Augie Posted July 18, 2020 Posted July 18, 2020 1 minute ago, LB3 said: Numbers have to go up. Fear is necessary in this. If fear leads to rational behavior, it may actually be helpful. I’m sorry that that may in fact be true. I’m not taking sides, I’m just sad people can’t be smart without a gun to their head.
LB3 Posted July 18, 2020 Posted July 18, 2020 Just now, Augie said: If fear leads to rational behavior, it may actually be helpful. I’m sorry that that may in fact be true. I’m not taking sides, I’m just sad people can’t be smart without a gun to their head. I respect you more than most posters on this site. You're a good person. I'm jaded by this. Best wishes to you and yours. 1
BillsFan4 Posted July 18, 2020 Posted July 18, 2020 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Augie said: My 27 year old son tells me 3 or 4 of his friends signed up for testing for various reasons, they had been traveling or whatnot. These 3-4 guys waited in long lines in Florida, then gave up and never got tested. They later got notices that they had tested positive. I have no idea what to make of any of this...... ?♂️ How did they have their contact info if they didn’t get the test done? Did they have to give their contact info just to get in line? My brother in law got tested and he didn’t give all his info until he took the test, but this wasn’t in Florida, though it sound alike they have a similar process: Quote Brooke Liddle, the spokesman for American Medical Response, which administers testing at Holiday Park in Fort Lauderdale and three other South Florida locations, says paperwork with a test taker’s information (email or phone number) is filled out just before the test is administered. I did read about a bogus rumor going around social media claiming positive test results in Florida without taking the test (not saying your son is a liar or anything). https://www.sun-sentinel.com/coronavirus/fl-ne-covid-positive-test-hoax-20200713-xk3aueospjef7dffzazn4zm5ky-story.html Edited July 18, 2020 by BillsFan4
Saxum Posted July 19, 2020 Posted July 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Augie said: My 27 year old son tells me 3 or 4 of his friends signed up for testing for various reasons, they had been traveling or whatnot. These 3-4 guys waited in long lines in Florida, then gave up and never got tested. They later got notices that they had tested positive. I have no idea what to make of any of this...... ?♂️ Everyone in line got the covid-19 via air because Florida's leader thinks it is way to immunize the herd? 1 hour ago, BillsFan4 said: How did they have their contact info if they didn’t get the test done? Did they have to give their contact info just to get in line? My brother in law got tested and he didn’t give all his info until he took the test, but this wasn’t in Florida, though it sound alike they have a similar process: Usually (in VA) you need to call ahead and provide information before you can take a test. This is way it always is for my daughter.
The Dean Posted July 19, 2020 Posted July 19, 2020 27 minutes ago, Limeaid said: Usually (in VA) you need to call ahead and provide information before you can take a test. This is way it always is for my daughter. Florida has some drive up locations where you do not need to make an appointment. You may have to wait in line (in your car) for quite awhile, though. I'm getting blood work done later this week. Going to see if I can throw a Covid test, and antibody test, on top of it. Hopefully it doesn't break the bank.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted July 19, 2020 Author Posted July 19, 2020 6 hours ago, Figster said: Yes, I'm wearing the oil-protective short lifespan R95 with replacement filters. Expensive, and well worth it in my humble opinion. It does the job and doesn't take away from health professionals that need the N95. Fair 6 hours ago, Figster said: This is not the facts only thread and just because we have a difference of opinion does not mean I'm trolling you. I speak from experience working in an enviroment where airborne particulates are prevalent. Particulates are not droplets and aerosols. Honest. They have different physical properties. Honest. That makes them behave differently in the air. Honest. I appreciate your assurance that you're not trolling. When you failed to respond to the points I made about why publishing people's names and addresses would have a negligable effect on contact tracing while just reiterating the same thing ....I won't lie, I did have a "Skydiver" flashback. 6 hours ago, Figster said: Contact tracing here in the US is not doing enough and I touched on some of the reasons why. I agree completely that contact tracing in the US is not doing enough, but I doubt the reasons you suggest - people lying to contact tracers or giving false contacts to "get back" at the person they name is a significant reason why. The overwhelming major reason why contact tracing is not working right now, and the thing that must be fixed before contact tracing can possibly work, is TESTING. Labcorp and Quest, nationwide, are running 6-10 days behind on turn around. In many states, that's uniformly true of all testing sources (DPH, hospitals, clinics) except for Priority 1 samples***. My friend developed symptoms on Weds, just got a test this am. Expect results by next Fri-Mon. Contact tracing simply can not work with that kind of testing delay and results delay. Can't. Zero chance, no matter what you do and how you do it. Hopefully we can agree there! *** Priority 1 samples are Healthcare workers, Hospitalized patients, and patients scheduled for medical procedures. 2 minutes ago, The Dean said: Florida has some drive up locations where you do not need to make an appointment. You may have to wait in line (in your car) for quite awhile, though. I'm getting blood work done later this week. Going to see if I can throw a Covid test, and antibody test, on top of it. Hopefully it doesn't break the bank. Heh. In MO right now, you can make an appointment AND wait in line in your car for hours. 1
Saxum Posted July 19, 2020 Posted July 19, 2020 Just now, The Dean said: Florida has some drive up locations where you do not need to make an appointment. You may have to wait in line (in your car) for quite awhile, though. I'm getting blood work done later this week. Going to see if I can throw a Covid test, and antibody test, on top of it. Hopefully it doesn't break the bank. For one clinic in Northern VA they require you to have an app on your cell phone, scan something on site and wait in car before you can go in. Since many elderly (and me) do not have such capability I called after being on hold for an hour and disconnected I asked for alternate and quoted requirement to serve handicapped. They deliberately hung up. Fortunately I had alternate place I could take my daughter to but not all have that option. Some do not even have cars to wait in.
Augie Posted July 19, 2020 Posted July 19, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, BillsFan4 said: How did they have their contact info if they didn’t get the test done? Did they have to give their contact info just to get in line? My brother in law got tested and he didn’t give all his info until he took the test, but this wasn’t in Florida, though it sound alike they have a similar process: I did read about a bogus rumor going around social media claiming positive test results in Florida without taking the test (not saying your son is a liar or anything). https://www.sun-sentinel.com/coronavirus/fl-ne-covid-positive-test-hoax-20200713-xk3aueospjef7dffzazn4zm5ky-story.html My son gave me specific names of friends in Florida, including a college roommate, who reported having to sign up on line the day before going in. They never made it to get tested as the line was too long and slow, but they got positive results. Multiple people, independent reports. He did the same sign up thing on-line in Georgia, but never got tested and never got a response. My friend’s 26 year old son had to do the same thing in Georgia, sign up on line in advance, with signup for the next day beginning at midnight. My son showed me some sites reporting 100% positive rates in Florida testing. I don’t believe anyone anymore, unfortunately. EDIT: they are a handful of guys in their 20’s who have no appetite for challenging this. If they couldn’t wait in line, they are unlikely to challenge a prolonged battle to prove they were wronged. Close friends, guys in his upcoming wedding. Independent reports. I trust science to a degree, but it’s only as good as the people behind it. I get this could be bogus reports. Same with much of the people behind the science. My point is not one side or the other, my point is I never know what to believe. . . Edited July 19, 2020 by Augie 2
Hapless Bills Fan Posted July 19, 2020 Author Posted July 19, 2020 2 hours ago, Augie said: My 27 year old son tells me 3 or 4 of his friends signed up for testing for various reasons, they had been traveling or whatnot. These 3-4 guys waited in long lines in Florida, then gave up and never got tested. They later got notices that they had tested positive. I have no idea what to make of any of this...... ?♂️ Perhaps it happened - mistakes do happen. But every positive test result has a test report that came out of an RT-PCR machine behind it, and if there's no SARS-CoV2 RNA in the sample 'cuz no one got swabbed, it ain't gonna read positive. There's a chap here in MO, regular dude with a job and a new baby living in SW MO, who started collating data on his own by using public sources. Posts it on Facebook. He typically finds many more cases/day than the State website reports - again, by collating official publically available sources. Along the way, people started talking to him and he learned that the State DHSS employees are working overtime and still about 7,000-10,000 cases behind in entering data so that it will show up on the State DHSS dashboard. Eventually the State catches up and the numbers match pretty well. (why they have to enter data is another story involving FAX machines and HIPPA). One of the things MO chap routinely gets is "my (insert relative)'s boyfriend's neighbor's parrot walker knows for a fact that they're failing to count negative results (or double counting positive results). Without verifiable facts - time, date, testsite, state, agency involved - what I think is it's baloney. Your son should advise his friends to contact the state testing agency immediately and give them their names, contact info, time and place where they signed up for a test, time and place where they gave up, time and date when they were called informing them of a positive result so that this fraud can be immediately corrected, if that's actually what happened. And if you follow up with the details above and information about what happened when they tried to report a problem, I will personally start and pin a thread apologizing to you. But otherwise, it's one of these "girlfriend's neighbor's boyfriend's Parrot Walker knows for a fact...." things, far as I'm concerned. I know this. I can google search "covid testing problem" and find Breitbart and Fox and Infowars reporting dozens of such claims. Meanwhile, in any organization I've worked in, it's like herding freakin' cats to get 15 people who work together to work towards the same end, much less some nationwide conspiracy to make stuff look worse than it is.. What my boots on the ground see - what friends I know who are symptomatic are experiencing in MO - is that far from over-reporting testing results, testing is overwhelmed, delays in obtaining a test are so long and delays in obtaining results are so long that a large number of sick people with relevant symptoms are simply not getting tested. When you got 103 fever and are so fatigued you can barely drag your butt 10 feet to the loo, who wants to drive 40 miles to a test site to wait in a car for 2 hrs? Stands to reason. The reason there are such long delays, is that people here are symptomatic and they really want to be tested. There's also negative feedback loops: longer wait for test availability -> long test processing/reporting delays -> symptomatic people don't bother to get tested -> their contacts don't get traced and tested Meanwhile % positives held low by screening HCW and healthy patients due for procedures and reporting their results promptly. 19 minutes ago, Augie said: My son showed me some sites reporting 100% positive rates in Florida testing. I don’t believe anyone anymore, unfortunately. Links to those sites, please? Thank you. 19 minutes ago, Augie said: My son gave me specific names of friends in Florida, including a college roommate, who reported having to sign up on line the day before going in. They never made it to get tested as the line was too long and slow, but they got positive results. Multiple people, independent reports. OK, fine. When? Where? Time? Testing organization? Details. Bite the snake. Prove it's not rumor-mongering. See offer above.
Biden is Mentally Fit Posted July 19, 2020 Posted July 19, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Links to those sites, please? Thank you. OK, fine. When? Where? Time? Testing organization? Details. Bite the snake. Prove it's not rumor-mongering. See offer https://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/20200716/florida-reported-100-positive-covid-19-tests-from-some-labs-thats-wrong-hospital-system-says https://cbs12.com/news/coronavirus/dozens-of-florida-labs-still-report-only-positive-covid-tests-skewing-positivity-rate Edited July 19, 2020 by JDHillFan Added link 1
BillsFan4 Posted July 19, 2020 Posted July 19, 2020 (edited) 46 minutes ago, JDHillFan said: https://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/20200716/florida-reported-100-positive-covid-19-tests-from-some-labs-thats-wrong-hospital-system-says https://cbs12.com/news/coronavirus/dozens-of-florida-labs-still-report-only-positive-covid-tests-skewing-positivity-rate Quote In recent days, the Florida Department of Health noticed that some smaller, private labs weren’t reporting negative test result data to the state. The Department immediately began working with those labs to ensure that all results were being reported in order to provide comprehensive and transparent data.” So it sounds like it’s not that they were reporting false positive tests. They just weren’t reporting the negative test results. If that’s the case that only changes the positive/negative test percentages, not the total number of positive tests for covid reported for that day. The number of people who tested positive will still be the same even if we know the number of people who tested negative that day. Obviously It’s wrong to say that 100% of the tests were positive, or 100% negative (which has also happened in Florida). But the actual number of positive tests would still be correct (unless they’re being reported more than once). It also sounds like it was limited to a number of small labs. Quote While it seems a statistical improbability, the state’s reports have shown all-negative and all-positive test results from labs since it began releasing comprehensive daily coronavirus summaries in mid-March. Quote Little said the state report only reflects tests done by Lee Health labs and not the results of thousands of samples taken by its mobile sites that are then sent to private labs for testing. Quote Lee Health labs have processed a total of 29,557 tests. Of those, 5,351 have been positive and 24,206 have been negative, for a positivity rate of 18.1%. Yesterday, we processed 638 tests. Of those, 182 were positive and 446 were negative, for a positivity rate of 28.5%.” By comparison, the state of Florida has done almost 3 million total covid tests. They have over 300k positive test results in total. https://floridahealthcovid19.gov I don’t think there’s any doubt that Florida is in the middle of an outbreak. https://www.npr.org/2020/07/13/890558022/spike-in-coronavirus-cases-overwhelms-intensive-care-units-at-florida-hospitals Quote NPR's Ailsa Chang talks with Dr. David J. De La Zerda, director of the medical intensive care unit at Jackson Memorial Hospital, about the surge in coronavirus patients at Florida's hospitals. Quote CHANG: So tell me - how is your hospital currently handling this surge? I mean, were you at all prepared for these numbers? DE LA ZERDA: I mean, we didn't expect this to be so rapidly increasing number of cases. So yeah, we are preparing in the sense, like, we are trying to change some of our ICUs that were not being used as COVID; now we will be transporting to COVID units. So it's not like we had 100 beds ready to be used for COVID patients; it's we have to move these patients that were non-COVID patients to a different facility so we can accommodate more COVID patients. CHANG: So as you are moving patients around to different ICU units to free up beds, I mean, are you confident at this point that you will have enough beds and enough trained staff for those beds to handle this new influx of patients? DE LA ZERDA: I am really worried. If we continue to see the influx we've seen in the last few days, we are going to reach our capacity by the end of the week. CHANG: Wow. So what kind of help would you like to see from either the state government or the federal government at this point to help you with that capacity? DE LA ZERDA: The things that we're seeing right now is one issue is the staff, especially nurses, are tired, and they are just burnt out. So we are getting 100 nurses, hopefully, in the next week. We already got 30 of those 100 nurses. We are going to need more nurses for sure. For the physicians, what we're trying to do is following similar models that they did in New York, meaning that we're getting more help from our colleagues, like dermatologists, urologists, and other colleagues are actually coming to the hospital and trying to help out. And then at the end, you know, it's the Convention Center in Miami Beach is now - there are hospital beds. So I think we'll be transferring patients soon. CHANG: And these patients that you're seeing in the ICUs today, are you noticing any differences from the COVID patients you were seeing just two months ago? DE LA ZERDA: Yes. They're younger patients - age last time was probably around 65. Now it's - our average age is between 25 to 35, 45 years old. https://www.sun-sentinel.com/coronavirus/fl-ne-coronavirus-icu-bed-reporting-rules-change-20200623-dmf4p5nf3few5mvjvh53vixewm-story.html As hospitals fill with coronavirus patients, Florida wants to know who is in the ICU beds https://www.wtsp.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/how-florida-is-allocating-nurses-covid-19-drugs-amid-strained-supply/67-90b7c310-544b-48d3-9129-05014829dea5 How Florida is allocating nurses, COVID-19 drugs amid strained supply (they called in hundreds of extra nurses and had to get extra covid drugs from NY state and the federal govt. to keep up with demand) Edited July 19, 2020 by BillsFan4 1
BillsFan4 Posted July 19, 2020 Posted July 19, 2020 Updated as of yesterday:https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/testing/states-comparison It’s not just more testing that’s causing spiking numbers in certain states either. Florida is 19th in testing in the US. Arizona is 36th Texas is 41st New York is 1st.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted July 19, 2020 Author Posted July 19, 2020 2 hours ago, BillsFan4 said: So it sounds like it’s not that they were reporting false positive tests. They just weren’t reporting the negative test results. If that’s the case that only changes the positive/negative test percentages, not the total number of positive tests for covid reported for that day. The number of people who tested positive will still be the same even if we know the number of people who tested negative that day. Obviously It’s wrong to say that 100% of the tests were positive, or 100% negative (which has also happened in Florida). But the actual number of positive tests would still be correct (unless they’re being reported more than once). It also sounds like it was limited to a number of small labs. I did my own search, and it looks as though the situation is more complicated than that. Several large hospital chains are listed as 100% positive tests. The State is pointing the finger at the labs, but the labs (smaller labs, but also this large hospital associated one, Lee lab) say they have been accurately reporting both positive AND negative results: "We are aware of a report by the Florida Department of Health that shows 100% of Lee Memorial Hospital Lab COVID-19 tests were reported as positive," Lee Health spokesman Jonathon Little said in a statement Wednesday. "For the health and safety of our community, we have prioritized transparency throughout this pandemic. We have been accurately reporting our positive and negative test results to the Florida Department of Health, and we are working with the department to resolve this discrepancy." So it's unclear what's going on. Traditionally, only positive results for reportable disease are communicated. One wonders if the surge in cases has caused new people to be brought on board (or previous employees to be re-enlisted) who somehow have retained that previous training, and are only entering the positive cases? The Florida % positive tests statistic is clearly screwy, and should be disregarded until Florida DOH gets its act together (either in clarifying what should be reported to its reporter hospitals and labs, or in properly collated what is reported). Maybe they aren't seeing 20% positive tests; maybe they're seeing 10%, or 12%, or 5%. None of this should be allowed to cloud the point that Florida is seeing record surges in covid-19 cases. If Missouri DHSS is overwhelmed with 1,000 cases/day, I would guess perhaps Florida DOH is seriously overwhelmed with >12,000. 3 hours ago, JDHillFan said: https://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/20200716/florida-reported-100-positive-covid-19-tests-from-some-labs-thats-wrong-hospital-system-says https://cbs12.com/news/coronavirus/dozens-of-florida-labs-still-report-only-positive-covid-tests-skewing-positivity-rate Thanks! Though apparently the labs are disputing that they are only reporting positive covid tests. So I think all we can say at this point is that the % positive data from Fl is screwy. Which is a Good Thing, because 20-25% positives is NY-in-March, when NYC was only testing patients sick enough for immediate hospital admittance. One would hope the testing is still doing better, at this point. Hopefully they get it sorted soon. 2
plenzmd1 Posted July 19, 2020 Posted July 19, 2020 14 hours ago, Augie said: My 27 year old son tells me 3 or 4 of his friends signed up for testing for various reasons, they had been traveling or whatnot. These 3-4 guys waited in long lines in Florida, then gave up and never got tested. They later got notices that they had tested positive. I have no idea what to make of any of this...... ?♂️ Hey Augie, my radar went up on this story yesterday... Friday night a friend of my daughter told me the exact story at dinner, and then heard the exact same story again last night from a bartender at golf course. And i do mean exact same story. My guess is it will be proven that this prolly did happen somewhere, but has now taken over the social media of people under 30. But like you, so hard to know what to believe and what is agenda driven. 1
Figster Posted July 19, 2020 Posted July 19, 2020 12 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I did my own search, and it looks as though the situation is more complicated than that. Several large hospital chains are listed as 100% positive tests. The State is pointing the finger at the labs, but the labs (smaller labs, but also this large hospital associated one, Lee lab) say they have been accurately reporting both positive AND negative results: "We are aware of a report by the Florida Department of Health that shows 100% of Lee Memorial Hospital Lab COVID-19 tests were reported as positive," Lee Health spokesman Jonathon Little said in a statement Wednesday. "For the health and safety of our community, we have prioritized transparency throughout this pandemic. We have been accurately reporting our positive and negative test results to the Florida Department of Health, and we are working with the department to resolve this discrepancy." So it's unclear what's going on. Traditionally, only positive results for reportable disease are communicated. One wonders if the surge in cases has caused new people to be brought on board (or previous employees to be re-enlisted) who somehow have retained that previous training, and are only entering the positive cases? The Florida % positive tests statistic is clearly screwy, and should be disregarded until Florida DOH gets its act together (either in clarifying what should be reported to its reporter hospitals and labs, or in properly collated what is reported). Maybe they aren't seeing 20% positive tests; maybe they're seeing 10%, or 12%, or 5%. None of this should be allowed to cloud the point that Florida is seeing record surges in covid-19 cases. If Missouri DHSS is overwhelmed with 1,000 cases/day, I would guess perhaps Florida DOH is seriously overwhelmed with >12,000. Thanks! Though apparently the labs are disputing that they are only reporting positive covid tests. So I think all we can say at this point is that the % positive data from Fl is screwy. Which is a Good Thing, because 20-25% positives is NY-in-March, when NYC was only testing patients sick enough for immediate hospital admittance. One would hope the testing is still doing better, at this point. Hopefully they get it sorted soon. I think you may have hit the nail on the head with your possible explanation on how this could happen. 1
KD in CA Posted July 20, 2020 Posted July 20, 2020 On 7/18/2020 at 7:59 PM, BillsFan4 said: Updated as of yesterday:https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/testing/states-comparison It’s not just more testing that’s causing spiking numbers in certain states either. Florida is 19th in testing in the US. Arizona is 36th Texas is 41st New York is 1st. States spiked at different times.....started w/ NY and the northeast, now it's moved south. That was always going to happen, so not sure why people are acting like a spike in FL is so different than a spike in NY. The real question is what happens after every state/metropolis has come out the other side of their spike. Herd immunity or do specific areas start seeing a second spike? The later is the thing that would be most worrisome.....of course we're being warned about a second wave but as far as I've heard or noticed from the stats, that's not happening anywhere (at least yet).
BillsFan4 Posted July 20, 2020 Posted July 20, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, KD in CA said: States spiked at different times.....started w/ NY and the northeast, now it's moved south. That was always going to happen, so not sure why people are acting like a spike in FL is so different than a spike in NY. The real question is what happens after every state/metropolis has come out the other side of their spike. Herd immunity or do specific areas start seeing a second spike? The later is the thing that would be most worrisome.....of course we're being warned about a second wave but as far as I've heard or noticed from the stats, that's not happening anywhere (at least yet). Florida already had to shut down once a few months ago to get an outbreak under control. 30 day stay at home order, issued April 1st: https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2020/04/01/coronavirus-florida-governor-issues-statewide-30-day-stay-at-home-order/ timeline of covid in Florida: https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2020/03/20/timeline-the-spread-of-coronavirus-in-florida/ 6000 cases on March 31st. Over 12,000 by April 5th. Over 21,000 positive cases by April 13th (almost double in 8 days. Starting to find thousand+ new cases every day). Over 26,000 by April 19th. Over 29,000 by April 23rd and 1000+ deaths. 37,000 by May 4th. Then they started opening again in mid May, with bars, tattoo shops (etc) and some theme parks opening in early-mid June. I don’t know if I’d call it a second spike or just a continuation of their first wave? Edited July 20, 2020 by BillsFan4
Figster Posted July 20, 2020 Posted July 20, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, KD in CA said: States spiked at different times.....started w/ NY and the northeast, now it's moved south. That was always going to happen, so not sure why people are acting like a spike in FL is so different than a spike in NY. The real question is what happens after every state/metropolis has come out the other side of their spike. Herd immunity or do specific areas start seeing a second spike? The later is the thing that would be most worrisome.....of course we're being warned about a second wave but as far as I've heard or noticed from the stats, that's not happening anywhere (at least yet). To achieve herd immunity without a vaccine unfortunately almost half the population would need to test positive with Covid 19 for a chance of this to happen. By way of example the state of NY would need approx 3.5 million people. https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200626/herd-immunity-threshold-could-be-as-low-as-43-percent Edited July 20, 2020 by Figster
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