. The Pegulas are so lucky to have Mcbeane running things the way they do. Because Kim and Terry are completely clueless win it comes to actual sports business operations (see the sabres). 

 

 

Edited March 22, 2020 by FullFrameFallout

[Lurker]

15 minutes ago, FullFrameFallout said:

 Not exactly sure if it's an apples to apples comparison, but the problem isn't being laid off. It's not paying the workers their PTO or any kind of severence whatsoever. 

 

PTO and severance are for exempt employees only.   Non-exempts like 95% of the ones the Pegulas terminated don't get those kind of benefits...

[FullFrameFallout]

3 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

PTO and severance are for exempt employees only.   Non-exempts like 95% of the ones the Pegulas terminated don't get those kind of benefits...

So you're saying 95% of those employees received 0 paid time off? I don't think I've ever had a job, and I've had many, really ***** ones, that has never had any kind of PTO. 

Edited March 22, 2020 by FullFrameFallout

[Lurker]

Just now, FullFrameFallout said:

So you're saying 95% of those employees received 0 paid time off? 

 

Vacation time, or paid time off (PTO), isn’t required under any state or federal laws for non-exempt employees  (i.e., non-exempts only get paid when they work). 

 

However, as a practical matter, almost all employers provide some amount of paid time off to their non-exempts for retention and attraction reasons.   Once that time is used up, though, it's unpaid...

[FullFrameFallout]

Just now, Lurker said:

 

Vacation time, or paid time off (PTO), isn’t required under any state or federal laws for non-exempt employees  (i.e., non-exempts only get paid when they work). 

 

However, as a practical matter, almost all employers provide some amount of paid time off to their non-exempts for retention and attraction reasons.   Once that time is used up, though, it's unpaid...

So in other words it's up to the Employer to decide to offer PTO or not. I get that. And you're right, legally that may not be obligated to give them a single penny. That's not my issue. My issue is they could have done ANYTHING more than nothing. They chose they absolute cheapest possible option and people are going to feel the effects of that for a long time. It's just a ***** thing to do. That's my complaint. 

[Lurker]

1 minute ago, FullFrameFallout said:

So in other words it's up to the Employer to decide to offer PTO or not. I get that. And you're right, legally that may not be obligated to give them a single penny. That's not my issue. My issue is they could have done ANYTHING more than nothing. They chose they absolute cheapest possible option and people are going to feel the effects of that for a long time. It's just a ***** thing to do. That's my complaint. 

 

Yes, the could have chosen to keep these workers on the payroll.    My sense is that the Pegula's thought they were helping them qualify for unemployment insurance or any upcoming income support payments from Washington.

 

Was it a cheap move?   Sure.    But PSE is within their rights just as much as any other employer doing the same thing right now.   Singling them out because they happen to be billionaires seems odd when Fortune 500 companies like Hyatt Hotels etc. are doing the exact same thing.

 

Just a bit of 1% bashing, I suppose... 

[Green Lightning]

It seems to me all the jobs being talked about wouldn't exist if it weren't for the Pegulas.

[YoloinOhio]

1 hour ago, FullFrameFallout said:

 

This is wrong. I've been a contract worker and have been furloughed and received unemployment benefits every time. No exactly sure if it's an apples to apples comparison, but the problem isn't being laid off. It's not paying the workers their PTO or any kind of severence whatsoever. That's a complete dick move by classless owners, who can MORE than afford to do the right thing and they're choosing not to. I also have a close connection that works at the Bills, and let me just say this. The Pegulas are so lucky to have Mcbeane running things the way they do. Because Kim and Terry are completely clueless win it comes to actual sports business operations (see the sabres). 

 

 

Contract workers are different because there is a “bench” ... at least in my experience 

44 minutes ago, FullFrameFallout said:

So you're saying 95% of those employees received 0 paid time off? I don't think I've ever had a job, and I've had many, really ***** ones, that has never had any kind of PTO. 

The part time/hourly workers at my company only get accrued PTO. No paid vacation or sick time until a year of service. Then they accrue it over time.  It also doesn’t roll over year to year . Not sure what type of Employees these are but if they are in hospitality not sure how much PTO they are really getting to begin with. 

Edited March 22, 2020 by YoloinOhio

[Richard Noggin]

19 hours ago, FullFrameFallout said:

 

This is wrong. I've been a contract worker and have been furloughed and received unemployment benefits every time. No exactly sure if it's an apples to apples comparison, but the problem isn't being laid off. It's not paying the workers their PTO or any kind of severence whatsoever. That's a complete dick move by classless owners, who can MORE than afford to do the right thing and they're choosing not to. 

 

I don't know a SINGLE hospitality/service employee who is getting paid not to work right now. Me being one of them. Does that make my owners classless *****? Not really (there are other reasons it might be true, hehe). Restaurants typically run on fine margins, and paying a workforce while bringing in zero revenue is a sure fire way to bankrupt the industry rapidly. 

 

I found out on a day I was scheduled to work that I no longer, for a completely undetermined length of time, had a job. That was a bummer. There is an ongoing group text with about 22 participants from our restaurant where we're figuring out how to claim unemployment with very little guidance from above.

 

Luckily for me, I also have a crappy full-time faculty position at a failing local college. So I'm still making half my income. Hopefully it can stretch long enough to keep us afloat. People like to blame, like to throw around judgments, when in reality, it's the economic system that keeps the working class on the brink. Sure, rich people COULD ABSOLUTLEY afford to help out the little idiots like me who work 70-80 a week to support my family. But they're not obligated to do so. And I don't sit around angry at them for not giving me handouts. But I would like my tax dollars to stop being redistributed to corporations and wealthy individuals who have benefited from a rigged system, and to start working for me and the vast majority of Americans like me. But that's a different thread all together. 

 

So hang in there, hospitality workers and everyone else whose financial lives have been turned upside down. 

19 hours ago, FullFrameFallout said:

So you're saying 95% of those employees received 0 paid time off? I don't think I've ever had a job, and I've had many, really ***** ones, that has never had any kind of PTO. 

I have NEVER received PTO from a restaurant as a tipped or hourly employee. Ever. It's the unfortunate reality of the industry.

[YoloinOhio]

20 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

I don't know a SINGLE hospitality/service employee who is getting paid not to work right now. Me being one of them. Does that make my owners classless *****? Not really (there are other reasons it might be true, hehe). Restaurants typically run on fine margins, and paying a workforce while bringing in zero revenue is a sure fire way to bankrupt the industry rapidly. 

 

I found out on a day I was scheduled to work that I no longer, for a completely undetermined length of time, had a job. That was a bummer. There is an ongoing group text with about 22 participants from our restaurant where we're figuring out how to claim unemployment with very little guidance from above.

 

Luckily for me, I also have a crappy full-time faculty position at a failing local college. So I'm still making half my income. Hopefully it can stretch long enough to keep us afloat. People like to blame, like to throw around judgments, when in reality, it's the economic system that keeps the working class on the brink. Sure, rich people COULD ABSOLUTLEY afford to help out the little idiots like me who work 70-80 a week to support my family. But they're not obligated to do so. And I don't sit around angry at them for not giving me handouts. But I would like my tax dollars to stop being redistributed to corporations and wealthy individuals who have benefited from a rigged system, and to start working for me and the vast majority of Americans like me. But that's a different thread all together. 

 

So hang in there, hospitality workers and everyone else whose financial lives have been turned upside down. 

I have NEVER received PTO from a restaurant as a tipped or hourly employee. Ever. It's the unfortunate reality of the industry.

I just saw that Bob Evans termed all of its hourly workforce and the “fine print” was the same as PSE’s. Probably standard for the industry. 

[Rochesterfan]

The blame on this is a huge lack of leadership on the federal level over the last 2 months.  Not blaming one party or the other as both have made mistakes, but the writing was on the wall for this as China and then Italy and others cracked down.  
 

Proper leadership would have provided better guidance to restaurant and hotel owners and provided a better guideline toward these layoffs/firings.  As it is most restaurants and hotels are getting rid of all hourly employees at an alarming rate and for the employees - the safest thing is totally cut them off so unemployment is easier to obtain.

 

Depending upon the organization- some are providing more benefits, but most seem to be doing the minimum in an effort to keep the business alive.  No money/minimum money coming in - still have most of their expenses- rent, food costs, electricity, licenses, water, insurance, taxes, etc.  They need a savings and the people are it.