Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 31, 2020 Author Posted March 31, 2020 13 minutes ago, Augie said: You still have lord knows who stocking the shelves, then they touch it again to scan it and bag it. Everything is touched multiple times, and recently, before you get it home. I take wipes with me for both hands in coat pockets. I take it home, then wipe everything down the best I can before storing it, washing my hands before and after. And I’ll still get it eventually, as most of us will. Hopefully not any time soon. Pro tip: put time on your side. If it's perishable, you must store it soon, certainly wipe before storing. But canned goods and dry goods, try to shop before you're absolutely out and just let them sit in the corner for several days before you use them or put them away. 2nd pro tip: if you have something like Apple Pay on your phone, enable it and put your favorite credit card(s) in it so you don't have to hand someone the card or swipe it through the machine. Treat all cash as though it's covered in dog poop; avoid it, and if you must accept it accept it with a bag over your hand. Same thing with mail: use a plastic bag over your hand to transfer mail to a paper bag. Anything not requiring urgent attention, just let it sit 24 hrs. Next day, deal with it, transfer in the new mail, and wash. 5 minutes ago, Figster said: We can learn, but clearly everyone does not reach the same conclusions. China is telling the US right now we are fighting the virus all wrong. We the people are the front lines of this invisible war and without proper protection for everyone our doctors, nurses, supplies and hospitals will never be able to keep up with the spread. Everyone needs the masks... Figster - in China, the masks everyone wears are ordinary paper medical masks. I promise you! Sometimes cloth masks. Oh, yeah, in places where they're available, they all wear gloves, too (Taiwan, S. Korea etc.)Not N95 respirators. I personally agree everyone should be masked, but leave the respirators for the doctors and nurses or they won't just not be able to keep up, they'll be SICK or DEAD when you need them. 1
SDS Posted March 31, 2020 Posted March 31, 2020 Tell me if I’m wrong if I think that food distribution sites, which affect every single person in America, are probably the most important part of this pandemic response. I guess the question is, what is the safest way to distribute food and medicine to every single person in this country?
Augie Posted March 31, 2020 Posted March 31, 2020 19 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: A bunch of places do "order online, pick up in store" already - Walmart and Target, for example. There's also Shipt and Instacart, but in some places they're just not available right now (just tried to get one for my kid) Unfortunately from the same retail worker friend, a lot of workers are really frustrated by customers who are plainly out shopping with the kids to "get out of the house". Target and Walmart are still open because they sell items considered essential, like groceries and cleaning supplies and baby stuff. But people are out browsing through the toys and bedding and housewares aisles. Can you say more? What are the workers' concerns? Sorry, I just caught a brief mention in part of the news. Most of it was about Amazon/WF workers. I can imagine the same assumptions you can, including they’d like a better deal. But they are taking the same risks I am by going to the store.....they just do it for hours on end. I get in and out half as often as I used to. I get that it’s NOT what it used to be. I was impressed when they mentioned Kroger would start installing plexiglass to protect cashiers and customers. I hope everybody does this asap. A lot of little things we never thought of before. The world keeps changing, and we keep learning.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 31, 2020 Author Posted March 31, 2020 13 minutes ago, SDS said: Tell me if I’m wrong if I think that food distribution sites, which affect every single person in America, are probably the most important part of this pandemic response. I guess the question is, what is the safest way to distribute food and medicine to every single person in this country? I don't know about "most important". I would put protecting the health care system and workers and first responders as most important, and right now we are doing a sucky job. For example, nurses and doctors are working shifts with sketchy PPE then coming home to families. Not only will they become ill, but they each represent an infection chain that will propagate. They should have quarters available to them, as well as on-site or near-site showers and changing facilities so they don't go home in potentially contaminated clothes and shoes. But you're not wrong that assuring a supply of food and medicine is right up there on the "important" list. In Wuhan, they initially allowed people to go out and purchase food but eventually had soldiers deliver it. You got what they delivered. And sick people had to leave their families and quarantine in these sort of semi-hospitals, even if they weren't that ill.
SDS Posted March 31, 2020 Posted March 31, 2020 My point is 330 Americans depend on food and a much smaller amount will depend on healthcare. Everything starts with water, then food then other things. It’s just my opinion, but the reaction to this pandemic is nothing until it touches the food supply. When that happens all hell will break loose. All hell.
Augie Posted March 31, 2020 Posted March 31, 2020 1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I don't know about "most important". I would put protecting the health care system and workers and first responders as most important, and right now we are doing a sucky job. For example, nurses and doctors are working shifts with sketchy PPE then coming home to families. Not only will they become ill, but they each represent an infection chain that will propegate. But you're not wrong that it's up there - food and medicine. In Wuhan, they initially allowed people to go out and purchase food but eventually had soldiers deliver it. You got what they delivered. And sick people had to leave their families and quarantine in these sort of semi-hospitals, even if they weren't that ill. A guy on my college hoops board is reporting 18% of confirmed cases are health care workers. What a MESS! Of course, they probably get tested much more easily. My wife has a guy on her team in Boston VERY ill, trying to get tested since Saturday, but he can’t get in. He’s a serious Bills fan! Get him the test! Seriously, his only option is to go to the ER and certainly get exposed! It’s a lose/lose. He’s the guy who kept going to the office to use his big monitors, until my wife shipped them to his house.....apparently too late. She didn’t know. 4 minutes ago, SDS said: My point is 330 Americans depend on food and a much smaller amount will depend on healthcare. Everything starts with water, then food then other things. It’s just my opinion, but the reaction to this pandemic is nothing until it touches the food supply. When that happens all hell will break loose. All hell. I bet the National Guard never thought they were signing up for cashier duty. I mean, really....what happens? I’m a daily shopper, and I know most of the people at our GIANT Publix grocery by name. What I can’t know is who was NOT there, and why.
SDS Posted March 31, 2020 Posted March 31, 2020 4 minutes ago, Augie said: A guy on my college hoops board is reporting 18% of confirmed cases are health care workers. What a MESS! Of course, they probably get tested much more easily. My wife has a guy on her team in Boston VERY ill, trying to get tested since Saturday, but he can’t get in. He’s a serious Bills fan! Get him the test! Seriously, his only option is to go to the ER and certainly get exposed! It’s a lose/lose. He’s the guy who kept going to the office to use his big monitors, until my wife shipped them to his house.....apparently too late. She didn’t know. I bet the National Guard never thought they were signing up for cashier duty. I mean, really....what happens? I’m a daily shopper, and I know most of the people at our GIANT Publix grocery by name. What I can’t know is who was NOT there, and why. Well I hope it’s not daily anymore.
Augie Posted March 31, 2020 Posted March 31, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, SDS said: Well I hope it’s not daily anymore. Certainly NOT! I do go a couple times a week for milk and bananas, veggies, etc. I also shop for my mother as at 92 I want to keep her off the retirement bus and out of the stores. What was a daily routine has become a semi-frightening adventure with wipes in both pockets. . Edited March 31, 2020 by Augie
SDS Posted March 31, 2020 Posted March 31, 2020 26 minutes ago, Augie said: Certainly NOT! I do go a couple times a week for milk and bananas, veggies, etc. I also shop for my mother as at 92 I want to keep her off the retirement bus and out of the stores. What was a daily routine has become a semi-frightening adventure with wipes in both pockets. . I have no idea what should be acceptable. I have reduced it to once per week at minimum. Two weeks would be a goal. If you go longer than that then you end up buying more than stores can handle in my opinion. Correct me if I’m wrong. Multiple times per week seems like quite a bit, but that’s an impression.
May Day 10 Posted March 31, 2020 Posted March 31, 2020 https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/30/health/coronavirus-lower-death-rate/index.html
Augie Posted March 31, 2020 Posted March 31, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, SDS said: I have no idea what should be acceptable. I have reduced it to once per week at minimum. Two weeks would be a goal. If you go longer than that then you end up buying more than stores can handle in my opinion. Correct me if I’m wrong. Multiple times per week seems like quite a bit, but that’s an impression. If you go from 6+ times a week to only two times a week it seems like a huge cutback. Today was actually shocking as it was completely deserted. I take a wipe for each hand, and re-wipe the pre-cleaned cart. I wipe stuff when I buy it, then again when I get home. What has shocked me the most (other than, you know...people dying!) is the labels on processed food! One can of soup can be 75% of your daily sodium! I’m not sure what will kill me first! I got a bunch of frozen stuff when that was all that was left a couple weeks ago. I’ve now read the labels, and I’d feel bad taking this processed stuff to a food bank! I care about those people too much! Hard to eat fresh and avoid the stores. It’s an interesting balancing act. . Edited March 31, 2020 by Augie
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 31, 2020 Author Posted March 31, 2020 10 minutes ago, May Day 10 said: https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/30/health/coronavirus-lower-death-rate/index.html Eh, that would be nice, but two caveats: 1) S. Korea, which has done about the most testing per population of any country and which is known to be counting asymptomatic cases, still has a death rate of 1.7% - including the asymptomatic cases. They also still have 4,216 active cases, some of which are seriously/critically ill https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries 2) That nice low death rate ONLY applies if the cases at any one time are kept low enough that the hospital system is not overwhelmed. If the hospital system is overwhelmed, the death rate soars. You'd have to find a helluvalotta asymptomatic cases to bring Italy's 11.4% death rate anything that low. 1
Figster Posted March 31, 2020 Posted March 31, 2020 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Pro tip: put time on your side. If it's perishable, you must store it soon, certainly wipe before storing. But canned goods and dry goods, try to shop before you're absolutely out and just let them sit in the corner for several days before you use them or put them away. 2nd pro tip: if you have something like Apple Pay on your phone, enable it and put your favorite credit card(s) in it so you don't have to hand someone the card or swipe it through the machine. Treat all cash as though it's covered in dog poop; avoid it, and if you must accept it accept it with a bag over your hand. Same thing with mail: use a plastic bag over your hand to transfer mail to a paper bag. Anything not requiring urgent attention, just let it sit 24 hrs. Next day, deal with it, transfer in the new mail, and wash. Figster - in China, the masks everyone wears are ordinary paper medical masks. I promise you! Sometimes cloth masks. Oh, yeah, in places where they're available, they all wear gloves, too (Taiwan, S. Korea etc.)Not N95 respirators. I personally agree everyone should be masked, but leave the respirators for the doctors and nurses or they won't just not be able to keep up, they'll be SICK or DEAD when you need them. Myself personally, mass producing the N95 mask and distributing it equally among the health care workers, essential business workers and the general public is the most prudent course of action in my humble opinion. My point is Happless you have to cut the problem off at its source or it will continue to grow. 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 31, 2020 Author Posted March 31, 2020 3 minutes ago, Figster said: Myself personally, mass producing the N95 mask and distributing it equally among the health care workers, essential business workers and the general public is the most prudent course of action in my humble opinion. My point is Happless you have to cut the problem off at its source or it will continue to grow. You can cut the problem off at the source by STFH, social distancing, and measures like hand washing and wearing any old masks for the general public - like they did in China, Taiwan, Singapore, S. Korea, and Japan. If you think those countries were mass distributing N95 respirators, Think Again. They weren't. Sorry, we'll have to agree to disagree on N95 respirator masks. If there's any shortage, HCW get them. Next up, first responders and essential workers like pharmacy and grocery. We're asking HCW and first responders to put their lives and health and their family's lives and health on the line, you want to tell me Johnny Public deserves an equal shot at protection he doesn't know how to use properly - I don't think that's a moral stance. If I'm asking someone to risk his or her life for all of us, they deserve more. IN my opinion. Keep in mind you've been arguing that people shouldn't glove because they can't figure out how to take them off properly to avoid contamination. Now you're arguing people can use a respirator mask that requires a sealed fit to function properly? I do see a little inconsistancy here. I'm not gonna keep going on this though. We'll just disagree.
Augie Posted March 31, 2020 Posted March 31, 2020 19 minutes ago, SDS said: I have no idea what should be acceptable. I have reduced it to once per week at minimum. Two weeks would be a goal. If you go longer than that then you end up buying more than stores can handle in my opinion. Correct me if I’m wrong. Multiple times per week seems like quite a bit, but that’s an impression. In “normal times” I would decide what’s for dinner daily. I might know I want shrimp scampi tonight, but no idea about tomorrow. I’m ALWAYS in the express line. I shop often but buy little.
Figster Posted March 31, 2020 Posted March 31, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: You can cut the problem off at the source by STFH and social distancing. Sorry, we'll have to agree to disagree on N95 respirator masks. If there's any shortage, HCW get them. Next up, first responders and essential workers like pharmacy and grocery. I understand, Myself personally, I don't put much faith in a paper mask. Again, I appreciate the good discussion. Thanks Edited March 31, 2020 by Figster
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 31, 2020 Author Posted March 31, 2020 5 minutes ago, Augie said: In “normal times” I would decide what’s for dinner daily. I might know I want shrimp scampi tonight, but no idea about tomorrow. I’m ALWAYS in the express line. I shop often but buy little. Yeah, my mom was like that in younger healthier years. Shopping was her almost-daily entertainment, the meat and poultry and produce workers and a lot of the checkers at her nearest supermarket all knew her by name. It was super hard for me to get her to give me a 1x/week grocery list when she was waiting for/recovering from surgery, and this was with getting most of her breakfasts and dinners provided for her. And she'd inevitably call before I got home to tell me what she'd forgotten. 1
Augie Posted March 31, 2020 Posted March 31, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Yeah, my mom was like that in younger healthier years. Shopping was her almost-daily entertainment, the meat and poultry and produce workers and a lot of the checkers at her nearest supermarket all knew her by name. It was super hard for me to get her to give me a 1x/week grocery list when she was waiting for/recovering from surgery, and this was with getting most of her breakfasts and dinners provided for her. And she'd inevitably call before I got home to tell me what she'd forgotten. Your bad! You got her the phone! As I said elsewhere, we don’t HAVE TO do these things, we GET TO DO these things. Important life lesson. I’ll miss the day when I no longer have that job. My wife lost her mom a couple years ago, and she would LOVE the chance to do something for her! . Edited March 31, 2020 by Augie 1
transplantbillsfan Posted March 31, 2020 Posted March 31, 2020 Is everyone's "stay at home" order the same? For example: Living in Hawai'i we have one in place through at least April 30th (I think almost certainly to be extended), but for "essential activities." So, do "essential activities" vary by state? My wife and I went for 2 separate hour long walks over the weekend, one to the local Foodland to pick up a few things. I went surfing this morning because surfing is allowed as long as you maintain "social distancing" and then went to Costco because the line wasn't out the door today. These things are allowed and are not against state mandates. Of course, in Foodland and Costco everyone was staying away from each other--will there be some long term effects societally because of this "social distancing" we're required to do? So... are these the types of things allowed where all the other "shelter in place" orders are? Are they more strict? Less strict? Should the orders here be more strict? Less strict? Genuinely curious because I think this country should probably just have an across-the-board order for every citizen at this point.
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