Covid-19 discussion and humor thread [Was: CDC says don't touch your face to avoid Covid19...Vets to the rescue!

[Hapless Bills Fan]

48 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

What upsets me more then anything else about what's going on is how much the government has to babysit us. If people would have followed what was suggested and did social distancing from the beginning and avoided crowds we wouldn't have had to resort to this. If people just stayed home except to go to work or get essentials we would have been better off. Of course people can't help themselves and have to go the beach or the bar. Too many of us didn't take this seriously including me, til they started closing things. 

 

That would have helped, no doubt, @Jrb1979. 

But please understand that containing a pandemic disease where 80% of those who contract it may be infectious without realizing they are ill, requires more than individual effort.  It requires coordinated government action. 

 

Examples:

1) ASAP, meet with diagnostic test companies, departments of health, and major university virology labs.  Ask them to fast-track development of tests within certain parameters; tell them you will fast-track approval of that test once you receive their EUA application (emergency use authorization). 

2) Immediately institute screening and control measures to identify and isolate people entering the country from an area with disease, and ensure quarantine.  This is not a "travel ban" that doesn't apply to US citizens or that only applies to most recent departure point.  It is universal questioning of people about their travel history and further questioning of people who may have been exposed/supported quarantine as necessary (eg take over a hotel and provide meals - don't expect everyone can self quarantine away from family).

3) Screen entering travelers for the most common symptoms and test, regardless of travel history.  Contact trace as necessary (people sitting near on plane)

4) Test everybody with relevant symptoms who tests negative for flu and other viral illnesses.  Contact trace and quarantine.

4) Acquire, control, and evenly distribute PPE to hospitals

5) Direct increased production of PPE and testing supplies.  Divert industries, national guard etc to this

 

Yes, ijits who are partying are part of the problem.  But people who didn't know they are sick and were just trying to go about their business and support their families were also part of the problem, and I'm afraid some degree of government "babysitting" is necessary

 

But usually if 1-4 are done, it never gets to the kind of quarantine/shut down we are seeing.  S. Korea, Taiwan, and Singapore all did these things and are not shut down.

 

Shutting down is a desperation, hail-Mary pass.  You have to do it if you're trailing at the end of the game, but if you score early and shut the other team down there should be no need.

[Cripple Creek]

Not a lot of detail here. Hopefully this isn't widespread.

 

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/03/24/820711855/spanish-military-finds-dead-bodies-and-seniors-completely-abandoned-in-care-home

 

Aaaaaannnnnnddddddd back to school with you. https://www.capitalgazette.com/news/nation-world/ct-nw-liberty-university-jerry-falwell-reopen-20200324-cfnrnswlbzbxzfyp47hqeogaam-story.html

[BringBackFergy]

https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/fda-approves-plasma-treatment-for-coronavirus-under-certain-circumstances-11585090669

 

I believe @Hapless Bills Fan referenced something like this in the other thread (to test for antibodies and T cells and B cells) but this now allows for the use of plasma from Covid + patients who have “recovered” for critically ill Covid patients. FDA approved this pretty fast so perhaps we’ll see some positive news in the coming week(s). 

[aristocrat]

gf took care of virus patient the last two nights. lady doing well i guess. but late last night gets a patient come in with ear infection, sinus, uti, 67 years old.  she's just walking through hospital onto their floor, gets in room and just starts crashing and ends up on breathing machine very quick.  may be virus may not but gf got all dressed up for virus but that lady was going around hospital possibly spreading.  who knows. 

[Cripple Creek]

Ireland nationalizes private hospitals. https://www.thejournal.ie/private-hospitals-ireland-coronavirus-5056334-Mar2020/

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, aristocrat said:

gf took care of virus patient the last two nights. lady doing well i guess. but late last night gets a patient come in with ear infection, sinus, uti, 67 years old.  she's just walking through hospital onto their floor, gets in room and just starts crashing and ends up on breathing machine very quick.  may be virus may not but gf got all dressed up for virus but that lady was going around hospital possibly spreading.  who knows. 

 

First of all bless and keep your GF.  I hope she has all the protective equipment she needs

 

This is a failure of infection control.  Everyone coming in needs to be treated as potentially infected.

 

And we badly need a 15 minute point-of-care test.

[Cripple Creek]

DeSanti$ want$ Florida declared a di$a$ter area.  Hey Ron, why didn't you close the ***** beaches you dickwad?

 

https://www.local10.com/news/local/2020/03/24/gov-ron-desantis-wants-florida-declared-disaster-area/

[aristocrat]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

First of all bless and keep your GF.  I hope she has all the protective equipment she needs

 

This is a failure of infection control.  Everyone coming in needs to be treated as potentially infected.

 

And we badly need a 15 minute point-of-care test.

 

yea that's exactly what she said.  they only got gloved, masked and gowned up cause they decided to and told their next shift to do as well.  glad she comes home this morning but this didn't exactly give me confidence that we wont be all getting it over the next couple days.  our county is on lockdown tomorrow and we got our thermometers ready lol

[Hapless Bills Fan]

25 minutes ago, BringBackFergy said:

https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/fda-approves-plasma-treatment-for-coronavirus-under-certain-circumstances-11585090669

 

I believe @Hapless Bills Fan referenced something like this in the other thread (to test for antibodies and T cells and B cells) but this now allows for the use of plasma from Covid + patients who have “recovered” for critically ill Covid patients. FDA approved this pretty fast so perhaps we’ll see some positive news in the coming week(s). 

 

The article is paywalled for me (I don't subscribe to WSJ). 

 

I was actually talking about something that seems (from the part I could read) a bit different: widespread serology (blood) testing to determine who may have already caught the virus and have immunity, but be negative for the virus itself.  These are the people who can safely care for elderly, ill patients, teach etc. and move about society without spreading the disease. 

 

This is talking about collecting blood from recovered patients and infusing it into sick people to "jump start" their immune systems.  It's an old treatment that was used successfully in other viral outbreaks - SARS, MERS, Ebola etc.

 

This is one of the clinical trials Cuomo announced would start Tues, to see if this is effective vs. covid-19, how much is needed for clinical effect, and at what stage of disease progression (because the supply will be limited, so needs to be used to best effect).

[BringBackFergy]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

The article is paywalled for me (I don't subscribe to WSJ). 

 

I was actually talking about something that seems (from the part I could read) a bit different: widespread serology (blood) testing to determine who may have already caught the virus and have immunity, but be negative for the virus itself.  These are the people who can safely care for elderly, ill patients, teach etc. and move about society without spreading the disease. 

 

This is talking about collecting blood from recovered patients and infusing it into sick people to "jump start" their immune systems.  It's an old treatment that was used successfully in other viral outbreaks - SARS, MERS, Ebola etc.

 

This is one of the clinical trials Cuomo announced would start Tues, to see if this is effective vs. covid-19 and at what stage of disease progression.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1167831

 

Correct. Been used in the past. FDA has now approved this technique for critically ill Covid patients first. 

[Cripple Creek]

More cruise ship woes.  USS Roosevelt has 3 test positive.  Stay safe sailors.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/carlieporterfield/2020/03/24/coronavirus-spreads-on-us-navy-ship-in-pacific-ocean/

[Sundancer]

1 hour ago, Cripple Creek said:

DeSanti$ want$ Florida declared a di$a$ter area.  Hey Ron, why didn't you close the ***** beaches you dickwad?

 

https://www.local10.com/news/local/2020/03/24/gov-ron-desantis-wants-florida-declared-disaster-area/

 

Leaving the decisions to close, distribute resources, test, and track to mayors and governors is ineffective. 

[Cripple Creek]

7 minutes ago, Sundancer said:

 

Leaving the decisions to close, distribute resources, test, and track to mayors and governors is ineffective. 

That leaves us only one choice.

 

 

 

 

For anyone who is wondering whether more people (even a somewhat equal) will die from a depression/recession here's some science.

 

https://www.pnas.org/content/106/41/17290

Edited March 25, 2020 by Cripple Creek

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Bill Gates is exactly correct here IMO:

 

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/bill-gates-slow-economic-recovery-trump-coronavirus-public-health-first-2020-3-1029028597

 

Bill Gates is warning of dire economic consequences should President Trump move ahead and start lifting restrictions on the American economy in the middle of the coronavirus pandemic.

Gates, one of the nation's leading philanthropists, didn't mention Trump by name. But he had a scathing rebuke toward the Trump administration in an interview on TED Tuesday.

"There really is no middle ground, and it's very tough to say to people, 'Hey, keep going to restaurants, go buy new houses, ignore that pile of bodies over in the corner. We want you to keep spending because there's maybe a politician who thinks GDP growth is all that counts,'" Gates said.

 

He went on: "It's very irresponsible for somebody to suggest that we can have the best of both worlds."

Asked what he would do if he were in the president's shoes, Gates said economic concerns would take a backseat to ensuring the health of the public.

 

"The economic effect of this is really dramatic. Nothing like this has ever happened to the economy in our lifetimes," Gates said. "But bringing the economy back ... that's more of a reversible thing than bringing people back to life. So we're going to take the pain in the economic dimension — huge pain — in order to minimize the pain in the diseases-and-death dimension."

 

His point is that it's not a case of "bring the economy back/more people die" vs "take a huge economic hit/less people die".  It's probably more like "take a huge economic hit/more people die" if things are not reopened in a fashion responsible to public health.

 

That means

1) the case count is stable or declining; hospitals have some capacity and extra capacity is being built

2) widespread testing capability is in place

3) widespread contact tracing capability is in place

4) HCW have adequate supplies of PPE

[Hardhatharry]

24 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Bill Gates is exactly correct here IMO:

 

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/bill-gates-slow-economic-recovery-trump-coronavirus-public-health-first-2020-3-1029028597

 

Bill Gates is warning of dire economic consequences should President Trump move ahead and start lifting restrictions on the American economy in the middle of the coronavirus pandemic.

Gates, one of the nation's leading philanthropists, didn't mention Trump by name. But he had a scathing rebuke toward the Trump administration in an interview on TED Tuesday.

"There really is no middle ground, and it's very tough to say to people, 'Hey, keep going to restaurants, go buy new houses, ignore that pile of bodies over in the corner. We want you to keep spending because there's maybe a politician who thinks GDP growth is all that counts,'" Gates said.

 

He went on: "It's very irresponsible for somebody to suggest that we can have the best of both worlds."

Asked what he would do if he were in the president's shoes, Gates said economic concerns would take a backseat to ensuring the health of the public.

 

"The economic effect of this is really dramatic. Nothing like this has ever happened to the economy in our lifetimes," Gates said. "But bringing the economy back ... that's more of a reversible thing than bringing people back to life. So we're going to take the pain in the economic dimension — huge pain — in order to minimize the pain in the diseases-and-death dimension."

 

His point is that it's not a case of "bring the economy back/more people die" vs "take a huge economic hit/less people die".  It's probably more like "take a huge economic hit/more people die" if things are not reopened in a fashion responsible to public health.

 

That means

1) the case count is stable or declining; hospitals have some capacity and extra capacity is being built

2) widespread testing capability is in place

3) widespread contact tracing capability is in place

4) HCW have adequate supplies of PPE

 

As proven the economy will always come back, and that was in times where the technology wasn't where it is now.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 25, 2020 by Hapless Bills Fan
remove stuff about China and cell phones

[Figster]

3 hours ago, Cripple Creek said:

That leaves us only one choice.

 

 

 

 

For anyone who is wondering whether more people (even a somewhat equal) will die from a depression/recession here's some science.

 

https://www.pnas.org/content/106/41/17290

Here's the thing, having worked nuclear in the past I know with proper training and protective gear / precautions taken its possible to perform tasks safely in most work settings.

 

China I think has done a real good job in the fight against covid 19. All you have to do is look at pictures of men and woman going about their business walking in close proximity to one another to understand why.

 

They are all wearing masks. Ever think If the general puplic and essential business workers received the same consideration as health workers when it comes to masks we might do a better job containing the virus? Stop the ones carrying it from spreading and protecting the ones that dont' have it from catching it?

 

Residing in a spread out neighborhood vs an apartment complex or even town house setting I think is playing a big role in the spread of covid 19. NYC by way of example has people stacked on people, stacked on more people. Not good. 

 

Myself personally,  more focus should be put on ways to protect the air that we breath to better prepare ourselves going into the future.

 

 

Edited March 25, 2020 by Figster

[Hardhatharry]

2 hours ago, Cripple Creek said:

That leaves us only one choice.

 

 

 

 

For anyone who is wondering whether more people (even a somewhat equal) will die from a depression/recession here's some science.

 

https://www.pnas.org/content/106/41/17290

This is all from a time when people had no technological resources. Today people have so much technology at their hands it changes everything. This is really not relevant enough in the day and age we live in.

[Sundancer]

The next thing: DKE-19. 

Quote

 

Dunning-Kruger Effect (DKE) is a phenomenon where people lack the ability to understand their lack of ability. While strains of DKE typically circulate seasonally, a new and more virulent strain called DKE-19 is now reaching pandemic proportions.

When you’re done reading this article, this is what you’ll take away:

DKE-19 is coming to you.

It’s coming at an exponential speed: gradually, then suddenly, then suddenlier.

When it does, your feeds will be overwhelmed.

Exhausted fact checkers will break down. Some will die of sadness.

The only way to prevent this is social media distancing. Not tomorrow. Today.

That means vetting sources BEFORE you share, starting now.

 

 

[Cripple Creek]

2 hours ago, Hardhatharry said:

This is all from a time when people had no technological resources. Today people have so much technology at their hands it changes everything. This is really not relevant enough in the day and age we live in.

So, more technology means what, exactly?

 

If life spans have historically risen during times of recession and depression can we not assume that the same is possible today?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 hours ago, Figster said:

Here's the thing, having worked nuclear in the past I know with proper training and protective gear / precautions taken its possible to perform tasks safely in most work settings.

 

China I think has done a real good job in the fight against covid 19. All you have to do is look at pictures of men and woman going about their business walking in close proximity to one another to understand why.

 

They are all wearing masks. Ever think If the general puplic and essential business workers received the same consideration as health workers when it comes to masks we might do a better job containing the virus? Stop the ones carrying it from spreading and protecting the ones that dont' have it from catching it?

 

Residing in a spread out neighborhood vs an apartment complex or even town house setting I think is playing a big role in the spread of covid 19. NYC by way of example has people stacked on people, stacked on more people. Not good. 

 

Myself personally,  more focus should be put on ways to protect the air that we breath to better prepare ourselves going into the future.

 

 

 

@Figster, you raise an interesting point about masks.  For all the talk about hoarding masks, it seems a lot of people aren't using what they've hoarded!

 

There is a big cultural tradition of mask wearing in China and Asia generally!   There is still much more polluted air there, for one thing.

Article about it: https://time.com/5799964/coronavirus-face-mask-asia-us/

 

Over in the Facts Only thread, there are several posts about the different viewpoint on mask-wearing in China, Taiwan, Singapore, Hong Kong, and even Japan - where public health officials encourage people to wear masks and even have distributed paper medical masks in some instances.

Because Taiwan and Singapore diverted industrial resources and even directed their "national guard" equivalents to make masks starting early Feb, there is not a shortage and the pleated paper masks are considered insufficient protection for medical personnel, but helpful for the general population.

 

I think it may be found at the end of the day that mask wearing plays an unheralded role in limiting infection, especially in pre-symptomatic or mildly symptomatic people who are not yet aware they are sick but are shedding virus when they exhale/cough etc.