K-9 Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 Well, as I read this morning’s tweets, there is absolutely no hope for a mass, centralized federal response to the problem. We have adopted the idea that the cure is worse than the problem and people need to get back to work. Doesn’t matter that this is counter to what every medical adviser says. The ears are closed to that advice and have given way to advice from that of economic advisers instead. I’m willing to bet that every one of those advisers has access to the best private medical care available, including ventilators should they or their families need them. 1 1
Figster Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 1 minute ago, K-9 said: Well, as I read this morning’s tweets, there is absolutely no hope for a mass, centralized federal response to the problem. We have adopted the idea that the cure is worse than the problem and people need to get back to work. Doesn’t matter that this is counter to what every medical adviser says. The ears are closed to that advice and have given way to advice from that of economic advisers instead. I’m willing to bet that every one of those advisers has access to the best private medical care available, including ventilators should they or their families need them. Only real way to slow this virus down is through protection and isolation. This country needs to continue the stay at home approach for a minimium of 12 weeks in my humble opinion. 1
Buffalo Bills Fan Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 Italy cases and deaths jumped up again after decline past 2 days. Sadly.For me use a 3 day if they decline 3 days straight. Might be very good. 2
John in Jax Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 12 minutes ago, K-9 said: Well, as I read this morning’s tweets, there is absolutely no hope for a mass, centralized federal response to the problem. We have adopted the idea that the cure is worse than the problem and people need to get back to work. Doesn’t matter that this is counter to what every medical adviser says. The ears are closed to that advice and have given way to advice from that of economic advisers instead. Just as an FYI: I have seen/heard more than one Dr disagree with your bolded text above. It’s going to be a very delicate decision (when to “get back to work”) for sure though. And honestly, there’s nothing we can do about it, other than hope that they make the right decision.
DrDawkinstein Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 1 minute ago, John in Jax said: Just as an FYI: I have seen/heard more than one Dr disagree with your bolded text above. It’s going to be a very delicate decision (when to “get back to work”) for sure though. And honestly, there’s nothing we can do about it, other than hope that they make the right decision. From a school superintendent: “In the end, it will be impossible to know if we overreacted or did too much, but it will be QUITE apparent if we under reacted or did too little.” I'd rather err on the side of public safety, even if that means a few million off of someone's stock portfolio. 2 1
Sundancer Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 4 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: I'd rather err on the side of public safety, even if that means a few million off of someone's stock portfolio. I'm not disagreeing with your position in the first clause at all, but the second is as cavalier and class warfare-ish about the economy as the people saying an early open of the economy is saying you want doctors to die. The economy being closed hurts the bottom earners in the economy WAY WORSE than someone who can afford to knock a million off their portfolio. 1
Figster Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 If you want to use the yearly death totals from the flu virus by way of example then you probably saved thousands more lives through isolation.
DrDawkinstein Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 Just now, Sundancer said: I'm not disagreeing with your position in the first clause at all, but the second is as cavalier and class warfare-ish about the economy as the people saying an early open of the economy is saying you want doctors to die. The economy being closed hurts the bottom earners in the economy WAY WORSE than someone who can afford to knock a million off their portfolio. If all our leadership does is shut it down without any real leadership of supporting those bottom earners, then yes. But we seem to have no problem pulling up Trillions of dollars to stimulate the market, so we should have no issues temporarily providing support and assistance to our working class. 1
Sundancer Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 24 minutes ago, Figster said: This country needs to continue the stay at home approach for a minimium of 12 weeks in my humble opinion. I've been hearing as few as 6 weeks from experts, but only with equipment, testing, and tracking being ready for this to localize and stamp down outbreaks, which are inevitable. Broken record here. 1 1
K-9 Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 16 minutes ago, John in Jax said: Just as an FYI: I have seen/heard more than one Dr disagree with your bolded text above. It’s going to be a very delicate decision (when to “get back to work”) for sure though. And honestly, there’s nothing we can do about it, other than hope that they make the right decision. Are these doctors currently on the federal task force? Please feel free to cite them as I’d be interested. I’ve heard lots of varying “opinions” like the one from Richard A. Epstein, a conservative economist with the Hoover Institution, who claimed there would be only 500 deaths in the US due to the virus (we surpassed that yesterday). He’s not alone with these baseless claims, either. He doesn’t know what he’s talking about, but he’s not alone. And that’s concerning when that’s the line of thinking that seems to be guiding policy options moving forward.
Hardhatharry Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 22 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: From a school superintendent: “In the end, it will be impossible to know if we overreacted or did too much, but it will be QUITE apparent if we under reacted or did too little.” I'd rather err on the side of public safety, even if that means a few million off of someone's stock portfolio. The government isn't allowed to err on the side of public safety b.c it will hurt votes when election comes if people decide "it was no big deal"
K-9 Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 39 minutes ago, Figster said: Only real way to slow this virus down is through protection and isolation. This country needs to continue the stay at home approach for a minimium of 12 weeks in my humble opinion. I can’t say 12 weeks or 12 months, but until we see that curve start flattening as opposed to the near vertical line currently, we need to do exactly as you said; protection and isolation. 25 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: From a school superintendent: “In the end, it will be impossible to know if we overreacted or did too much, but it will be QUITE apparent if we under reacted or did too little.” I'd rather err on the side of public safety, even if that means a few million off of someone's stock portfolio. Erring on the side of public safety is a no brainer. It’s appalling that any other line of thought is being considered. 21 minutes ago, Sundancer said: I'm not disagreeing with your position in the first clause at all, but the second is as cavalier and class warfare-ish about the economy as the people saying an early open of the economy is saying you want doctors to die. The economy being closed hurts the bottom earners in the economy WAY WORSE than someone who can afford to knock a million off their portfolio. Absolutely, the bottom earners will be most impacted as is always the case. But those bottom earners aren’t driving policy that may end up seriously jeopardizing the public safety. 1
Figster Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 8 minutes ago, Sundancer said: I've been hearing as few as 6 weeks from experts, but only with equipment, testing, and tracking being ready for this to localize and stamp down outbreaks, which are inevitable. Broken record here. People moving from hot spots to what the feel are safer surroundings while contagious is inevitable. My aunt and uncle just brought their daughter back back home from NYC. On one hand you want to say its not safe. On the other, can you fault a parent from wanting to protect their children? Even If it kills them? 1 minute ago, K-9 said: I can’t say 12 weeks or 12 months, but until we see that curve start flattening as opposed to the near vertical line currently, we need to do exactly as you said; protection and isolation. How about every essential business has its employeess wearing the proper protection they need to do their job safely. My nephew is in the field today inspecting sprinkler systems in facilities without proper protection.
Sundancer Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 15 minutes ago, K-9 said: Erring on the side of public safety is a no brainer. It’s appalling that any other line of thought is being considered. I don't want to get too political, but there's a balancing that has to happen here in deaths vs economic death. It's grim, but it's real. 1 1
K-9 Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 3 minutes ago, Figster said: People moving from hot spots to what the feel are safer surroundings while contagious is inevitable. My aunt and uncle just brought their daughter back back home from NYC. On one hand you want to say its not safe. On the other, can you fault a parent from wanting to protect their children? Even If it kills them? How about every essential business has its employeess wearing the proper protection they need to do their job safely. My nephew is in the field today inspecting sprinkler systems in facilities without proper protection. I advocate any and all protective measures available for everybody. 4 minutes ago, Sundancer said: I don't want to get too political, but there's a balancing that has to happen here in deaths vs economic death. It's grim, but it's real. Balancing? Right now the scale is so heavy on the one side that attempting to balance that scale just isn’t feasible currently. The economy will recover. Once dead, always dead. 2
Sundancer Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, K-9 said: I advocate any and all protective measures available for everybody. Balancing? Right now the scale is so heavy on the one side that attempting to balance that scale just isn’t feasible currently. I would say that they are even right now and both will continue to add weight. Quote The economy will recover. Not soon, the longer we wait, and the impact of that could be more devastating long term. Quote Once dead, always dead. These are decisions made often by politicians: Death vs economy. We can make fun of politicians all we want but some of their decisions are not easy. I've been clear what I advocate for in this thread. You can't have "all open right now," and you can't have "all closed for 3-6 months." That's a devil's bargain. Edited March 24, 2020 by Sundancer
GoBills808 Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 5 minutes ago, K-9 said: I advocate any and all protective measures available for everybody. Balancing? Right now the scale is so heavy on the one side that attempting to balance that scale just isn’t feasible currently. The economy will recover. Once dead, always dead. I fear the political calculus hinges to a very large degree upon whether the economy can recover sufficiently BY NOVEMBER, hence the push to get 'folks back to work' as soon as possible. And that is the absolute pinnacle of governmental malpractice. 3
K-9 Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 2 minutes ago, Sundancer said: I would say that they are even right now and both will continue to add weight. Not soon, the longer we wait, and the impact of that could be more devastating long term. These are decisions made often by politicians: Death vs economy. We can make fun of politicians all we want but some of their decisions are not easy. I've been clear what I advocate for in this thread. You can't have "all open right now," and you can't have "all closed for 3-6 months." That's a devil's bargain. Wow.
BillsFan4 Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 Just now, GoBills808 said: I fear the political calculus hinges to a very large degree upon whether the economy can recover sufficiently BY NOVEMBER, hence the push to get 'folks back to work' as soon as possible. And that is the absolute pinnacle of governmental malpractice. Absolutely. Any politicians Re-election should never, ever come before Americans health and safety. That’s a great way to lose my vote, because I certainly won’t be voting for any politician who does that and I know an awful lot of people who feel the same way. 1
Warcodered Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 4 minutes ago, Sundancer said: I would say that they are even right now and both will continue to add weight. Not soon, the longer we wait, and the impact of that could be more devastating long term. These are decisions made often by politicians: Death vs economy. We can make fun of politicians all we want but some of their decisions are not easy. I've been clear what I advocate for in this thread. You can't have "all open right now," and you can't have "all closed for 3-6 months." That's a devil's bargain. Somewhere in the middle doesn't default to kind of bad economy and kind of bad health care disaster. There's a great chance it means ***** economy and ***** health care disaster.
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