MJS Posted March 20, 2020 Posted March 20, 2020 8 hours ago, Billl said: A slot receiver is not a wide receiver any more than a full back is a tail back. Wide Receivers line up out wide and on the LOS. Slot receivers line up in the slot and off the LOS. TEs line up on the end of the line. Pretty simple stuff, but if being pedantic is your thing then you may as well go all in with it. Please tell me you aren't being serious... The slot is still wide of the line of scrimmage. Every single slot receiver in the game is officially listed as a wide receiver by their team. You're just being silly.
LABILLBACKER Posted March 20, 2020 Posted March 20, 2020 13 hours ago, DJB said: Bills are definitely in the top 10 WR of trios for the entire NFL. I agree, but I wish we could turn Beasley into our Edelman. Stefon & Smoke make a great duo.
Billl Posted March 20, 2020 Posted March 20, 2020 4 minutes ago, MJS said: Please tell me you aren't being serious... The slot is still wide of the line of scrimmage. Every single slot receiver in the game is officially listed as a wide receiver by their team. You're just being silly. 1 hour ago, formerlyofCtown said: It's been a while since I've had anybody worthy of being blocked. Your football knowledge is awe inspiring. http://www.nfl.com/player/colebeasley/2535698/profile Tell me Mr. Football genius, what does this link say he is. Of course Beasley belongs in the WR conversation. The posters I responded to were complaining about including guys like Travis Kelce in the conversation because he’s listed as a TE. If a WR is an eligible receiver who lines up wide of the LOS (which it is), then of course players like Kelce belong in the conversation. Dude has 200 catches in the past two seasons. He doesn’t get them as an in line blocker. He gets (most of) them by lining up in the slot or flexing out wide just like Beasley. You can’t discount the production of guys who line up in the slot or split out wide simply because they may have lined up next to the Tackle and run blocked three plays earlier. To put it another way, Kelce took more snaps lined up at WR than Mecole Hardman did. If Kelce catches 60+ passes a season from the slot position, he belongs in the conversation as a WR.
MJS Posted March 20, 2020 Posted March 20, 2020 3 hours ago, Billl said: Of course Beasley belongs in the WR conversation. The posters I responded to were complaining about including guys like Travis Kelce in the conversation because he’s listed as a TE. If a WR is an eligible receiver who lines up wide of the LOS (which it is), then of course players like Kelce belong in the conversation. Dude has 200 catches in the past two seasons. He doesn’t get them as an in line blocker. He gets (most of) them by lining up in the slot or flexing out wide just like Beasley. You can’t discount the production of guys who line up in the slot or split out wide simply because they may have lined up next to the Tackle and run blocked three plays earlier. To put it another way, Kelce took more snaps lined up at WR than Mecole Hardman did. If Kelce catches 60+ passes a season from the slot position, he belongs in the conversation as a WR. If people want to consider the WR group separate from TE's, that's fine. If you want to include all pass catchers, that's fine too. I don't see the problem. An offense can be boiled down to many different aspects. If you were having a conversation about TE's you probably wouldn't start talking about receivers even though they do a lot of the same things, including blocking down field on running plays. So I don't see a problem with people differentiating between the two. There is a difference, even though their roles have similarities.
formerlyofCtown Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 On 3/20/2020 at 12:25 AM, Billl said: Of course Beasley belongs in the WR conversation. The posters I responded to were complaining about including guys like Travis Kelce in the conversation because he’s listed as a TE. If a WR is an eligible receiver who lines up wide of the LOS (which it is), then of course players like Kelce belong in the conversation. Dude has 200 catches in the past two seasons. He doesn’t get them as an in line blocker. He gets (most of) them by lining up in the slot or flexing out wide just like Beasley. You can’t discount the production of guys who line up in the slot or split out wide simply because they may have lined up next to the Tackle and run blocked three plays earlier. To put it another way, Kelce took more snaps lined up at WR than Mecole Hardman did. If Kelce catches 60+ passes a season from the slot position, he belongs in the conversation as a WR. No one is discounting anything. We are just pointing out that this discussion is about the teams top 3 WRs. It isnt about pass catchers in general. TEs and RBs need not apply.
without a drought Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 At least on paper. Josh would need to put up at least 4,200 yards to spread stats around to Diggs, Brown, Beasley, Knox and Singletary for this to be a conversation after the season.
Shaw66 Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 I just had a random reaction and wanted to say somewhere. This thread seemed to be the right place. I was in the thread about whether Johnson could have impact from the edge this year. I was talking about positions where we shouldn't be surprised if some rookie or second year guy might unexpectedly have an impact, like Johnson might on the edge. I ran through the position groups. When I got to receivers, I said that's a position where I wouldn't think it's likely. I said it just doesn't seem likely that anyone is taking playing time from Diggs, Brown, and Beasley. And I did a double take. When was the last time any of us wrote the names of the Bills receivers and in their minds what we see now? Moulds and Price, I suppose. Moulds and Evans. But really, I think you have to go back to Reed, Beebe and Lofton before you find as good a group. We should still be dancing in the streets over that move. 2
DFT Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 6 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: I just had a random reaction and wanted to say somewhere. This thread seemed to be the right place. I was in the thread about whether Johnson could have impact from the edge this year. I was talking about positions where we shouldn't be surprised if some rookie or second year guy might unexpectedly have an impact, like Johnson might on the edge. I ran through the position groups. When I got to receivers, I said that's a position where I wouldn't think it's likely. I said it just doesn't seem likely that anyone is taking playing time from Diggs, Brown, and Beasley. And I did a double take. When was the last time any of us wrote the names of the Bills receivers and in their minds what we see now? Moulds and Price, I suppose. Moulds and Evans. But really, I think you have to go back to Reed, Beebe and Lofton before you find as good a group. We should still be dancing in the streets over that move. Agree 100%! Some could argue Watkins, Woods (the one who got away!) and Goodwin, but they’re not nearly what we have today (in my opinion). The more this move has begun to settle the more intelligent and forward-thinking it presents itself as.
Shaw66 Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 14 minutes ago, DFT said: Agree 100%! Some could argue Watkins, Woods (the one who got away!) and Goodwin, but they’re not nearly what we have today (in my opinion). The more this move has begun to settle the more intelligent and forward-thinking it presents itself as. Watkins and Woods were great in our imaginations, but they never showed they could actually do what we imagined for them. Woods has done it since he left, and the Chiefs are still waiting for Watkins. These three guys all are wearing a Bills uniform today, and all three of them showed last season and in seasons before that they can do what we imagine. That's special. 1
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 22 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: Watkins and Woods were great in our imaginations, but they never showed they could actually do what we imagined for them. Woods has done it since he left, and the Chiefs are still waiting for Watkins. These three guys all are wearing a Bills uniform today, and all three of them showed last season and in seasons before that they can do what we imagine. That's special. Watkins was great in our high school offense with Tyrod. He also was the leading receiver for the Chiefs this postseason as they won a SB. I guarantee they are completely fine with Watkins. Injuries held him back.
Shaw66 Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 34 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Watkins was great in our high school offense with Tyrod. He also was the leading receiver for the Chiefs this postseason as they won a SB. I guarantee they are completely fine with Watkins. Injuries held him back. Of course they're happy with him. That's not what I meant. In Buffalo he wasn't the receiver Bills fans hoped he would be, and he has never performed at that level in the NFL. The Bills drafted him to be a #1 for 8 or 10 years. He's never been a quality #1, let alone for five or more years. But he's perfectly fine for KC, given the other receivers they put on the field. That is, he 's fine as a #2, he's nearly a star a #3.
Augie Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 1 hour ago, Shaw66 said: I just had a random reaction and wanted to say somewhere. This thread seemed to be the right place. I was in the thread about whether Johnson could have impact from the edge this year. I was talking about positions where we shouldn't be surprised if some rookie or second year guy might unexpectedly have an impact, like Johnson might on the edge. I ran through the position groups. When I got to receivers, I said that's a position where I wouldn't think it's likely. I said it just doesn't seem likely that anyone is taking playing time from Diggs, Brown, and Beasley. And I did a double take. When was the last time any of us wrote the names of the Bills receivers and in their minds what we see now? Moulds and Price, I suppose. Moulds and Evans. But really, I think you have to go back to Reed, Beebe and Lofton before you find as good a group. We should still be dancing in the streets over that move. Yes, indeed.......but only at a safe distance!
Shaw66 Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 1 minute ago, Augie said: Yes, indeed.......but only at a safe distance! I hope we come up with a solution to this virus thing soon; otherwise, the day after the next Super Bowl there's going to be a lot disease spread on the streets of Buffalo. 1
Augie Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 7 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: I hope we come up with a solution to this virus thing soon; otherwise, the day after the next Super Bowl there's going to be a lot disease spread on the streets of Buffalo. Out of all the seasons in the last quarter of a century, THIS is the one I LEAST want disrupted. Still, I’m sure there are people who would put down their 6 foot pole and hug everyone in sight regardless if the Bills could get just one trophy in their lifetime!
TigerJ Posted March 25, 2020 Posted March 25, 2020 On 3/19/2020 at 10:33 AM, Mat68 said: KC is still tops imo. Hill, Watkins, Hardmon and add in Kelce is too good. I would say without a doubt KC's receiving group is the most dangerous in the AFC, but they weren't as productive as you might expect in 2019.
TigerJ Posted March 25, 2020 Posted March 25, 2020 Beasley is a chain mover, but he's not the all over the field threat that some slot receivers are. Both Brown and Diggs have the ability to score anytime. Diggs, especially has the ability to get open on anybody. I'm content to say they are one of the better WR trios in the AFC. It will really take Josh Allen's transition to a new level to prove they can be the best.
Shaw66 Posted March 25, 2020 Posted March 25, 2020 13 minutes ago, TigerJ said: Beasley is a chain mover, but he's not the all over the field threat that some slot receivers are. Both Brown and Diggs have the ability to score anytime. Diggs, especially has the ability to get open on anybody. I'm content to say they are one of the better WR trios in the AFC. It will really take Josh Allen's transition to a new level to prove they can be the best. I agree about Allen. And I agree generally about Beasley, although he will get deep for you when the defense makes a mistake. He has something like Chris Hogan speed - he's not blowing past people, but he'll hurt you deep from time to time. There aren't many teams that have a slot guy who's a true burner. If you've got a 4.4 guy, you're desperately trying to get him to be 1 or a 2. If he can't do either of those, he probably isn't a 3, either. Think Marquise Goodwin or TJ Graham. Now, if you're KC, you have the luxury being able to run Tyreek Hill out of the slot sometime, and he's deadly there, but the only way a team runs Hill out of the slot is because they have enough other talent to "waste" him there from time to time. Fitzgerald always could have been a great slot receiver, but no team was willing to move him there until he wasn't quite good enough to be a serious 1 or 2. In other words, in terms of the kind of guys most teams are able to run in the slot, Beasley is about as good as they come. Edelman, of course, and a few others, but Beasley is right up there.
GoBills808 Posted March 25, 2020 Posted March 25, 2020 It's a VERY solid group...Lions, Cards, Browns, and Bucs clearly better off the top of my head
TigerJ Posted March 25, 2020 Posted March 25, 2020 12 hours ago, Shaw66 said: I agree about Allen. And I agree generally about Beasley, although he will get deep for you when the defense makes a mistake. He has something like Chris Hogan speed - he's not blowing past people, but he'll hurt you deep from time to time. There aren't many teams that have a slot guy who's a true burner. If you've got a 4.4 guy, you're desperately trying to get him to be 1 or a 2. If he can't do either of those, he probably isn't a 3, either. Think Marquise Goodwin or TJ Graham. Now, if you're KC, you have the luxury being able to run Tyreek Hill out of the slot sometime, and he's deadly there, but the only way a team runs Hill out of the slot is because they have enough other talent to "waste" him there from time to time. Fitzgerald always could have been a great slot receiver, but no team was willing to move him there until he wasn't quite good enough to be a serious 1 or 2. In other words, in terms of the kind of guys most teams are able to run in the slot, Beasley is about as good as they come. Edelman, of course, and a few others, but Beasley is right up there. I agree Beasley is very good, and yes, he'll break a deep one every once in a while. He mostly gets open via his route running and short area quickness as he lacks size, serious deep speed and strength. He is essentially a very smart receiver, who uses his intelligence to create opportunities. If you can have that, plus some combination of speed, size and strength, you're talking elite, but I'll take what Beasley gives you any day of the week.
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