4BillsintheBurgh Posted March 9, 2020 Posted March 9, 2020 26 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: I think people are missing the point about Norman. Here's what's important: McDermott had him for four years in Carolina, and McDermott knows, for an absolute certainty, that Norman processes McDermott's defense at a high level. That is, what's going on in Norman's brain is what McDermott wants in a corner back. So the only questions are whether at this point in his career he still has the heart and sufficient physical skills to execute what he's thinking. (For most other free agent CBs, McBeane don't know if the guy can process, mentally, what McD wants.) As for the heart and the physical ability. They have watched film of Norman over the past couple of years, and they can tell from the film whether his problems were that he has lost a step. They've probably talked to him a few times in the past couple of months, and they probably think from those talks that he has the heart. So from all aspects that they can evaluate off the field, they must be pretty highly confident that he can contribute at the level McD needs. If they discover at camp that he doesn't have it, they cut him. But my guess is that they're viewing this as a relatively low-risk signing that makes their defensive backfield better than it was in 2019. I agree with BillsfanAZ I'm also assuming he's going to be pretty darn motivated in this "contract year". He will hopefully bring whatever he's got left to try and get one more decent contract after 2020. 1
BillsMafia13 Posted March 9, 2020 Posted March 9, 2020 1 hour ago, CountDorkula said: That pro-bowl season will be 5 seasons ago now. I've questioned whether he is worth it, regardless of contract based on the last 3-4 years of data saying he has been really really bad on the field, where it matters most. The only response i get is "How dare you question McD you idiot" and "its not your money" I have not seen a logical argument that shows otherwise other than he played zone well 5 years ago. Nobody is saying he’s the next Revis. But he did put up all pro play with mcderms and thrived in his system. Then went to a dumpster fire of a team with no support. Now he’s on an upcoming team with a great secondary behind him in a system that fits better with less pressure. You’re actually getting flooded with better arguments than yours dude 2
NewEra Posted March 9, 2020 Posted March 9, 2020 57 minutes ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said: He wasn't in a good scheme fit in Washington but also looked slow and sluggish, The scheme fit you can change but the slow and sluggish part hmmm. It's a low level signing much like Kevin Johnson was last year that could prove to be a solid pickup who both McDermott and Beane are comfortable with so I don't see the downside to this unless he quits at halftime. Playing on the 2nd worst team in football can also make someone look slow and sluggish. He got his big payday (and a decent payday from us) and now it’s time for him to enjoy playing the game again, for a coach that he loves and a scheme that suits him best. I don’t expect the 2015 josh Norman. I also don’t expect 2019 josh Norman. 1 year deal, Beane specialty. Worst case, we cut him and eat some of that money, but most likely he’ll either be a starter or a very solid 4th corner 2
par73 Posted March 9, 2020 Posted March 9, 2020 Has been on the decline the last few years, and benched last year. Hope they can get something out of him, but I'm very skeptical.
Don Otreply Posted March 9, 2020 Posted March 9, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Maybe it wasn't Norman. Maybe it was Manusky. My only thing about this is bringing in a CB for $6M with Poyer under contract for $2.7M salary this year (and publically feeling underpaid) has to seem a bit like a smack in the face to JP. Well Poyer made the decision to accept his deal, for the duration of the deal, so if he is going to get all pouty about it thats on him, he knows how this works, and if he actually expected his team to never bring someone who makes more than 2.7 million to play CB then he is not so active in the brain box. He will have his chance at more money when he negotiates his next contact, it’s that simple. His playing very well on his current deal is why he will have that future opportunity. And is it 6 million guaranteed? Or is that if he hits certain levels of performance? Edited March 9, 2020 by Don Otreply
NewEra Posted March 9, 2020 Posted March 9, 2020 33 minutes ago, DCOrange said: $6-8 million for a guy that’s been legitimately terrible for a few years now is definitely not cheap. We all know the other 3 points, one of which I literally made in the post you’re quoting. It’s cheap because it’s one year. We likely won’t spend to the cap. So yes, it is definitely cheap
Chandler#81 Posted March 9, 2020 Posted March 9, 2020 40 minutes ago, DCOrange said: $6-8 million for a guy that’s been legitimately terrible for a few years now is definitely not cheap. We all know the other 3 points, one of which I literally made in the post you’re quoting. $200M salary cap in 2020 vs $6M for a sometime starter with a solid history and intimately familiar with the Process? C’mon man. Get with the program. 3
wppete Posted March 9, 2020 Posted March 9, 2020 7 hours ago, wvbillsfan said: Would have rather had Kevin Johnson back. Hope they bring him back also. Why not? On a similar contract. 2
HappyDays Posted March 9, 2020 Posted March 9, 2020 We're judging the contract before we actually know what it is. The guaranteed money is what matters. But $6 million is very low, these days that's an above average depth signing. And I imagine that's what Norman will be used as. 1
NewEra Posted March 9, 2020 Posted March 9, 2020 1 minute ago, wppete said: Hope they bring him back also. Why not? On a similar contract. I doubt he’s looking for a 1 year deal. Most likely looking for the most gtd possible. He played very well last year coming off 4 years of injuries. If I’m him, I try and cash in the most gtd money possible 1
Buffalo716 Posted March 9, 2020 Posted March 9, 2020 What people don't realize about cornerbacks is that it's just not man vs zone Every single defense plays man and zone coverages. What the difference is the amount of man vs zone and the fact Norman was following receivers Norman is actually above average in man actually. Where he struggled is Washington asked him to play 70% man and follow guys... He just doesn't have the speed for following guys over the Field... Put him in a 65-35 zone scheme like ours where he won't have too follow people and can use instincts and he should be a good option Not all pro Norman but solid and he is physical 3 1
DCOrange Posted March 9, 2020 Posted March 9, 2020 (edited) 21 minutes ago, NewEra said: It’s cheap because it’s one year. We likely won’t spend to the cap. So yes, it is definitely cheap If he's just referring to the fact that it's a one year deal, then that's fair. But I literally mentioned that in my post by saying "But it's a one year deal and we have plenty of cap space so who really cares?" $6-8 million for a guy that has been terrible the last few years is not cheap though; that's top 20-30 CB money. He could rebound and be end up playing like a top 20-30 CB, but we're paying him on the upside. If he simply maintains his level of play from the past few years, he's worth more like the vet minimum. Again though, I like that we're bringing him in and I don't care about his contract since it's just a one-year deal. Edited March 9, 2020 by DCOrange 1
section122 Posted March 9, 2020 Posted March 9, 2020 5 minutes ago, DCOrange said: If he's just referring to the fact that it's a one year deal, then that's fair. But I literally mentioned that in my post by saying "But it's a one year deal and we have plenty of cap space so who really cares?" $6-8 million for a guy that has been terrible the last few years is not cheap though; that's top 20-30 CB money. He could rebound and be end up playing like a top 20-30 CB, but we're paying him on the upside. If he simply maintains his level of play from the past few years, he's worth more like the vet minimum. I was interested so I looked it up on spotrac. He is tied for 27th highest cb contract. I expect after fa that he will be just outside top 30. For a 1 year deal I can't be too mad about this. McD likes to have a vet in every room and Norman had tremendous success with him. 2
KOKBILLS Posted March 9, 2020 Posted March 9, 2020 Listened to the Clinton Portis interview on One Bills Live just now...I'm paraphrasing here...But it sounds like it was a well known fact around the Redskins that Norman was not a fit for what they were doing Defensively and no one was happy about it...The cut move was likely more about that cap savings then Rivera not wanting him, though Portis seemed to indicate Norman was done with Washington and wanted a change... I still think it's 50/50 he makes the final roster...But he could be a real nice pick up for a year if everything goes well...We'll see...? 2
Lurker Posted March 9, 2020 Posted March 9, 2020 10 minutes ago, KOKBILLS said: I still think it's 50/50 he makes the final roster...But he could be a real nice pick up for a year if everything goes well...We'll see...? That's where I'm at as well. Once we learn how much the guaranteed money is, we'll have a better handle on which "fifty" seems more likely.... 1
billykay Posted March 9, 2020 Posted March 9, 2020 32 minutes ago, DCOrange said: If he's just referring to the fact that it's a one year deal, then that's fair. But I literally mentioned that in my post by saying "But it's a one year deal and we have plenty of cap space so who really cares?" $6-8 million for a guy that has been terrible the last few years is not cheap though; that's top 20-30 CB money. He could rebound and be end up playing like a top 20-30 CB, but we're paying him on the upside. If he simply maintains his level of play from the past few years, he's worth more like the vet minimum. Again though, I like that we're bringing him in and I don't care about his contract since it's just a one-year deal. I would guess that Norman may have had other offers in the 5M range. If we wanted him , then we had to beat those offers.
DCOrange Posted March 9, 2020 Posted March 9, 2020 3 minutes ago, billykay said: I would guess that Norman may have had other offers in the 5M range. If we wanted him , then we had to beat those offers. Definitely sounds like other teams were interested. Obviously no idea what those teams were offering but I assume he had at least one other offer for similar money.
njbuff Posted March 9, 2020 Posted March 9, 2020 I guess the Bills should bring in OBJ just for the entertainment value. ?
KOKBILLS Posted March 9, 2020 Posted March 9, 2020 7 minutes ago, Lurker said: That's where I'm at as well. Once we learn how much the guaranteed money is, we'll have a better handle on which "fifty" seems more likely.... Murph and Chris Brown are saying no guaranteed money...All base salary with incentives...Not saying that's right...But it's what they said...? 1
Mango Posted March 9, 2020 Posted March 9, 2020 1 hour ago, BillsMafia13 said: Nobody is saying he’s the next Revis. But he did put up all pro play with mcderms and thrived in his system. Then went to a dumpster fire of a team with no support. Now he’s on an upcoming team with a great secondary behind him in a system that fits better with less pressure. You’re actually getting flooded with better arguments than yours dude To play devils advocate, the HC, Ron Rivera, where he thrived is the the one who cut him. It’s not like he couldn’t have been kept as a system guy in Washington.
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