Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 9, 2020 Posted March 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Does your reasoning take into account 'games played' is slightly less important than attempts? How about 9 TDs rushing and 42 first downs? If you get a reasoned explanation here, I shall be shocked. It fundamentally comes down to the viewpoint, "better stats....better guy" This one has extolled Daniel Jones before, rather have him as well. I think it's better to let it go, myself. If you point out any stats in Josh's favor or mitigating like higher drop % or higher CAY or AY/attempt, that'll get twisted into a reason why actually, it still means the other guy is better or else 0.2 yd difference will become insignificant (while 0.2 yds different in a stat he cites turns out to matter). Josh will improve...or he won't. Nothing we can see until they start playing again.
Putin Posted March 9, 2020 Posted March 9, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Minshew wasn't 'solid'. He was hot to start and faded into the kind of up and down play you'd expect from a rookie. He's the opposite of solid...a lot of his stats were compiled after the Jags were out of games, and many times (3 game HOU/TAMPA/LAC stretch in particular) it was largely in part due to his poor play early. 32/32 NFL GMs would take Allen over him in a heartbeat. Except BigBillsFan he would take mini minshew over Allen in a heartbeat Edited March 9, 2020 by Putin
BuffaloBills1998 Posted March 9, 2020 Posted March 9, 2020 26 minutes ago, BigBillsFan said: I would take Minshew over Allen right now. WTF?? That’s a joke right? Or do you just have a personal agenda against Allen?
pretzel logic Posted March 9, 2020 Posted March 9, 2020 Allen played all 16 games..... minshew played 6-7 games with no tape.....what's the point of this topic?
Putin Posted March 9, 2020 Posted March 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, pretzel logic said: Allen played all 16 games..... minshew played 6-7 games with no tape.....what's the point of this topic? There was a point in this topic ??
BigBillsFan Posted March 9, 2020 Posted March 9, 2020 Only the approved orthodoxy of the masses can be spoken here. The question was asked and I answered honestly from my own perspective. Honestly you guys are so touchy about the subject it's almost laughable. Look I see more as a QB out of a rookie than a 2nd year guy. That's what I see. Allen might be better in the long run, he certainly has better physical traits. I still believed JP was going to suck throwing balls into the ground after he did it 10 times. I believed EJ wasn't going to make it because he processed the game too slowly. I have more hope for Allen, but it's hope based on his hard work and improvements which I can't deny. But yeah, that makes me less a fan to see things more objectively. If Allen wasn't drafted in the 1st round you guys would be singing a different tune. If you want to point to our record maybe Mitch "The Man" Trubisky should be in the same boat. Soft schedule and great defense can't save us unless we get some real production out of the QB position. 1
teef Posted March 9, 2020 Posted March 9, 2020 4 minutes ago, BigBillsFan said: Only the approved orthodoxy of the masses can be spoken here. The question was asked and I answered honestly from my own perspective. Honestly you guys are so touchy about the subject it's almost laughable. Look I see more as a QB out of a rookie than a 2nd year guy. That's what I see. Allen might be better in the long run, he certainly has better physical traits. I still believed JP was going to suck throwing balls into the ground after he did it 10 times. I believed EJ wasn't going to make it because he processed the game too slowly. I have more hope for Allen, but it's hope based on his hard work and improvements which I can't deny. But yeah, that makes me less a fan to see things more objectively. If Allen wasn't drafted in the 1st round you guys would be singing a different tune. If you want to point to our record maybe Mitch "The Man" Trubisky should be in the same boat. Soft schedule and great defense can't save us unless we get some real production out of the QB position. People gave you reasonable responses with stats to back up their response. I don’t agree you have to agree with the masses nonsense. 2
GoBills808 Posted March 9, 2020 Posted March 9, 2020 3 minutes ago, BigBillsFan said: Only the approved orthodoxy of the masses can be spoken here. The question was asked and I answered honestly from my own perspective. Honestly you guys are so touchy about the subject it's almost laughable. Look I see more as a QB out of a rookie than a 2nd year guy. That's what I see. Allen might be better in the long run, he certainly has better physical traits. I still believed JP was going to suck throwing balls into the ground after he did it 10 times. I believed EJ wasn't going to make it because he processed the game too slowly. I have more hope for Allen, but it's hope based on his hard work and improvements which I can't deny. But yeah, that makes me less a fan to see things more objectively. If Allen wasn't drafted in the 1st round you guys would be singing a different tune. If you want to point to our record maybe Mitch "The Man" Trubisky should be in the same boat. Soft schedule and great defense can't save us unless we get some real production out of the QB position. First, you volunteered your opinion. Nobody asked. Second, it's very obvious you haven't watched any Jags games. You're just copy pasting stats without any analysis. 1
BigBillsFan Posted March 9, 2020 Posted March 9, 2020 8 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: First, you volunteered your opinion. Nobody asked. Second, it's very obvious you haven't watched any Jags games. You're just copy pasting stats without any analysis. Wrong, Teef asked. Wrong, I watched their games. His last game against the Colts was amazing. I watched at least 8 of their games when he was starting. He sucked a bunch in several of them. Overall the question was who would you prefer. 11 minutes ago, teef said: People gave you reasonable responses with stats to back up their response. I don’t agree you have to agree with the masses nonsense. You did, that's fair. GoBills808 pointed out rushing stats, also a fair argument to be considered. The rest were the Little Rascals.
MJS Posted March 9, 2020 Posted March 9, 2020 And how did that work out for them? Fewer points, far fewer wins, and now they are signed up for a rebuild. Lucky them.
TroutDog Posted March 9, 2020 Posted March 9, 2020 2 hours ago, Shaw66 said: I really appreciate it when people put PFF in the title of the thread. That means I can ignore. Football Outsiders has the Bills more efficient than Jacksonville. You guys have a good time here; I'm not interested in Jacksonville. It’s ok to not appreciate their work, in my opinion, but to discard them out of hand is not wise...again in my opinion.
atlbillsfan1975 Posted March 9, 2020 Posted March 9, 2020 (edited) Isn’t PFF the site that said Duck was better than Josh? Edited March 9, 2020 by atlbillsfan1975
Chaos Posted March 9, 2020 Posted March 9, 2020 Minshew looked pretty good for a few games. I think he is an NFL starter quality QB. He is not as good as Allen.
MJS Posted March 9, 2020 Posted March 9, 2020 3 minutes ago, atlbillsfan1975 said: Isn’t PFF the site that said Duck was better than Josh? At the time they were facing each other, yes. Not sure if that was still the case later on.
K-9 Posted March 9, 2020 Posted March 9, 2020 51 minutes ago, BigBillsFan said: Only the approved orthodoxy of the masses can be spoken here. The question was asked and I answered honestly from my own perspective. Honestly you guys are so touchy about the subject it's almost laughable. Look I see more as a QB out of a rookie than a 2nd year guy. That's what I see. Allen might be better in the long run, he certainly has better physical traits. I still believed JP was going to suck throwing balls into the ground after he did it 10 times. I believed EJ wasn't going to make it because he processed the game too slowly. I have more hope for Allen, but it's hope based on his hard work and improvements which I can't deny. But yeah, that makes me less a fan to see things more objectively. If Allen wasn't drafted in the 1st round you guys would be singing a different tune. If you want to point to our record maybe Mitch "The Man" Trubisky should be in the same boat. Soft schedule and great defense can't save us unless we get some real production out of the QB position. So, have you figured out the difference between a passer and a quarterback yet?
BringBackOrton Posted March 9, 2020 Posted March 9, 2020 Silly topic aside, as the Bills average more points per drive than the Jags did last season. The Jags averaged more plays and yards per drive. So at worst, it’s a push. However, Folks are sleeping on Minshew. He looked extremely solid as a rookie. And yada yada yada “no tape!” but there was no tape on Josh during his rookie season either and it was FAR worse than Minshew’s. Minshew doesn’t have incredible arm strength but it wouldn’t surprise me if he carved out a decent career down in Jax. 1 hour ago, GoBills808 said: Minshew wasn't 'solid'. He was hot to start and faded into the kind of up and down play you'd expect from a rookie. He's the opposite of solid...a lot of his stats were compiled after the Jags were out of games, and many times (3 game HOU/TAMPA/LAC stretch in particular) it was largely in part due to his poor play early. 32/32 NFL GMs would take Allen over him in a heartbeat. Down in games due to poor play early? Which QB are we talking about again? 1 1
atlbillsfan1975 Posted March 9, 2020 Posted March 9, 2020 5 minutes ago, MJS said: At the time they were facing each other, yes. Not sure if that was still the case later on. yep. I think PFF is one of the worst offenders of using stats to push an agenda.
Rc2catch Posted March 10, 2020 Posted March 10, 2020 I can never put too much stock into this stuff. At one point Kyle Allen was performing better than Josh Allen. Just have to remember the offenses these guys are running. Allen doesn’t sling it all over and air it out cause he was trying extremely hard to limit turnovers. We didn’t play behind much, at least not behind big enough to abandon the run. Jags got throttled a lot of games and Minshew had 470 pass attempts in TWO LESS games than Allen. That tells the whole story right there. We were never a passing team and just my two cents I don’t think the coaching staff trusts Allen to sling it 40 times a game yet. They have really treated him with kid gloves, where Rivera and Marrone were coaching bad teams trying to save their jobs not protect their young quarterbacks confidence.
Lieutenant Aldo Raine Posted March 10, 2020 Posted March 10, 2020 2 hours ago, JaCrispy said: Well, if we are going there today, then I will play along too...if we are being honest, it’s not like it was difficult to be more efficient than the Bills offense...Allen’s numbers were “solid backup QB” numbers imo...? Of course we knew you would play along! Anything that trashes your QB is like a drug to you. Then again, maybe he's "Not Your QB".
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