The power of team continuity

[Buffalo Junction]

Continuity could be a huge advantage if the off-season is abbreviated due to this virus or a CBA related work stoppage. 

[SoTier]

7 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

Josh Allen people..

 

Its on him..

 

This is a simplistic excuse.  No QB, not TB12 or Rodgers or Peyton or Montana, can be realistically be expected to have offensive success without adequate protection and good weapons.  Teams don't make, much less win, the Super Bowl without having at least decent offense, defense, and special teams.   To an extent, the Bills success depends upon Josh Allen's improvement -- and he certainly needs to improve -- but that is not a "get out of jail free" card for Beane and McDermott.   The Bills need to put better offensive skill players around Allen.  They need to maintain their defensive excellence.  They need to upgrade the depth on both sides of the ball.  They need to acquire and/or draft/develop playmakers.

 

2 hours ago, BigBillsFan said:

Not to be a wet blanket but we've never seen this team tested against better teams and consistently score points. Until then don't get all amped up. Notice I didn't say "win" as that can be luck, turn-overs, bad call, or things not in the cards on a given day. Our defense should be good enough to win more than we lose if we can score. 

 

The league is not a defensive league anymore. Watch DeAndre Hopkins against Tre in the playoffs and you'll see the advantages WR have over CBs in the league. Tre played a great game but a great WR/QB combo will always win nowadays if they get pass protection.

 

I agree.  I think that except for drafting Allen, Beane (and McDermott) have treated the offense like a red headed stepchild.  They devoted considerably more resources to the defensive side of the ball than to the offense.  They seem to have far more acumen in evaluating defensive talent than offensive talent.  Their supporters have given lots of reasons for that, some valid but many simply excuses.  My take is that if this apparent neglect stems from a philosophy that values defense far above offense, then all the continuity in the world isn't going bring the Bills many playoff wins.   They cannot put Allen out on the field with 2 decent NFL caliber WRs and 1 decent NFL caliber RB and a bunch of scrubs masquerading as skills players and expect the Bills to compete with the likes of the Chiefs, the Ravens, the Steelers, etc.

[Shaw66]

Inigo -

 

Thanks for the post.   It states clearly and concisely the importance of continuity.   It was stated another way by McDermott a couple of months ago when he said he'd be happy if he just had everyone back, with no changes.   What he meant was his team would be better in 2020 just by bringing everyone back.  

 

There's one other point in the continuity concept.   The Bills AREN'T going to have everyone back - there will be some changes, and those changes will upgrade the talent.   The Bills won't start the same five offensive linemen - one or two of last year's starters are going to lose their jobs to better players.   Levi Wallace already has to worry about Josh Norman, and we haven't gotten to free agency and the draft yet.   Some wideouts are in trouble.  The only possible declines in talent across the starting 22 are the replacements for Shaq, Alexander and Philips.  

 

One of the most interesting things I heard McD talking about a couple of years ago was when he explained that when you get to this point, where you have continuity and a stable roster, the newcomers get up to speed very quickly.   The veterans around them pull the newcomers up the learning curve, so that even though it took the vets three years to get to where they are now, the newcomers don't need that much time.   The point is that newcomers don't break the continuity.   

 

A couple of years ago, a lot of people joked about and doubted the process.  The rest of the NFL isn't laughing now.  

[Seasons1992]

9 hours ago, NewEra said:

The next two years are super bowl opportunities.  We should be happy with nothing but a SB.  Build this defense to beat Mahomes

 

Dare I say, this probably is the truth........It's a very weird feeling. Haven't had it since 1993.

[RyanC883]

10 hours ago, NewEra said:

The next two years are super bowl opportunities.  We should be happy with nothing but a SB.  Build this defense to beat Mahomes

 

totally agree.  We have a lot of key people on rookie contracts.  Need to upgrade receiving (that's why I would target Hooper in FA) and our pass rush (another DT or preferably Edge) and replace Alexander at LB (I'd go w/ a vet and have competition for Joseph) 

[notwoz]

15 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said:

What a difference from the woeful years of the drought where Buffalo was a revolving door of management, coaches, and players.  The product on the field reflected that lack of continuity.  No one had a chance to get settled into a system and learn how to play within it.  New head coaches, new offensive and defensive coordinators, a parade of quarterbacks and a continuous turnover of the supporting cast on both sides of the ball created a constant state of flux for this franchise.  That's what happens when a franchise and team are lost and desperately searching for an answer.

 

Look at the Bills now.  Beane, McDermott, and Frazier coming back for their fourth season together, Brian Daboll is back for his third season along with Josh Allen.  It looks like Bills are going to return all five starting offensive lineman next year and that should pay huge dividends for the entire offense.  Continuity on the O-Line may be the most important ingredient for great line play.  They should only get better playing in the same scheme, with the same O-Line coach, and with the same player on their left and right.

 

The defense will be entering it's fourth year in the same scheme and it looks like we will be bringing back the majority of the defense that was the strength of the team and PFF's 4th ranked secondary in the League last year.  Milano and Edmunds will be a year older and wiser in the system and in the NFL game itself, and Big Ed Oliver should take another step forward this year in the same system, able to just react in the system instead of having to think about what his assignment is.

 

There won't be any wasted time in training camp installing new verbiage or new systems, they will jump right back into where they left off last season and the entire team should be able to hit the ground running.  This is how a successful franchise operates.  The foundation of the team is already there, the scheme and personnel are already there, now they just have to incorporate a few new players into the fold, and even that process is smoother because all the players around them already know the system and can help them out.

 

This isn't the chaotic Buffalo Bills of ten years ago, or even five years ago.  This is a Buffalo Bills franchise that has turned the corner and is now functioning at a high level across the entire organization; ownership, management, coaches, and players, all on the same sheet of music. It is the type of continuity that fosters success and the type of continuity that has been sorely lacking before Beane and McDermott arrived. It's the kind of continuity that teams contending for championships have.

 

.

You are spot on. Success and continuity go hand-in-hand. Success doesn't mean always winning the Super Bowl every year. But it does mean fielding a team that is competitive, entertaining and always in contention.   

[Augie]

9 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

Well written and spot on...with one addition. The Bills near future will depend heavily on what happens in Foxboro. 

 

We don’t need them to open the door a crack, we can KICK IT DOWN!  

 

 

 

 

 

.......well, maybe.  

[BillsVet]

15 hours ago, NewEra said:

The next two years are super bowl opportunities.  We should be happy with nothing but a SB.  Build this defense to beat Mahomes

 

San Fran ranked second in yards allowed, first in passing yards allowed, and eighth in points allowed in the NFL. And this happened in the highly competitive NFC West.  That said, it did not work out well come the 4th quarter against Mahomes.  They still needed to score points (particularly in a 48-46 win over the Saints) to win against good teams. 

 

McBeane chose to build the defense first and perhaps they'll get around to finish the offense in year 4 of the rebuild.  That will, more than defense, define how they will fare in 2020.

 

[Locomark]

10 hours ago, May Day 10 said:

It's not continuity as much as it is competence

 

They could have had rex, 4chan, jauron, nix, brandon, levy, etc continue for multiple decades and it wouldnt have made a difference.

I agree more with this concept. The Super Bowl Bills had something like only 7 players on the 4th SB team that was left from the first 1 and if you look at the Pats they constantly change their roster. It’s about keeping key players and bringing in a constant pattern of good young draft players and coaching them up. The OL needs the most continuity IMO.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

16 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said:

What a difference from the woeful years of the drought where Buffalo was a revolving door of management, coaches, and players.  The product on the field reflected that lack of continuity.  No one had a chance to get settled into a system and learn how to play within it.  New head coaches, new offensive and defensive coordinators, a parade of quarterbacks and a continuous turnover of the supporting cast on both sides of the ball created a constant state of flux for this franchise.  That's what happens when a franchise and team are lost and desperately searching for an answer.

 

Look at the Bills now.  Beane, McDermott, and Frazier coming back for their fourth season together, Brian Daboll is back for his third season along with Josh Allen.  It looks like Bills are going to return all five starting offensive lineman next year and that should pay huge dividends for the entire offense.  Continuity on the O-Line may be the most important ingredient for great line play.  They should only get better playing in the same scheme, with the same O-Line coach, and with the same player on their left and right.

 

The defense will be entering it's fourth year in the same scheme and it looks like we will be bringing back the majority of the defense that was the strength of the team and PFF's 4th ranked secondary in the League last year.  Milano and Edmunds will be a year older and wiser in the system and in the NFL game itself, and Big Ed Oliver should take another step forward this year in the same system, able to just react in the system instead of having to think about what his assignment is.

 

There won't be any wasted time in training camp installing new verbiage or new systems, they will jump right back into where they left off last season and the entire team should be able to hit the ground running.  This is how a successful franchise operates.  The foundation of the team is already there, the scheme and personnel are already there, now they just have to incorporate a few new players into the fold, and even that process is smoother because all the players around them already know the system and can help them out.

 

This isn't the chaotic Buffalo Bills of ten years ago, or even five years ago.  This is a Buffalo Bills franchise that has turned the corner and is now functioning at a high level across the entire organization; ownership, management, coaches, and players, all on the same sheet of music. It is the type of continuity that fosters success and the type of continuity that has been sorely lacking before Beane and McDermott arrived. It's the kind of continuity that teams contending for championships have.

 

.

 

...NICELY done bud......like how continuity was NOT the convenient buzz word......McBeane and McD pick and choose the pieces for that continuity ("process fit & finish").......like how they are building through the draft, sign FA's to an initial "prove it" deal without overboard spending and vow to keep their own developed at OBD as well as the FA guys that proved it........they seem to be long term visionaries versus "win now and cap jail later" types......sure beats the "F Troop Gang (apologize Sgt O'Rourke)" running the show during the drought.......this gang could easily be better than the Polian era....stay tuned........

[Don Otreply]

15 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

Josh Allen people..

 

Its on him..

That, and the folk who drop his passes, just sayin... ?

 

Go Bills!!!

[John from Riverside]

I am a big believer in OL continuity as long as the individual players are talented

 

Dawkins - Nott the best but steady

Spain - loved that we got him back on a good deal...which allows us to keep a solid veteran next to Dawkins...which is obviiously helping his play

Morse - last years top free agent

Jon F. - last years suprise.....I still think he is the best OL we have

Ty N. - injuries didnt appear to be a problem for him before last year....was our best RT.....hopeful he can stay healthy

 

Then you get to the backups......take a look at the versitility in them....all can play multiple positions.

 

Its not the bills SB OL.....but it is much better then a lot of teams have in the league.....and the skill positions have either been not so talented or young.....Smoke is a great number 2.....Bease a good 3......we need more there.

[T master]

I think a lot has to do with a owner that now does not meddle in the decision making of the people they have hired to do the jobs of running the team i truly thank Ralph for first bringing the Bills to Buffalo & then keeping them here but there was only 1 other thing he did in his time owning the Bills & that was let Pollian rune the team !

 

He screwed Phillips as a HC you could tell he had little to know respect for the 1 HC that gave him a championship by keeping his name from the ring of honor & i for 1 thought it was a terrible way to let the "All Time leading sack master" Bruce Smith walk along with Thurman, & Andre because they proved there was more in the tank ! 

 

Ralph had a bunch of yes men working for him because the last word was his I believe McD & Beane include the Pegs with their opinions in all the decision making but i think they are smart enough to let the people they hired to run the team do their jobs !! 

[Saxum]

On 3/13/2020 at 7:10 AM, May Day 10 said:

It's not continuity as much as it is competence

 

They could have had rex, 4chan, jauron, nix, brandon, levy, etc continue for multiple decades and it wouldnt have made a difference.

 

Levy?  Sad.

[stinky finger]

On 3/13/2020 at 1:47 AM, NewEra said:

The next two years are super bowl opportunities.  We should be happy with nothing but a SB.  Build this defense to beat Mahomes

 

I get it. But lets just enjoy the growth and progress. I see plenty of good seasons ahead. I'll be happy with that.

On 3/13/2020 at 1:38 AM, Inigo Montoya said:

What a difference from the woeful years of the drought where Buffalo was a revolving door of management, coaches, and players.  The product on the field reflected that lack of continuity.  No one had a chance to get settled into a system and learn how to play within it.  New head coaches, new offensive and defensive coordinators, a parade of quarterbacks and a continuous turnover of the supporting cast on both sides of the ball created a constant state of flux for this franchise.  That's what happens when a franchise and team are lost and desperately searching for an answer.

 

Look at the Bills now.  Beane, McDermott, and Frazier coming back for their fourth season together, Brian Daboll is back for his third season along with Josh Allen.  It looks like Bills are going to return all five starting offensive lineman next year and that should pay huge dividends for the entire offense.  Continuity on the O-Line may be the most important ingredient for great line play.  They should only get better playing in the same scheme, with the same O-Line coach, and with the same player on their left and right.

 

The defense will be entering it's fourth year in the same scheme and it looks like we will be bringing back the majority of the defense that was the strength of the team and PFF's 4th ranked secondary in the League last year.  Milano and Edmunds will be a year older and wiser in the system and in the NFL game itself, and Big Ed Oliver should take another step forward this year in the same system, able to just react in the system instead of having to think about what his assignment is.

 

There won't be any wasted time in training camp installing new verbiage or new systems, they will jump right back into where they left off last season and the entire team should be able to hit the ground running.  This is how a successful franchise operates.  The foundation of the team is already there, the scheme and personnel are already there, now they just have to incorporate a few new players into the fold, and even that process is smoother because all the players around them already know the system and can help them out.

 

This isn't the chaotic Buffalo Bills of ten years ago, or even five years ago.  This is a Buffalo Bills franchise that has turned the corner and is now functioning at a high level across the entire organization; ownership, management, coaches, and players, all on the same sheet of music. It is the type of continuity that fosters success and the type of continuity that has been sorely lacking before Beane and McDermott arrived. It's the kind of continuity that teams contending for championships have.

 

.

 

I read this twice. Spot on, my friend. Great post.

 

I so look forward to Beane and McDermott getting renewed contractually.

 

 

[Lurker]

Personally, any talk of Super Bowl in the next two years--with the roster as configured right now--seems unrealistic.   

 

We still don't know what we have at QB.   Our TE room is mostly potential, rather than known quantity.    Our running game relys on one undersized RB, with no backup.    We have big holes at DE, LB, CB2.    And the team was injury free at a historic rate in 2019, suggesting the odds might revert back to the mean going forward.

 

Can Beane plug most of those holes, hope the team stays healthy and suffer no regression in current player performance at the same time?    That's a mighty, mighty lift, IMO.

 

Its nice to dream, but making the playoffs and winning a game is the most realistic outcome I'm holding out for right now...

[Lurker]

12 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Let FA/draft play out.... there is no reason this team shouldn’t be competing for a super bowl next season....

 

I can think of half a dozen reasons, but have fun getting your expectations up...

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, Lurker said:

Personally, any talk of Super Bowl in the next two years--with the roster as configured right now--seems unrealistic.   

 

We still don't know what we have at QB.   Our TE room is mostly potential, rather than known quantity.    Our running game relys on one undersized RB, with no backup.    We have big holes at DE, LB, CB2.    And the team was injury free at a historic rate in 2019, suggesting the odds might revert back to the mean going forward.

 

Can Beane plug most of those holes, hope the team stays healthy and suffer no regression in current player performance at the same time?    That's a mighty, mighty lift, IMO.

 

Its nice to dream, but making the playoffs and winning a game is the most realistic outcome I'm holding out for right now...

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and there are plenty of reasons why the 2020 Bills could fail to improve.   Injuries, as you say, are one. 

 

But the analysis here is weak, if not flat out wrong.   We don't know how far Allen will go, but the odds are very good that we haven't seen the best version yet of Allen.   He came out of a backwater college and got very little college-level QB training, so he was behind most highly touted QBs.   He's had two years to learn and he's made substantial progress.   It is much more likely than not that he will be better than last season.   

 

TE room has potential, which means it's likely to improve.   It's not like there's no potential there.  

 

No backup at running back is simply naive.   Do you think the Bills RB room today is the RB room that will open the season?   Of course not.   It will be better come September.  

 

The Bills don't have a "big hole" at CB2.   They could improve over Wallace, but he did just fine last season.  Bills had the third best passer defensive passer rating in the league last season; it's impossible to do that with a "big hole" at corner back.  

 

There should be no "no regression at player performance."   No one on the offensive line is at the typical downside of his career, and they should be better with a year's experience together.   No reason to expect regression from Allen, Singletary, Brown, Beasley, the tight ends, the returners at Dline or anyone in the defensive backfield.  

 

I'm not saying that the Bills are a lock to be better.  They should be better.   But most of the reasons you give for why they wouldn't be better are unlikely and unsupported by any evidence.  

Edited March 14, 2020 by Shaw66

[stinky finger]

18 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I’m not disagreeing with you, but getting to the super bowl isn’t some gradual climb like many here think it is..... there’s no excuse, after 4 years, that this shouldn’t be a super bowl caliber roster/team next year. None at all. 

 

They’re on their way. Stay tuned.

[Lurker]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and there are plenty of reasons why the 2020 Bills could fail to improve.   Injuries, as you say, are one. 

 

But the analysis here is weak, if not flat out wrong.   We don't know how far Allen will go, but the odds are very good that we haven't seen the best version yet of Allen.   He came out of a backwater college and got very little college-level QB training, so he was behind most highly touted QBs.   He's had two years to learn and he's made substantial progress.   It is much more likely than not that he will be better than last season.   

 

TE room has potential, which means it's likely to improve.   It's not like there's no potential there.  

 

No backup at running back is simply naive.   Do you think the Bills RB room today is the RB room that will open the season?   Of course not.   It will be better come September.  

 

The Bills don't have a "big hole" at CB2.   They could improve over Wallace, but he did just fine last season.  Bills had the third best passer defensive passer rating in the league last season; it's impossible to do that with a "big hole" at corner back.  

 

There should be no "no regression at player performance."   No one on the offensive line is at the typical downside of his career, and they should be better with a year's experience together.   No reason to expect regression from Allen, Singletary, Brown, Beasley, the tight ends, the returners at Dline or anyone in the defensive backfield.  

 

I'm not saying that the Bills are a lock to be better.  They should be better.   But most of the reasons you give for why they wouldn't be better are unlikely and unsupported by any evidence.  

 

Wrong?   OK, Nostradamus.   You win.

 

I can refute every one of your points with just as much "right," but that would be a waste of my time.    Especially the "no regression" one, which the NFL routinely makes happen once more game film is available.

 

The proof will be in the W-L column.    But "flat out wrong".     GMAB...

 

 

Edited March 14, 2020 by Lurker