Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 30, 2020 Author Posted March 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Sundancer said: I am guessing that our desire for Faster impact of anything on this will have countries producing vaccines and treatments before the full trials are complete. Given the circumstances this makes sense but I sure hope the trials bear out any optimism. The standard procedure is that there are people remote from the study analyzing the data as the study progresses. If they find statistically significant effects between the arms of the study, they break the blind and start treating the placebo branch. 1
Warcodered Posted March 30, 2020 Posted March 30, 2020 (edited) 9 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: One Funny Mother - "I made pudding" ?? With the way the kid was going I was expecting a sharp turn to the video's tone. Edited March 30, 2020 by Warcodered 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 30, 2020 Author Posted March 30, 2020 55 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said: Fair enough. I it's still a guesstimate from a few hours to a day. SARs stays on latex for 8 hours... But, SARs ain't exactly COVID-19 of course! So much we don't know of the new strain. https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/2020/03/25/coronavirus-survives-on-metal-plastic-cardboard-common-objects/2866340001/ No log in if Incognito: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/03/17/health/coronavirus-surfaces-aerosols.amp.html Cites: NEJM "...Health care workers might also collect those tiny droplets and larger ones on their protective gear when working with infected patients. They might resuspend these big and small droplets into the air when they take off this protective gear and become exposed to the virus then, Dr. Marr cautioned. A study that is being reviewed by experts bears out this fear. And another study, published March 4 in JAMA, also indicates that the virus is transported by air. That study, based in Singapore, found the virus on a ventilator in the hospital room of an infected patient, where it could only have reached via the air. ..." https://www.huffpost.com/entry/coronavirus-skin-hair-nails_l_5e73ce08c5b6eab77944be05 https://www.businessinsider.com/how-long-can-coronavirus-live-on-surfaces-how-to-disinfect-2020-3 https://www.kltv.com/2020/03/27/how-long-does-coronavirus-live-clothes-skin/ "...She explains, "So the best guess-timate we have, as far as these viruses are able to stay on skin, clothes, and fabrics of other types, is between several hours and up to one day. And it’s frustrating to have such a wide estimate but it’s because we still don’t know so much about this virus. ..." In other words, no evidence that covid-19 will live longer on gloves than on skin. (several of these studies are linked over in the covid-19 facts thread). Hasn't been studied yet; the plastic in the NEJM study is hard plastic vs. the more flexible nitrile glove. Skin is unlikely to dehydrate a virus particle, it's a bit warm, it's a bit moist, I would expect coronavirus to like it rather well, but that's just a guess. The bit about resuspending droplets when removing protective gear is the reason why "best practices" to work with a highly contagious disease involve double gloving, a "donning partner" preshift and "directed removal" post-shift. This is how MSF (Doctors without Borders) handled Ebola and Nebraska works. I promise if you take your gloves off as demonstrated in that video, you will not resuspend droplets or spread them all over. By the way, latex gloves are relatively rare these days due to latex allergies in HCW...far more common these days, nitrile.
Sundancer Posted March 30, 2020 Posted March 30, 2020 (edited) VA: “Stay at home” until June 10 order. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcwashington.com/news/coronavirus/virginia-gov-northam-issues-stay-at-home-order/2258486/%3famp MD issues indefinite date stay at home order. Those dates will tank the economy in a way we are only seeing hints of right now. The 2-3 week extensions may be psychologically preferable. Edited March 30, 2020 by Sundancer 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 30, 2020 Author Posted March 30, 2020 2 hours ago, Figster said: I agree, and its a good point. Reaching into your pocket alone can cross contaminate. I still think however the gloves give you more problems then solutions. It boils down to what we as individuals feel is the safest. I hope everyone makes the right decisions. Myself personally, having tried the latex glove approach while shopping. I came away from the experience with the opinion sanitizing my hands with the sanitary napkins / hand sanitizers most stores supply works equally as well with less problem worrying about proper removal or disposal. With all due respect Figster, I do understand that if people don't do things correctly, the results can be unpredictable. I get it. But no, it really does not "boil down to what we as individuals feel is the safest". And I do feel most people can learn. Hospitals and clinics have not gone to the expense of universal precautions in the face of contagious disease because "it's just a matter of individual choice which is safest". Your personal risk from shopping is likely to be fairly low at this point, either way, but if you are someone who has dozens or hundreds of interpersonal interactions per day as in working at a pharmacy, there's a higher risk, and hands vs gloves are not the same. And I hope to heck you don't disagree with me that N95 masks should be prioritized to health care workers or that they are ineffective unless properly fitted and fit-checked.
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted March 30, 2020 Posted March 30, 2020 47 minutes ago, Sundancer said: VA: “Stay at home” until June 10 order. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcwashington.com/news/coronavirus/virginia-gov-northam-issues-stay-at-home-order/2258486/%3famp MD issues indefinite date stay at home order. Those dates will tank the economy in a way we are only seeing hints of right now. The 2-3 week extensions may be psychologically preferable. I agree with you on the psychology of the 2-week extensions. PA today just went to an indefinite extension too. Felt very deflating.
BillsFan4 Posted March 31, 2020 Posted March 31, 2020 One thing I’ve found with the constant hand washing - bar soap is a lot more gentle on my hands vs liquid soap. They don’t get as chapped when I use bar soap. 1
Justin C Posted March 31, 2020 Posted March 31, 2020 Edit: Article link in NY Times (should be free) https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/30/health/coronavirus-restrictions-fevers.html?referringSource=articleShare Company website: https://healthweather.us/ 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 31, 2020 Author Posted March 31, 2020 26 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said: One thing I’ve found with the constant hand washing - bar soap is a lot more gentle on my hands vs liquid soap. They don’t get as chapped when I use bar soap. One of the best cures I've found for chapped hands is to slather your hands thickly with vasoline, put heavy cleaning-style rubber gloves on, and either wash dishes in very warm water or get a bucket o' suds and scrub something. The warm water helps the vasoline seep into your skin. Granny-style Spa Treatment plus something you own gets clean. 1
SDS Posted March 31, 2020 Posted March 31, 2020 Been thinking about supply chains a lot. No one is supposed to panic because grocery stores are open, but clearly there’s going to be a time in certain places where the grocery store workers say it’s not worth it. I am not sure how we avoid a panic as it gets worse.
Augie Posted March 31, 2020 Posted March 31, 2020 10 minutes ago, SDS said: Been thinking about supply chains a lot. No one is supposed to panic because grocery stores are open, but clearly there’s going to be a time in certain places where the grocery store workers say it’s not worth it. I am not sure how we avoid a panic as it gets worse. I believe that has already happened with Whole Food employees. It was one of the topics on the Nightly News tonight. They want better protection, insurance improvements, hazard pay, etc. Also Amazon employees. Saw a piece that Kroger was looking to add plexiglass along the cashier line. Put your stuff on at one end, bypass the cashier then pay at the other end. Makes sense to me, but you are still all touching the same stuff! THAT doesn’t change. This is a VERY real concern. It was the nightly news.....so I’m not sure how real or deep it is, yet.
SDS Posted March 31, 2020 Posted March 31, 2020 Just now, Augie said: I believe that has already happened with Whole Food employees. It was one of the topics on the Nightly News tonight. They want better protection, insurance improvements, hazard pay, etc. Also Amazon employees. Saw a piece that Kroger was looking to add plexiglass along the cashier line. Put your stuff on at one end, bypass the cashier then pay at the other end. Makes sense to me, but you are still all touching the same stuff! THAT doesn’t change. This is a VERY real concern. It was the nightly news.....so I’m not sure how real or deep it is, yet. If I allowed my ignorant self to speak out loud, I would test concentrating store employees packing the grocery lists themselves and then customers paying online and then picking up. You have to stop 1000 people going into the store and touching everything. 1 1
Augie Posted March 31, 2020 Posted March 31, 2020 2 minutes ago, SDS said: If I allowed my ignorant self to speak out loud, I would test concentrating store employees packing the grocery lists themselves and then customers paying online and then picking up. You have to stop 1000 people going into the store and touching everything. You still have lord knows who stocking the shelves, then they touch it again to scan it and bag it. Everything is touched multiple times, and recently, before you get it home. I take wipes with me for both hands in coat pockets. I take it home, then wipe everything down the best I can before storing it, washing my hands before and after. And I’ll still get it eventually, as most of us will. Hopefully not any time soon.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 31, 2020 Author Posted March 31, 2020 21 minutes ago, SDS said: Been thinking about supply chains a lot. No one is supposed to panic because grocery stores are open, but clearly there’s going to be a time in certain places where the grocery store workers say it’s not worth it. I am not sure how we avoid a panic as it gets worse. Well, issuing the workers gloves and masks and installing plexi shields between checkers and customers would help a lot. They are installing plexi shields in several of the local-to-me Supermarket chains. As of a bit ago, per friend who stocks at Walmart and participates in various retail networking SM, many chains here were actually forbidding workers to wear their own masks and gloves for fear of "alarming the customers". ? At this point, to the contrary of being alarmed, I think the customers all be like "Great! if that guy over there stocking has asymptomatic covid-19, he's not spewing virus particles on my corn flakes! What a good store!" Please Dear God let the Doctors and Nurses and Aides and immunocompromised folks have the N95 masks first - given most of the workers can keep distance from customers, and that checkers can be barriered, any type of masks would help.
Augie Posted March 31, 2020 Posted March 31, 2020 Instacart was another complaining about safety on the news.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 31, 2020 Author Posted March 31, 2020 14 minutes ago, SDS said: If I allowed my ignorant self to speak out loud, I would test concentrating store employees packing the grocery lists themselves and then customers paying online and then picking up. You have to stop 1000 people going into the store and touching everything. A bunch of places do "order online, pick up in store" already - Walmart and Target, for example. There's also Shipt and Instacart, but in some places they're just not available right now (just tried to get one for my kid) Unfortunately from the same retail worker friend, a lot of workers are really frustrated by customers who are plainly out shopping with the kids to "get out of the house". Target and Walmart are still open because they sell items considered essential, like groceries and cleaning supplies and baby stuff. But people are out browsing through the toys and bedding and housewares aisles. 5 minutes ago, Augie said: Instacart was another complaining about safety on the news. Can you say more? What are the workers' concerns?
Figster Posted March 31, 2020 Posted March 31, 2020 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Figster, I do understand that if people don't do things correctly, the results can be unpredictable. I get it. But no, it really does not "boil down to what we as individuals feel is the safest". And I do feel most people can learn. Hospitals and clinics have not gone to the expense of universal precautions in the face of contagious disease because "it's just a matter of individual choice which is safest". Your personal risk from shopping is likely to be fairly low at this point, either way, but if you are someone who has dozens or hundreds of interpersonal interactions per day as in working at a pharmacy, there's a higher risk, and hands vs gloves are not the same. And I hope to heck you don't disagree with me that N95 masks should be prioritized to health care workers or that they are ineffective unless properly fitted and fit-checked. We can learn, but clearly everyone does not reach the same conclusions. China is telling the US right now we are fighting the virus all wrong. We the people are the front lines of this invisible war and without proper protection for everyone our doctors, nurses, supplies and hospitals will never be able to keep up with the spread. Everyone needs the masks...
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