Doc Posted March 18, 2020 Posted March 18, 2020 8 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said: Eh that's the draft. I want blue chippers on offense we had none Of course, same here. I just don't want to give up multiple high draft picks to get one. And they didn't. 1
Reed83HOF Posted March 18, 2020 Author Posted March 18, 2020 3 minutes ago, Doc said: Of course, same here. I just don't want to give up multiple high draft picks to get one. And they didn't. we got Diggs!!!! 1
Vicarious_Fan16 Posted March 18, 2020 Posted March 18, 2020 1 hour ago, ColoradoBills said: '04, LOL maybe I graduated with your parents! lol my dad was 78 and my mom was either 82 or 83
BananaSquad Posted March 18, 2020 Posted March 18, 2020 Amazing amazing trade. Diggs is gonna have a top 5 season.
JoPoy88 Posted March 18, 2020 Posted March 18, 2020 48 minutes ago, mattynh said: what a terrible post. You have your shiny object just look at it and marvel some more. Terrible how chief? Because I quoted you accurately? 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 18, 2020 Posted March 18, 2020 2 hours ago, mattynh said: They didn't mortgage the draft because they still have 7 picks? There is no first round pick left, they gave up #22 plus 3 other picks. That #22 is an impact player that is a bargain for 4 years with a 5th year option. Arizona got a better player for a #2. I would have preferred not giving up a #1. I dont think its all that relevant how many they had, they earned those...you dont go around giving away picks because you have extra. I think the compensation was too much but I like the player. I will move on, nothing I can do. "Giving away" something implies one got nothing in return. We didn't get nothing, we got a legit proven NFL talent at WR who is fully developed and signed for 4 years. As others have pointed out, various draft value charts indicate the picks we gave are roughly equal in value to 1st round Pick #18. I covet DeAndre Hopkins. I think he is a better WR than Diggs, and I like Diggs too. That said: 1) Arizona did not get a better player for a #2. They got a better player for a #2 plus David Johnson, who has been a legit RB who can also catch when healthy. Now what draft pick that player equates to, can't tell you (I'm sure it amounts to less than a 1st round pick). 2) It is a better deal overall, but again, as others have pointed out, No Way was Houston gonna deal Hopkins within the AFC. 3) Apparently Hopkins has been super-loud about wanting a new deal for more $$$ You might want to use every pick, but Beane has been up-front for months that he felt if we used all our late round picks, we'd be drafting guys who might not make the roster which he doesn't like to do. The writing was on the wall that he was going to package them and use them to move around and/or trade. 9 hours ago, GG said: The other math is to the Hopkins trade. Diggs' equivalent is Texans #2 pick plus the last pick in the 2nd round. Is David Johnson worth that difference? I'm not following this. 1
Vicarious_Fan16 Posted March 18, 2020 Posted March 18, 2020 (edited) please please please stop trying to compare these 2 WR trades. It's not possible since the Texans might have been hosed but they were never trading to another AFC team and if by some miracle they didnt care about that they ask for devin s and probably more draft picks then we gave the vikings Edited March 18, 2020 by Vicarious_Fan16 1 1
GG Posted March 18, 2020 Posted March 18, 2020 8 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I'm not following this. Ignoring the later picks, comparing the value of what the Bills gave up for Diggs vs what AZ gave up for Hopkins is #22 vs #40 and David Johnson. Another way to look at it is, pick #22 is equal to picks #40 and #63.5. Is David Johnson worth that difference for Texans to drop from #22 to #40?
Mr. WEO Posted March 18, 2020 Posted March 18, 2020 1 hour ago, Doc said: That's not even close to "quitting." lol ok doc
The Dean Posted March 18, 2020 Posted March 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, GG said: Ignoring the later picks, comparing the value of what the Bills gave up for Diggs vs what AZ gave up for Hopkins is #22 vs #40 and David Johnson. Another way to look at it is, pick #22 is equal to picks #40 and #63.5. Is David Johnson worth that difference for Texans to drop from #22 to #40? What you are saying is, AZ got a better deal from Houston than the Bills did from Minny, right? So? One has nothing whatsoever to do with the other. Plus AZ gave up a productive player. The Bills gave up draft choices---most of which they can fairly easily recover if they think they need them. 1
Vicarious_Fan16 Posted March 18, 2020 Posted March 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, GG said: Ignoring the later picks, comparing the value of what the Bills gave up for Diggs vs what AZ gave up for Hopkins is #22 vs #40 and David Johnson. Another way to look at it is, pick #22 is equal to picks #40 and #63.5. Is David Johnson worth that difference for Texans to drop from #22 to #40? you literally can't compare the value with the Hopkins trade. The Texans obviously over value David Johnson by a mile or they have been hitting the cold syrup to hard. They are also never shipping Hopkins to a team in the afc unless some team makes it rain with draft picks 1
Doc Posted March 18, 2020 Posted March 18, 2020 8 minutes ago, GG said: Ignoring the later picks, comparing the value of what the Bills gave up for Diggs vs what AZ gave up for Hopkins is #22 vs #40 and David Johnson. Another way to look at it is, pick #22 is equal to picks #40 and #63.5. Is David Johnson worth that difference for Texans to drop from #22 to #40? To BOB, yes. 5 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: lol ok doc Right back at ya.
Fred Slacks Posted March 18, 2020 Posted March 18, 2020 AZ is also paying David Johnson’s contract this season. It’s a large cap number. I may be mistaken but I believe that was a big part of the trade. houston was unloading Hops contract and getting a RB on a low cap number this season because AZ is paying it. Something along those lines.
MJS Posted March 18, 2020 Posted March 18, 2020 3 hours ago, Cripple Creek said: I'm not sure what Wawrow's point is here. Digg's is under contract for 4 more years? Why before he has done one thing in a Bills uniform? Is he getting at an extension to lower the cap hit/year? There was a previous report that his deal would be restructured, so he is probably dispelling rumors. 1
Shaw66 Posted March 18, 2020 Posted March 18, 2020 3 hours ago, Mat68 said: At 22 who is the dynamic edge? Who is the bookend OT. The top Wrs will surely be gone, the versitle hybrid defenders will be gone. For a while now I thought 22 was really no mans land. Basiclly, paying rd 1 money for a day 2 player. I agree with this. I think you have to get up to 15 or so to get a special player. The Bills were going to get a good player, no doubt, but not a guy who was likely to be an impact player from day one. Where'd they get Ford - at 30? Why'd they trade up to get Edmunds? Because he wouldn't last into the 20s. It didn't seem likely that the Bills had enough capital to trade up into the mid-teens or better. So I wasn't expecting a star player in the draft. Diggs will be better out of the gate, no question.
stevewin Posted March 18, 2020 Posted March 18, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said: Your math is wrong. 53 players, 46 active is the number. Not the total Camp Bodies numbers. You can fill camp bodies with UDFA too. Beane even said we dont have enough roster spots for all the draft picks. Beane was not going to draft 10 players in this years draft and was always going to use them as capital to move around. No one said those late picks dont have value, clearly they do or teams wouldn't trade for them. But people freaking out are severely over valuing them. Some one will name one Pro Bowler taken in those glossing over the thousands who didn't make it in the NFL. I mean Brady was a 6th round pick...does anyone really believe trying to find your QB of the future in the later rounds is a sound strategy to find a franchise QB? No, but yes it can happen. Those rounds usually help identify depth and ST players, all things we got plenty of at most positions right now. Sure there are places to upgrade, but honestly, what we need more than anything is top end talent, not mid tier or role players who we got tons of. So using some of the EXTRA capital we had to find ST and depth guys, we were able to land a top 10 player at a major area of need. Everyone should love this move. And most importantly, we had extra picks in those rounds and still have all of our own picks in this draft except our first (which was essentially Diggs). People are so hung up on the number of picks that its making them think it was expensive. Yet most of those same people wanted us to trade up and get Juedy or Lamb, which would have actually been MORE expensive than getting Diggs as we likely had to trade up to 13 or 14 to insure we got one, and the very least to 16. Our compensation we paid on Diggs was equivalent of only moving up to 18. But guess what else, no one would have taken back a 5th, 6th, and next years 4th to trade back in the first round. We would have actually had to use LESS picks, but MORE valuable picks to make any move inside the first round. This is why everyone is baffled by those who are really upset over compensation. Most wanted something that would have cost us MORE for an UNPROVEN rookie who likely odds are would not end up as good as Diggs anyway based on hit rates in the first round. This is an excellent post. The other point that the late round pick hand-wringers are completely missing is Beane was never going to use those extra 5th and 6th roumd picks to draft players in this draft. Never. They were acquired as draft captital exclusively to use to trade for targeted players. The other thing i think that people are missing with Beane is that he is not hung up on what the perceived chart value of a trade is. His MO is to get draft captital to make moves, and use what it takes to get the guy he wants. The extra picks were stockpiled for that purpose, and that's what he used them for. Same as what he did to get Josh. Edited March 18, 2020 by stevewin 1 1
Motor26 Posted March 18, 2020 Posted March 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, stevewin said: This is an excellent post. The other point that the late round pick hand-wringers are completely missing is Beane was never going to use those extra 5th and 6th roumd picks to draft players in this draft. Never. They were acquired as draft captital exclusively to use to trade for targeted players. The other thing i think that people are missing with Beane is that he is not hung up on what the perceived chart value of a trade is. His MO is to get draft captital to make moves, and use what it takes to get the guy he wants. The extra picks were stocked for that purpose, and that's what he uses them for. The Bills needed elite talent. Weren’t gonna get it at 22, and definitely not with the day 3 picks. They got that elite talent in Diggs.
GG Posted March 18, 2020 Posted March 18, 2020 38 minutes ago, The Dean said: What you are saying is, AZ got a better deal from Houston than the Bills did from Minny, right? So? One has nothing whatsoever to do with the other. Plus AZ gave up a productive player. The Bills gave up draft choices---most of which they can fairly easily recover if they think they need them. No, all I'm doing is providing another benchmark to compare the relative compensation. There was a lot of crying that Bills gave up a 1st round pick and AZ gave up a 2nd round pick for a starting receiver. I provided more quantitative context to gauge the trade values. In the end, it's a question of whether David Johnson is worth the difference between #22 and #40?
The Dean Posted March 18, 2020 Posted March 18, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, GG said: No, all I'm doing is providing another benchmark to compare the relative compensation. There was a lot of crying that Bills gave up a 1st round pick and AZ gave up a 2nd round pick for a starting receiver. I provided more quantitative context to gauge the trade values. In the end, it's a question of whether David Johnson is worth the difference between #22 and #40? As these are four different teams, involved in two different trades, i'm not sure any of the details in one is relevant to the other. If they are, than ALL the details (contracts info for example) need to come into play. I agree AZ got a better deal for Hopkins than the Bills did for Diggs. Doesn't make the Diggs trade worse in any way. EDIT: Actually I should say, Houston got a worse deal than the Vikings. Still doesn't make any difference for the Bills/Vikes deal. Edited March 18, 2020 by The Dean 1 1
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