DCOrange Posted March 14, 2020 Posted March 14, 2020 12 minutes ago, noacls said: Got ya did not see upthread. What I'm saying is he is slow and cant jump. His speed score is literally one of the best in this WR class.
noacls Posted March 14, 2020 Posted March 14, 2020 Just now, DCOrange said: His speed score is literally one of the best in this WR class. The 4.56 or the fake 4.43 that was reported
GunnerBill Posted March 14, 2020 Posted March 14, 2020 8 minutes ago, whorlnut said: It’s beyond hilarious how much people dislike Higgins. His numbers didn’t blow anyone away but they didn’t send up red flags either. His claim to fame is his play on the field and actually catching the ball. It really is. I think there is a hell of a lot of groupthink going on here. That said @thebandit27 doesn't much like Higgins either and I respect his view on prospects as much as anyone on the board. I don't see it like he does though. I think Higgins is a good prospect and I think he has a chance to be a very good NFL player. 1
JoPoy88 Posted March 14, 2020 Posted March 14, 2020 6 minutes ago, BillsFan2313 said: Production doesn't matter. Combine numbers do. Right. Probably why they drafted Zay Jones. All about that college production. Best indicator. Probably also why all those hawaii QBs that broke all those passing records had such epic careers in the NFL. All about that (((college))) production.
Alphadawg7 Posted March 14, 2020 Posted March 14, 2020 (edited) 26 minutes ago, noacls said: Yeah, he's almost as fast as the Bills middle linebacker. ? Since when is 4.45 range run slow for a WR? 20 minutes ago, noacls said: Do some research, it's called google. Jerry Rice did not run a 4.73. Go look at his numbers when he played TOP programs. Got shut down for most part. http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/deandre-hopkins?id=2540165 What’s your opinion of DeAndre Hopkins? Seems like he’s an Elite WR to me. RAN A 4.57 40 YARD DASH. But please keep telling us how Higgins is too slow who is significantly faster than one of the 2 best WRs in football. Maybe you’re blind and don’t think Hopkins is a good WR. So here’s another one... How do you feel about Micheal Thomas? RAN A 4.57 40 YARD DASH. http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/michael-thomas?id=2555347 Anyone saying Higgins is slow or not fast enough, whose has significantly faster 40 time than the best WRs in football Hopkins and Thomas, should probably not evaluate WRs. If you don’t like Higgins for other reasons, fine, but he’s MORE than fast enough to be an Elite WR at the next level. Doesn’t mean he will be, it means SPEED IS NOT AN ISSUE for Higgins and everyone needs to move on to discussing something OTHER THAN “is he fast enough”. Edited March 14, 2020 by Alphadawg7 3
BillsFan2313 Posted March 14, 2020 Posted March 14, 2020 3 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said: Right. Probably why they drafted Zay Jones. All about that college production. Best indicator. Probably also why all those hawaii QBs that broke all those passing records had such epic careers in the NFL. All about that (((college))) production. How many players who weren't productive in college, are productive in the NFL? Honest question.
noacls Posted March 14, 2020 Posted March 14, 2020 2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Since when is 4.43 slow for a WR? http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/deandre-hopkins?id=2540165 What’s your opinion of DeAndre Hopkins? Seems like he’s an Elite WR to me. RAN A 4.57 40 YARD DASH. But please keep telling us how Higgins is too slow who is significantly faster than one of the 2 best WRs in football. Maybe you’re blind and don’t think Hopkins is a good WR. So here’s another one... How do you feel about Micheal Thomas? RAN A 4.57 40 YARD DASH. http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/michael-thomas?id=2555347 Anyone saying Higgins is slow or not fast enough, whose has significantly faster 40 time than the best WRs in football Hopkins and Thomas, should probably not evaluate WRs. If you don’t like Higgins for other reasons, fine, but he’s MORE than fast enough to be an Elite WR at the next level. Doesn’t mean he will be, it means SPEED IS NOT AN ISSUE for Higgins and everyone needs to move on to discussing something OTHER THAN “is he fast enough”. Because he did not run a 4.43
GunnerBill Posted March 14, 2020 Posted March 14, 2020 2 minutes ago, noacls said: Because he did not run a 4.43 No he ran a 4.58. And the two examples of two of the best 3 or 4 receivers in the NFL that were quoted to you ran 4.57. Maybe that 0.01 is all the difference but I am sceptical. 3
JoPoy88 Posted March 14, 2020 Posted March 14, 2020 (edited) 17 minutes ago, noacls said: The 4.56 or the fake 4.43 that was reported i will say, if Tee did run that fake 4.43 (which he didn’t) I’d be impressed. But he didn’t, he didn’t run on the same track that all the other guys did, and he still ran slow. dude people are just obsessed with getting a big guy, that’s all it is (remember the Duke Williams obsession?) Who cares if he can’t get open in the NFL? He can catch “jump balls!” As if building a modern NFL passing offense should be predicated on throwing into coverage and hoping big, slow Tee can out rebound the cornerback and the safety. Not quite how I saw KC do it, but let these guys have their fun. Edited March 14, 2020 by JoPoy88 1
noacls Posted March 14, 2020 Posted March 14, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said: i will say, if Tee did run that fake 4.43 (which he didn’t) I’d be impressed. But he didn’t, he didn’t run on the same track that all the other guy did, and he still ran slow. dude people are just obsessed with getting a big guy, that’s all it is (remember the Duke Williams obsession?) Who cares if he can’t get open in the NFL? He can catch “jump balls!” As if building a modern NFL passing offense should be predicated on throwing into coverage and hoping big, slow Tee can out rebound the cornerback and the safety. Not quite how I saw KC do it, but let these guys have their fun. Great take JP. Higgins will not be physical mismatch in NFL. Also if 4.43 was legit he would not be there at 22 Edited March 14, 2020 by noacls 1 1
GunnerBill Posted March 14, 2020 Posted March 14, 2020 2 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said: i will say, if Tee did run that fake 4.43 (which he didn’t) I’d be impressed. But he didn’t, he didn’t run on the same track that all the other guy did, and he still ran slow. dude people are just obsessed with getting a big guy, that’s all it is (remember the Duke Williams obsession?) Who cares if he can’t get open in the NFL? He can catch “jump balls!” As if building a modern NFL passing offense should be predicated on throwing into coverage and hoping big, slow Tee can out rebound the cornerback and the safety. Not quite how I saw KC do it, but let these guys have their fun. It has nothing to do with size for me. I hate the "we must get a big guy" thing. It has to do with me genuinely believing that when all things are considered he is the best of the 2nd tier wideouts in this class. I don't have a bias towards size guys or speed guys or anything else. Just take the best guy has always been my mantra when it comes to receivers. 1 1
noacls Posted March 14, 2020 Posted March 14, 2020 Just now, arcane said: Why are people convinced the 4.43 was fake? Scouts and media people are saying it.
Alphadawg7 Posted March 14, 2020 Posted March 14, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, noacls said: Because he did not run a 4.43 8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: No he ran a 4.58. And the two examples of two of the best 3 or 4 receivers in the NFL that were quoted to you ran 4.57. Maybe that 0.01 is all the difference but I am sceptical. 5 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said: i will say, if Tee did run that fake 4.43 (which he didn’t) I’d be impressed. But he didn’t, he didn’t run on the same track that all the other guy did, and he still ran slow. dude people are just obsessed with getting a big guy, that’s all it is (remember the Duke Williams obsession?) Who cares if he can’t get open in the NFL? He can catch “jump balls!” As if building a modern NFL passing offense should be predicated on throwing into coverage and hoping big, slow Tee can out rebound the cornerback and the safety. Not quite how I saw KC do it, but let these guys have their fun. Was not aware the other time was dismissed or not confirmed or what not and amended my previous post, but the point still stands. I mean even his worst time he ran the same time essentially as the two best WRs in the NFL in Hopkins and Thomas. SPEED IS NOT AN ISSUE. Move on from speed concerns. Edited March 14, 2020 by Alphadawg7 2 1
noacls Posted March 14, 2020 Posted March 14, 2020 1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said: Was not aware the other time was dismissed or not confirmed or what not and amended my previous post, but the point still stands. I mean even his worst time he ran the same time essentially as the two best WRs in the NFL in Hopkins and Thomas. SPEED IS NOT AN ISSUE. Move on from speed concerns. Hopkins and Thomas are good points to make. I just dont beleive Higgins has the physicality of those 2. Thomas also has Drew Brees
Alphadawg7 Posted March 14, 2020 Posted March 14, 2020 2 minutes ago, noacls said: Hopkins and Thomas are good points to make. I just dont beleive Higgins has the physicality of those 2. Thomas also has Drew Brees Hopkins is not physical. He’s smooth. Thomas has definitely got some physical aspects of his game. But Higgins is great at high pointing himself. He’s made a lot of contested catches. All I’m saying is that people can criticize whatever they want about him, but it’s factually incorrect to say he’s not fast enough for the NFL. 2 1
Don Otreply Posted March 14, 2020 Posted March 14, 2020 25 minutes ago, whorlnut said: It’s beyond hilarious how much people dislike Higgins. His numbers didn’t blow anyone away but they didn’t send up red flags either. His claim to fame is his play on the field and actually catching the ball. Agree, Catching the damn ball is first and foremost the #1 trait you look for in a receiver, (SM said this as well at the combine) With our teams drop rate the last two seasons one would think that would be everyone’s first concern with receiver acquisitions. Jmo. Go Bills!!! 1
GunnerBill Posted March 14, 2020 Posted March 14, 2020 1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said: Hopkins is not physical. He’s smooth. Thomas has definitely got some physical aspects of his game. But Higgins is great at high pointing himself. He’s made a lot of contested catches. All I’m saying is that people can criticize whatever they want about him, but it’s factually incorrect to say he’s not fast enough for the NFL. The element of Hopkins game that is elite more than anything else is his body positioning. His ability to get his body into a position where it makes it exceptionally hard for the defender to make a play without drawing a flag is incredible. Higgins isn't at that level yet but he has some similar qualities in that regard.
JoPoy88 Posted March 14, 2020 Posted March 14, 2020 7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: It has nothing to do with size for me. I hate the "we must get a big guy" thing. It has to do with me genuinely believing that when all things are considered he is the best of the 2nd tier wideouts in this class. I don't have a bias towards size guys or speed guys or anything else. Just take the best guy has always been my mantra when it comes to receivers. exactly. if people think higgins is going to be the best guy there whenever they pick then fine. I am sick of the jump ball, contested catch talk, as if that’s sustainable. How about just continue to get fast guys that can run great routes or even not-so-fast-but-smart guys that know how to get open? Sort of like the guys they’ve already brought in? Personally I don’t want Josh Allen of all people throwing into tight coverage; I don’t care if he’s throwing to a 7 foot tall tee higgins. I don’t have that kind of trust in him yet.
whorlnut Posted March 14, 2020 Posted March 14, 2020 5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: The element of Hopkins game that is elite more than anything else is his body positioning. His ability to get his body into a position where it makes it exceptionally hard for the defender to make a play without drawing a flag is incredible. Higgins isn't at that level yet but he has some similar qualities in that regard. The thing that blows me away about Higgins is how his hands just seem to absorb the ball. It’s so smooth and effortless. With the velocity that Allen puts on the ball, I think this is a trait that could really stand out for Beane.
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