Happy Posted March 19, 2020 Posted March 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: you're misreading what he said. I know. I already posted about it. It was my bad as I was reading too many threads too quickly. Just now, Royale with Cheese said: Why didn’t Shaq play more than him? That is a great question for McDermott and Frazier. Shaq was more productive than Murphy. My *guess* is that Murphy is McD's guy, Shaq was inherited from the previous regime. 1
dave mcbride Posted March 19, 2020 Author Posted March 19, 2020 4 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Dude is Chris Kelsey. Not the worst but so easily replaceable for so much cheaper. He had 3 sacks until that ? fest last game. He has 24 sacks in 5 years, 10 FF, and 1 int. He is a JAG and his best feature is setting the edge, which is something you don’t need to spend big money on. this regime has done some really good things. But they have some outdated views on football with the Star, Murphy, and need for a veteran rb. C.B., you're deep in that bunker right now. I have no great love for Murphy, but he was the best defensive player on the field in the most important game (the playoff game). 3 hours ago, GunnerBill said: But he couldn't seal an edge if he had a bucket full of sealant. Cut him. Move on. We should expect better. Where are you getting this from? That one play vs. Houston where Watson scored? That wasn't my read on his overall play over the course of 17 games. The advanced stats certainly don't back up your evaluation.
Royale with Cheese Posted March 19, 2020 Posted March 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said: I know. I already posted about it. It was my bad as I was reading too many threads too quickly. That is a great question for McDermott and Frazier. Shaq was more productive than Murphy. My *guess* is that Murphy is McD's guy, Shaq was inherited from the previous regime. Jerry Hughes was inherited by the previous regime as well and played him a lot...and extended him. McDemott and Frazier played Murphy because he was at least doing what they wanted him to do.
dave mcbride Posted March 19, 2020 Author Posted March 19, 2020 4 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said: He broke his hand and missed a couple games as rookie. But I was referring mostly to it took well over two years to get 100% and playing well from the knee injury. From early August ‘17 to maybe mid November ‘19. He was playing but not great and not full speed. I like him. I want him to stay. I cannot say I’m confident he won’t get hurt this year the way I’m confident Hughes or Oliver or Addison or Jefferson et al won’t be hurt. Clowney would make everyone on that line better. We would be a Super Bowl contender IMO. Why not take that chance. I have no problem with signing Clowney, but I think it's extremely unlikely to happen. Simply put, there are other good teams out there trying to get over the top and which are in desperate need of elite edge player -- Seattle, for one!! They are in far worse shape than the Bills when it comes to edge players, and consequently will be more desperate. 1
OldTimer1960 Posted March 19, 2020 Posted March 19, 2020 7 hours ago, 4merper4mer said: We need villains. Star and Murphy are it. You are right about that! Many on this board love having a few whipping boys to heap hate on. FWIW, I’m in no hurry to push Murphy out the door. The team’s DEs are: Mario Addison, Jerry Hughes, Trent Murphy and 7th rounder Daryl Johnson. Johnson has some interesting physical tools if he can get stronger and learn pro pass rush moves, but do you really want to go into the draft with Johnson as your #3 DE (if they release Murphy)?
Happy Posted March 19, 2020 Posted March 19, 2020 7 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: Jerry Hughes was inherited by the previous regime as well and played him a lot...and extended him. McDemott and Frazier played Murphy because he was at least doing what they wanted him to do. What did McD and Frazier want Murphy to do that Shaq didn't do better? Stats don't support Murphy outperforming Shaq.
thebandit27 Posted March 19, 2020 Posted March 19, 2020 28 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said: Didn't mean to give the wrong impression, Murphy is DE depth. Second sentence: no idea, probably not many. My point is that he is basically a depth player that is used only as needed. Not part of the planned rotation. Because Murphy is trying to get back into the play from the RT pushing him 10 yards away from the action. So a guy that played over 600 snaps and had 5 sacks on the #2 defensive unit in the league has no business in the rotation? I’m not trying to give you a hard time, but that opinion makes absolutely no sense. 1
Happy Posted March 19, 2020 Posted March 19, 2020 1 minute ago, thebandit27 said: So a guy that played over 600 snaps and had 5 sacks on the #2 defensive unit in the league has no business in the rotation? I’m not trying to give you a hard time, but that opinion makes absolutely no sense. He played over 600 snaps...so what? That is way too many. Murphy was also behind Jordan Phillips and Shaq Lawson in sacks, and was credited with something like 8 or 9 QB hits...one every other game. Murphy did a terrible job of sealing the edge so misdirections, screens, and rushes around his edge were low hanging fruit for opposing offenses. He is not a starting DE and the Redskins saw that. My opinion makes perfect sense; I'm sorry you don't see it.
thebandit27 Posted March 19, 2020 Posted March 19, 2020 1 minute ago, Happy Gilmore said: He played over 600 snaps...so what? That is way too many. Murphy was also behind Jordan Phillips and Shaq Lawson in sacks, and was credited with something like 8 or 9 QB hits...one every other game. Murphy did a terrible job of sealing the edge so misdirections, screens, and rushes around his edge were low hanging fruit for opposing offenses. He is not a starting DE and the Redskins saw that. My opinion makes perfect sense; I'm sorry you don't see it. No, the opinion that a guy that was obviously a major contributor to a defense that finished #2 overall should only see the field in an emergency situation makes absolutely no sense. 1
GunnerBill Posted March 19, 2020 Posted March 19, 2020 35 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: Where are you getting this from? That one play vs. Houston where Watson scored? That wasn't my read on his overall play over the course of 17 games. The advanced stats certainly don't back up your evaluation. Well I don't know where the advanced analytics crowd are getting their numbers from but from my rewatch of the games he was constantly out of his gap all year long.
BarleyNY Posted March 19, 2020 Posted March 19, 2020 (edited) I don’t get the Murphy hate at this point. He took a long time to come back from his knee injury. Everyone (pretty much) gave him a pass on that in 2018. Now after the 2019 season, when he finally looked good, many are hating on him. Oh, and this season he had a gimpy Hughes across from him. Kudos to Hughes for gutting out last season, but it wasn’t like he was drawing attention away from Murphy. So do what? Open up a huge hole at DE to save $8M? And these same people wanted to give Shaq $10M-$12M a year. SMH. I just don’t get it. Edited to add: Murphy had 2 sacks, 2 additional QB hits and a tackle for loss in the playoff game. He might not have been our best defensive player, but he certainly was an asset. Edited March 19, 2020 by BarleyNY
Royale with Cheese Posted March 19, 2020 Posted March 19, 2020 34 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said: What did McD and Frazier want Murphy to do that Shaq didn't do better? Stats don't support Murphy outperforming Shaq. Maybe the coaches watch film and don’t box score scout? 26 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said: He played over 600 snaps...so what? That is way too many. Murphy was also behind Jordan Phillips and Shaq Lawson in sacks, and was credited with something like 8 or 9 QB hits...one every other game. Murphy did a terrible job of sealing the edge so misdirections, screens, and rushes around his edge were low hanging fruit for opposing offenses. He is not a starting DE and the Redskins saw that. My opinion makes perfect sense; I'm sorry you don't see it. If he was as bad as you say, he wouldn’t have played as much. Your opinion only makes sense if you firmly believe you’re right and McDermott and Frazier are wrong.
Happy Posted March 19, 2020 Posted March 19, 2020 31 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: No, the opinion that a guy that was obviously a major contributor to a defense that finished #2 overall should only see the field in an emergency situation makes absolutely no sense. Fine. You go ahead and settle on mediocrity. 8 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: Maybe the coaches watch film and don’t box score scout? If he was as bad as you say, he wouldn’t have played as much. Your opinion only makes sense if you firmly believe you’re right and McDermott and Frazier are wrong. Shaq did a much better job at setting the edge and not being pushed out of the play. He also got more QB sacks. McD and Frazier have a DB centric view of defense; the defensive front comes second. If Murphy was so good, why didn't Washington make more of an effort to retain him?
Beast Posted March 19, 2020 Posted March 19, 2020 15 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said: If Murphy was so good, why didn't Washington make more of an effort to retain him? I know! I’m still amazed at why such a well run organization wouldn’t have done that. 1
dave mcbride Posted March 19, 2020 Author Posted March 19, 2020 38 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said: Fine. You go ahead and settle on mediocrity. Shaq did a much better job at setting the edge and not being pushed out of the play. He also got more QB sacks. McD and Frazier have a DB centric view of defense; the defensive front comes second. If Murphy was so good, why didn't Washington make more of an effort to retain him? In 2014, the Panthers defense had 57 sacks. It was all about the d-line for that unit. They went 12-4.
Happy Posted March 19, 2020 Posted March 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: In 2014, the Panthers defense had 57 sacks. It was all about the d-line for that unit. They went 12-4. McD was the DC, Ron Rivera was the HC. Frazier was not there. Completely different circumstances.
Royale with Cheese Posted March 19, 2020 Posted March 19, 2020 (edited) 59 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said: Fine. You go ahead and settle on mediocrity. Shaq did a much better job at setting the edge and not being pushed out of the play. He also got more QB sacks. McD and Frazier have a DB centric view of defense; the defensive front comes second. If Murphy was so good, why didn't Washington make more of an effort to retain him? If the defensive front comes second, why did we sign 3 defensive lineman this year, 2 last year and draft Ed Oliver? I guess Micah Hyde is awful since Green Bay didn’t retain him. So it’s a yes then? You are right and McDermott is wrong? Edited March 19, 2020 by Royale with Cheese
thebandit27 Posted March 19, 2020 Posted March 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Happy Gilmore said: Fine. You go ahead and settle on mediocrity. Shaq did a much better job at setting the edge and not being pushed out of the play. He also got more QB sacks. McD and Frazier have a DB centric view of defense; the defensive front comes second. If Murphy was so good, why didn't Washington make more of an effort to retain him? You don’t seem to be making a consistent argument here. You've gone from “you can’t keep Murphy” to “he’s not a starter” to “you can’t have him if you want to be a championship team” to “he’s a DE3” to “he shouldn’t even be in a rotation” to “of course he’s an NFL player” to, well, I’m not sure where we are now. Point all along has been this: he’s under contract, he’s contributed to a very good defense, you’re unlikely to have 4 DEs better than him, you don’t need the cap space, so there’s really no point to cutting him. 1
Happy Posted March 19, 2020 Posted March 19, 2020 7 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: If the defensive front comes second, why did we sign 3 defensive lineman this year, 2 last year and draft Ed Oliver? I guess Micah Hyde is awful since Green Bay didn’t retain him. So it’s a yes then? You are right and McDermott is wrong? Why didn't they build the defensive front in 2017, yet they picked up Poyer, Hyde, and Tre? Green Bay screwed up with Hyde, their loss is our gain. Your words, not mine. All I said was McD and Frazier have a DB centric view of defense, which they do.
Happy Posted March 19, 2020 Posted March 19, 2020 8 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: You don’t seem to be making a consistent argument here. You've gone from “you can’t keep Murphy” to “he’s not a starter” to “you can’t have him if you want to be a championship team” to “he’s a DE3” to “he shouldn’t even be in a rotation” to “of course he’s an NFL player” to, well, I’m not sure where we are now. Point all along has been this: he’s under contract, he’s contributed to a very good defense, you’re unlikely to have 4 DEs better than him, you don’t need the cap space, so there’s really no point to cutting him. My argument is consistent. You're just rephrasing everything I said to try and strengthen your view of Murphy. Good evening.
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