Hardhatharry Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 1 minute ago, John in Jax said: I saw the 70+ year old Lt Governor of Texas (Dan Patrick....no, not the sports radio talk guy) tonight on TV, and he made a real good case for not having "the cure be more devastating than the disease." He feels that if we let the mass "shelter in place" orders remain in effect for too long, the American way of life as we all know it, may be forever changed in a very negative way. Lol Americans are very good at getting back to "American way of life"
John in Jax Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Hardhatharry said: Lol Americans are very good at getting back to "American way of life" I guess you need to see it (the interview) to fully understand it. Basically though, he thinks that so many businesses will fail, and the economy will go into a full blown depression, that young kids will grow up in a vastly different America than all of us have (well, those 70 & under). Edited March 24, 2020 by John in Jax 1 1
Sundancer Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 2 hours ago, May Day 10 said: possible glimmer of hope in Italy? https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/public-global-health/489062-new-coronavirus-cases-drop-in-italy-for-second-day Good but that’s just the quarantine at work. Quarantine can get it to 0 if everyone complies but this doesn’t solve the problem without huge testing and tracking. 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I would just like to note that reportedly 40% of those hospitalized with severe covid-19 disease and even critical, are age 20-49 And if the hospital systems collapse because they are overloaded, and because inadequately protected HCW are too sick to work, that 40% won't live either And if inadequately protected doctors and nurses die of covid-19, it will cripple our health care system for a generation Carry on... I personally don't think that the markets will respond to anything until there is a coherent national plan to contain the pandemic. But I am not a financial analyst, and that is entirely an unqualified personal opinion. The collapse of the healthcare system dealing with this would have so many other consequences.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 24, 2020 Author Posted March 24, 2020 21 minutes ago, John in Jax said: I saw the 70+ year old Lt Governor of Texas (Dan Patrick....no, not the sports radio talk guy) tonight on TV, and he made a real good case for not having "the cure be more devastating than the disease." He feels that if we let the mass "shelter in place" orders remain in effect for too long, the American way of life as we all know it, may be forever changed in a very negative way. Here. Watch this: What case did he make for overloading the health care system whilst inadequately protected doctors and nurses inevitably fall ill and some die, all ill HCW are unable to care for patients; hospital beds (much less high-concentration oxygen and ventilators) are triaged, and patients in the rural Heartland have nowhere to go for care because, no hospitals much less ICU? Let's not even consider increase in coronary, sepsis, cancer, etc deaths - better schedule your bout with acute appendicitis or your heart attack. Meanwhile we can know that a number of other countries who had exactly the same amount of time to prepare that we did, successfully contained the disease, and other civilized European countries fought hard by every measure to do so. Does he think maybe those things might change the American way of life in a negative way? Or "nah"? Were they mentioned, at all? 2 hours ago, BillsFan4 said: ?♂️ 1 1 1
K-9 Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 31 minutes ago, John in Jax said: I saw the 70+ year old Lt Governor of Texas (Dan Patrick....no, not the sports radio talk guy) tonight on TV, and he made a real good case for not having "the cure be more devastating than the disease." He feels that if we let the mass "shelter in place" orders remain in effect for too long, the American way of life as we all know it, may be forever changed in a very negative way. Did he say what’s “too long?” This F ing virus doesn’t have a time table. Not sure why anyone, let alone elected officials sworn to protect the public, want to impose a time table on it. Makes no F ing sense.
Steptide Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 2 minutes ago, K-9 said: Did he say what’s “too long?” This F ing virus doesn’t have a time table. Not sure why anyone, let alone elected officials sworn to protect the public, want to impose a time table on it. Makes no F ing sense. One word : TAXES. People not working, shopping and traveling equals less taxes and money for the government.
K-9 Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 Just now, Steptide said: One word : TAXES. People not working, shopping and traveling equals less taxes and money for the government. Another word: PRIORITIES. As in peoples’ lives. This is a major setback. We will recover eventually. But that can’t begin to happen in earnest until we see a quantifiable ending to this pandemic.
Steptide Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 1 minute ago, K-9 said: Another word: PRIORITIES. As in peoples’ lives. This is a major setback. We will recover eventually. But that can’t begin to happen in earnest until we see a quantifiable ending to this pandemic. I completely agree with you. I've thought for weeks now the entire country shouldve been on lock down. Unfortunately (see my previous reply) places like my work, which I consider totally non essential are making us work. Locking down a few states won't eliminate the pandemic. We need to shut down the whole thing. This whole thing is a crap show 2
Sundancer Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, John in Jax said: I saw the 70+ year old Lt Governor of Texas (Dan Patrick....no, not the sports radio talk guy) tonight on TV, and he made a real good case for not having "the cure be more devastating than the disease." He feels that if we let the mass "shelter in place" orders remain in effect for too long, the American way of life as we all know it, may be forever changed in a very negative way. Can we at least stay quarantined until our healthcare workers have enough masks, gowns, and tests...as well as a plan to address the tsunami of cases that will come if we lift the ban without testing and Aggressive tracking? They need all the sick buildings ready so patients don’t just walk into every ER where there won’t be enough room. No matter what drug you have, there won’t be enough now. So If you lift the ban (not sure how the admin would do this), you’re telling doctors to go to war against a tank with A bow and no arrows. Forget the deaths for a second. The hospitalization rate for 18-49 year olds is something like 40% of known cases. Those people will not have beds and treatments available, and they will infect their caregivers. All the other people who need doctors won’t get treatment or they will get crappy treatment. My neighbor’s infant daughter who needs open heart surgery in April? Guess she’s ***** because the doctors won’t have time for her. Letting it run its course starting on Friday is not a plan. We don’t have the drugs (even if the anti malarials and zpac’s work). We don’t have the protective equipment. We don’t have one of the most important treatment equipments (ventilators). And we don’t have beds and doctors. The way to thread the needle is with a shut down for long enough to set up massive testing and you set up a plan for tracking every case rigorously, along with all the prep. That will be awful for medical staff and the economy too but at least it’s a plan. Edited March 24, 2020 by Sundancer 1 1
K-9 Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 2 minutes ago, Steptide said: I completely agree with you. I've thought for weeks now the entire country shouldve been on lock down. Unfortunately (see my previous reply) places like my work, which I consider totally non essential are making us work. Locking down a few states won't eliminate the pandemic. We need to shut down the whole thing. This whole thing is a crap show That’s what’s been needed the entire time; a coherent national containment strategy with the full force of the federal governments resources. The federal government is the ONLY entity in the world that is capable of meeting the sheer logistical challenge involved. 1
BillsFan4 Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 Reminds me of this... I’m an epidemiologist. When I heard about Britain’s ‘herd immunity’ coronavirus plan, I thought it was satire ?
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 24, 2020 Author Posted March 24, 2020 1 hour ago, John in Jax said: I saw the 70+ year old Lt Governor of Texas (Dan Patrick....no, not the sports radio talk guy) tonight on TV, and he made a real good case for not having "the cure be more devastating than the disease." He feels that if we let the mass "shelter in place" orders remain in effect for too long, the American way of life as we all know it, may be forever changed in a very negative way. Perhaps someone should share this linke with Dan Patrick and with the Governor of Texas: Here's Texas:
BillsFan4 Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 (edited) Says: ”What I'm living in fear of is what's happening to this country…‘Are you willing to take a chance on your survival in exchange for keeping the America that all America loves for your children and grandchildren?' And if that's the exchange I'm all in" ————— What about our healthcare workers who will have no choice? Or all the high risk Americans that don’t want to needlessly put their lives at risk? What if entire police forces or fire departments get sick? Or too many doctors and nurses? What if it totally overwhelms our hospitals and a lot more than just the elderly needlessly die? What happens to people that get in accidents or have other non-covid-19 health crises if our hospitals are overrun? What if we do this and it brings this country past the point of no return and we start seeing 700+ deaths a day like in Italy? Or worse? We already currently have one of the highest rates of covid-19 increase in the world right now. Getting a bunch more people sick is not really something I think we should be doing. I’m not sure that “sacrifice” at all helps this situation. What if so many get sick that it shuts down the economy even worse and for far longer? and this completely ignores the hospitalization rates of younger people. Around the world, 2-4 out of every 100 people who get this are dying. I know I’ll be pissed if my family’s life is needlessly put at risk because of poor choices (that directly contradict the experts) made by others. We need an aggressive national plan. This doesn’t have to be an either/or choice, and IMO the economy requires suppressing the virus. Some of these people are going to follow their leaders right off a cliff. There’s a reason why no infectious disease experts are recommending this plan (or any experts at all, that I’m aware of). Edit - here is the full interview: https://twitter.com/riegerreport/status/1242249603413655552?s=21 Trump: “You look at automobile accidents. Which are far greater than any numbers we're talking about. That doesn't mean we're going to tell everybody no more driving of cars." "If it were up to the doctors, they may say .. let's shut down the entire world." Edited March 24, 2020 by BillsFan4 1
GoBills808 Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 10 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said: Says: ”What I'm living in fear of is what's happening to this country…‘Are you willing to take a chance on your survival in exchange for keeping the America that all America loves for your children and grandchildren?' And if that's the exchange I'm all in" LMFAO at this He wants everyone to get back to doing what has now crashed our country's economy twice in my wage-earning adult life? And PROLONG the disease that's partially responsible? Stay the ***** home you idiot. The working class of this country will clean up your mess as per usual. 1 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 24, 2020 Author Posted March 24, 2020 15 hours ago, BillsFan4 said: Says: ”What I'm living in fear of is what's happening to this country…‘Are you willing to take a chance on your survival in exchange for keeping the America that all America loves for your children and grandchildren?' And if that's the exchange I'm all in" Except, of course, that's not the exchange. What exactly does he mean by "I'm going to do everything he can do to live"? 40% of those hospitalized with covid-19 are age 20-49. The majority of them recover, IF they get good medical care. Does "Are you willing to take a chance on your own survival" mean that as Lt Governor, he's going to sign a document forgoing his chance at a ventilator or high-flow oxygen so that someone else's child or grandchild age 20-49 will get a space in a hospital? Or does "I'm going to do everything I can to live" means he will exercise the privilege of his wealth and position to command the very best care still available for himself and his family and Hell With You and Yours? Historically, that's the way it flows..... What about doctors and nurses? They are working without even the minimum standard of N95 masks (which are not enough) in some places. Cayuga Medical Center is calling for volunteers to meet in a deserted Cornell building (everybody at least 6 feet apart) to make improvised masks out of surgical blankets for their staff. I wish I were kidding. Doctors and nurses and EMS are special special people....but is it in any way civilized to ask them to face contagious disease that is 20% serious or critical, in 2020 where effective protective equipment exists, WITHOUT that equipment? Is that what "the America that all America loves" means to him? If "all in" meant he accepts that risk for himself, and it just falls on him and people like him who accept the risk... OK... But it doesn't. And here's the thing...not everyone is going to buy his particular brand of epidemiological toe funk. States and leaders with more compassion and more understanding of just what a Hell an overloaded health care system is like, will stay out to continue to try to "flatten the curve". So he won't get what he wants - the preservation of his stock portfolio? - anyway, just as those of us who want an effective total shut down so testing and contact tracing and PPE for the health care workers and triage and beds can be put in place, won't get what we want if he and Trump get their way. 1 2
BillsFan4 Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 (edited) Link to CDC report: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6912e3.htm Well, ****. That’s not good. Edit - apparently there’s some debate if this is true. I thought since it came from the CDC’s it was, but I guess some are saying this is not possible. So...? Edited March 24, 2020 by BillsFan4
BillsFan4 Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 (edited) ? I don’t know what he’s saying but listening to him labor to breath is scary. True hero. RIP. Edited March 24, 2020 by BillsFan4 1 1 1
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