BarleyNY Posted March 12, 2020 Posted March 12, 2020 2 hours ago, YattaOkasan said: @BigBillsFan last post helped me form my thoughts. I think the answer to the OP is we dont know because we havent really sunk sizeable assets into the WR position yet. We have sunk a 3rd for KB and then some FA contracts. Of those FA contracts Beasley and Brown, who are pretty reasonable contracts (31st and 37th highest), are by far the highest. So we havent spent draft picks or FA money on WR yet. Reason for hope is that the two FA contracts have been good; reason for despair is that KB was bad. I really dont think we have any idea about the draft. These guys typically have a prototype and I'm not sure we know that yet for WR. If your arguement is that they cant evaluate WR cause they havent really taken a shot yet, then ok, but I would still think you can understand the OL last year was a bigger need. I agree with all of that. Honestly, my bigger issue is building the defense and throwing Allen out there with such a bad supporting cast in 2018. They did some real work to get the talent level to a fairly good place for 2019, but it obviously needs work including real playmakers. I’m just happy 2018 didn’t completely ruin Allen. Now we get to see them take their shots. I largely give them a pass on KB. They were trying to make the playoffs and end the drought and WR was a huge need. He was just way more checked out than they realized. Lots of times players like that get motivated by being in playoff contention. That obviously didn’t happen. Most recently they got two good WRs in FA so I’m encouraged. 1 1
BillsVet Posted March 12, 2020 Posted March 12, 2020 1 hour ago, BarleyNY said: I agree with all of that. Honestly, my bigger issue is building the defense and throwing Allen out there with such a bad supporting cast in 2018. They did some real work to get the talent level to a fairly good place for 2019, but it obviously needs work including real playmakers. I’m just happy 2018 didn’t completely ruin Allen. Now we get to see them take their shots. I largely give them a pass on KB. They were trying to make the playoffs and end the drought and WR was a huge need. He was just way more checked out than they realized. Lots of times players like that get motivated by being in playoff contention. That obviously didn’t happen. Most recently they got two good WRs in FA so I’m encouraged. I have a hard time giving Beane a pass on the Benjamin deal because that was an organization he came from and had familiarity with the player. But that was 2+ years ago and no one had high expectations for that Bills team or the 2018 one. It's a sunk cost they've already paid. But now their offensive personnel decisions, overall team strategy, and in-game offensive decisions will be more highly scrutinized. Perhaps McBeane get it right, Allen improves, and Daboll schemes up presumably better talent on offense next season. Bottom line is this off-season is all about taking the next step and being a strong offense. 1 1
BillsMafia13 Posted March 12, 2020 Posted March 12, 2020 All XFL talk aside Yeah i think it is a concern. Just don’t think they have the offensive mind to evaluate the position based off their track record. Bease and smoke are great but thinking KB and zay were good really scares me 1
sunshynman Posted March 13, 2020 Author Posted March 13, 2020 16 hours ago, BillsMafia13 said: All XFL talk aside Yeah i think it is a concern. Just don’t think they have the offensive mind to evaluate the position based off their track record. Bease and smoke are great but thinking KB and zay were good really scares me Yes. I can understand the thought of KB was low risk high reward. But it became obvious, way to quickly, that he was nothing and should have been moved. Zay was an odd situation. From his college tape, he had the potential to be solid. But seems the drops woke up some demons for him. I fear they like the speedy small guys. When what we truly are missing is the larger go up and get that ball guys. I want a ball hawk that can absorb and deliver a hit. To me that helps Allen immensely. In the mold of Julio/Fitzgerald in there prime, Hopkins, etc. I also want no part of an old broken down AJ Green, Dez, etc. Draft some young studs. But make sure they fill the need and that we have the personnel to help with development. 1
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted March 13, 2020 Posted March 13, 2020 No they don't know wtf they're doing. We need to convene a panel of 2BD experts who've watched lots of XFL football. Better yet, if you believe Duke W. CFL stats are only a good decision away, you're automatically on the panel. SMDFH 1
PromoTheRobot Posted March 13, 2020 Posted March 13, 2020 Just an FYI, Cam Philips was injured while with the Bills. Maybe that's why. 1
artmalibu Posted March 13, 2020 Posted March 13, 2020 So Cam is a top WR among guys that were not good enough to make an NFL team. That means that the Bills were better at than the other teams in bringing in prospects. 1
PromoTheRobot Posted March 13, 2020 Posted March 13, 2020 51 minutes ago, artmalibu said: So Cam is a top WR among guys that were not good enough to make an NFL team. That means that the Bills were better at than the other teams in bringing in prospects. Can't you say the same thing about college WRs? After all most of the DBs they face aren't going to be pros either. 1
sunshynman Posted March 13, 2020 Author Posted March 13, 2020 2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said: Just an FYI, Cam Philips was injured while with the Bills. Maybe that's why. Thanks, that's valid. And I had not known that. I will hope that the do better going forward!
KD in CA Posted March 13, 2020 Posted March 13, 2020 This thread is giving me Da'Rick Rogers flashbacks. 1 1
Mat68 Posted March 13, 2020 Posted March 13, 2020 Outside of a few late rd flyiers, they havent brought in a top prospect yet. Pro scouting, they did a very good job of identify Jon Brown and Cole Beasley last year. First year under Beane was more house cleaning and cleaning the cap mess. Last year with all the addition the team seemed to hit more than they missed in FA. The draft was also solid. Im curious to see what they covet in a wr. This year you can really pick your flavor with how deep it is. 1
BillsMafia13 Posted March 14, 2020 Posted March 14, 2020 19 hours ago, sunshynman said: Yes. I can understand the thought of KB was low risk high reward. But it became obvious, way to quickly, that he was nothing and should have been moved. Zay was an odd situation. From his college tape, he had the potential to be solid. But seems the drops woke up some demons for him. I fear they like the speedy small guys. When what we truly are missing is the larger go up and get that ball guys. I want a ball hawk that can absorb and deliver a hit. To me that helps Allen immensely. In the mold of Julio/Fitzgerald in there prime, Hopkins, etc. I also want no part of an old broken down AJ Green, Dez, etc. Draft some young studs. But make sure they fill the need and that we have the personnel to help with development. I like it. Wishful Thinking teams see the deep draft and cut some solid vets 1
Doc Brown Posted March 14, 2020 Posted March 14, 2020 They really haven't been able to show they can identify a rookie WR who will be a solid #1 or 2 WR. They could've stayed put in the 2nd last year and picked AJ Brown, Metcalf, or McLauren. Lots of teams passed on them but that's not a great excuse if your WR scouts are worth a damn. 1
Chandler#81 Posted March 14, 2020 Posted March 14, 2020 On 3/11/2020 at 8:55 AM, sunshynman said: Did we not see it in Cam Phillips? https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/03/10/cam-phillips-wins-third-xfl-player-of-week-honor/ Maybe it's just that sometimes they slip through the cracks. But seems like this kid has the special sauce. And the Bills couldn't see it. Measureables look good. Stats looking good in XFL. My God, Man. You’ve been here nearly 3 years and THIS is the best you can come up with for a thread?? Cam would be pushing carts through the snow at Topps if there wasn’t an XFL. No one else Drafted him, no one claimed him on waivers and the CFL didn’t even call. Yet you call out the Bills evaluators? 2
BigBillsFan Posted March 14, 2020 Posted March 14, 2020 On 3/11/2020 at 12:55 PM, sunshynman said: Did we not see it in Cam Phillips? https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/03/10/cam-phillips-wins-third-xfl-player-of-week-honor/ Maybe it's just that sometimes they slip through the cracks. But seems like this kid has the special sauce. And the Bills couldn't see it. Measureables look good. Stats looking good in XFL. I don't find your thoughts outlandish at all, and certainly not worthy of ridicule. I think you might be right, especially if we tried him as the 5th WR. No one wants to admit that GMs are frequently wrong. They aren't paid to be frequently right, but right enough to make a good team. The best WR of all time was not a 1st rounder, nor was the 2nd. The 4 best QBs of the last 40 years only 1 was a 1st rounder, 1 a 2nd rounder, the other a 3rd and the other a 6th rounder. This board has picked DE talent better than the Bills GMs over the last 20 years. Bills fans picked Ngata over Whitner and many other head scratchers too numerous to begin. Warner obviously sucked too... the GMs hated him. And then after his injury to this thumb he obviously wasn't good enough for Matt Lienart so he was a backup. Ahhh... right. The whole argument of GM collectivism is so incredibly shallow of an argument. The talent in the XFL isn't bad and if a guy shines there he would be a stud in college today so why not see if he could a contributor on a roster? 1
Chandler#81 Posted March 14, 2020 Posted March 14, 2020 1 hour ago, BigBillsFan said: I don't find your thoughts outlandish at all, and certainly not worthy of ridicule. I think you might be right, especially if we tried him as the 5th WR. The 4 best QBs of the last 40 years only 1 was a 1st rounder, 1 a 2nd rounder, the other a 3rd and the other a 6th rounder. This board has picked DE talent better than the Bills GMs over the last 20 years. Bills fans picked Ngata over Whitner and many other head scratchers too numerous to begin. Warner obviously sucked too... the GMs hated him. And then after his injury to this thumb he obviously wasn't good enough for Matt Lienart so he was a backup. Ahhh... right. The whole argument of GM collectivism is so incredibly shallow of an argument. This post is worthy of ridicule! 4 best QBs the last 40 years?? What universe are you communicating from? Elway, Marino & Kelly are all 1st ballot HOFers from the 1st Round and that was just 1 year! Aikman, Both Manning’s!, McMahon, Vick, Rivers, Roethlisberger, Rodgers, Ryan, Flacco, Stafford, Luck, Mahomes & Watson are 1st rounders with only a few of them iffy for HOF. Not even mentioning Cam, Wentz or the ‘18 & ‘19 classes. A bunch of team groupies on a website can pick better than NFL GM’s? You’re on a weekend release program, right? You have to be, or our Mental Health agency’s are failing us. 1
BigBillsFan Posted March 14, 2020 Posted March 14, 2020 52 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said: This post is worthy of ridicule! 4 best QBs the last 40 years?? What universe are you communicating from? Elway, Marino & Kelly are all 1st ballot HOFers from the 1st Round and that was just 1 year! Aikman, Both Manning’s!, McMahon, Vick, Rivers, Roethlisberger, Rodgers, Ryan, Flacco, Stafford, Luck, Mahomes & Watson are 1st rounders with only a few of them iffy for HOF. Not even mentioning Cam, Wentz or the ‘18 & ‘19 classes. A bunch of team groupies on a website can pick better than NFL GM’s? You’re on a weekend release program, right? You have to be, or our Mental Health agency’s are failing us. Congrats you made the best argument I never made. You win if you were debating yourself. The 4 best QBs of the last 40 years are: Manning (1st), Brady (6th), Montana (3rd) and Brees (2nd). You might disagree, but based on longevity and stats I think the argument can be made. I would consider Rodgers the most talented though. All of the other QBs you list are irrelevant to my point, but again you win the strawman debate. As to WRs the best to have played in the last 40 years is Rice, TO, Harrison and Moss. Only Moss & Harrison were 1st rounders. The best WR in the league right now is a 2nd rounder. As to picking better than a GM you tell me if the DEs picked in the draft over the last 20 years we would have had Maybin, which was my point. I limited it to Maybin, Denney and Kelsay. All of our top picks at DE over the last 20 years have been horrible. Yes the board would have picked better in this scenario unless you think Maybin was better "cause". You'll notice I limited the discussion to DEs and threw in Whitner as further proof that the GM label isn't proof of infallibility. Never once did you address what I said and you want to question my mental health? Strange all things considered. 1
sunshynman Posted March 16, 2020 Author Posted March 16, 2020 On 3/14/2020 at 2:30 PM, frostbitmic said: They re-signed Robert Foster .... Right another ? mark. But if he doesn't make it out of camp, Then we likely have much better WR's. I'm rooting for him. He played well when all we had was him and drops. And last year he didn't complain and was a good gunner. I believe he was hurt as well. Maybe year 3 is his year!
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