BillsFan4 Posted July 17, 2020 Posted July 17, 2020 (edited) 40 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: Just heading to the course , so short. But NYC absolutely needed them by all accounts. Texas is not NYC My implication was only that the delay of funerals is a contributing factor for the need in Texas good discussion, we need of them! Yeah, it’s partly a delay in funerals. But what is the cause of that delay? Texas is still allowing funerals. They’re just limiting the number of people able to attend. From June: https://www.kxan.com/news/coronavirus/funeral-homes-still-adapting-to-covid-19-restrictions/ What is the reason for needing these refrigerated trucks over 4 months into the pandemic hitting their state (1st case in Texas was March 4th)? I think many of these hospitals and funeral homes aren’t really set up to process the number of deaths happening right now. It’s not like Texas hasn’t been dealing with covid deaths for months now. from April: https://apps.texastribune.org/features/2020/texas-coronavirus-cases-map/ over 290,000 cases and 3500+ deaths in April. But covid hospitalizations in Texas has increased dramatically in June and July. Edited July 17, 2020 by BillsFan4
K-9 Posted July 17, 2020 Posted July 17, 2020 8 minutes ago, Limeaid said: Former game show host deactivates Twitter account after his son contracts Covid-1 https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/16/us/chuck-woolery-son-covid-19/index.html I will not say he deserved it but I will say roasted on his own petard. What’s the difference between not actually calling it a hoax and saying everybody, including the CDC, is lying about it? Chuck Woolery is a piece of work. Not surprised that cowardly little Biotch deleted his twitter account.
GottaRun Posted July 17, 2020 Posted July 17, 2020 (edited) Didn't see this posted - UAE Says sniffer dogs detect Covid-19 with 92% accuracy. Be easier to have larger events with a trained team of dogs clearing everyone before entry. Would take the stress level down a notch too. No swabs, no temp check, hey look at the doggie. "The UAE has reported early success in using dogs to detect people infected with Covid-19 and plans to deploy specially trained canine teams at airports as it seeks to reopen as a regional travel hub. Trials of police sniffer dogs “achieved approximately 92 per cent in overall accuracy” in identifying samples of the coronavirus, the country’s interior ministry said last week, adding that its research was leading the field globally." Edited July 17, 2020 by driddles 1
Figster Posted July 17, 2020 Posted July 17, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, GoBills808 said: Here's a primer on contact tracing (you'll note there is a confidentiality aspect- no names are included as part of the traceback): https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/daily-life-coping/contact-tracing.html Also estimated only 40% of symptomatic COVID-19 case contacts need to be identified and quarantined to manage spread, your examples are unlikely to constitute >60% of a symptomatic person's contacts: https://www.statnews.com/2020/05/29/contact-tracing-can-it-help-avoid-more-lockdowns/ I'm not suggesting we stop contact tracing altogether.( It helps ) Simply pointing out why contact tracing by itself leaves to many holes. Names and places have to be given for the tracing to take place. Are we looking to manage the spread or stop it? (40%) Question, If you don't mind my asking? Does it look like we are managing the spread of Covid 19 properly here in the US? Anyone? Edited July 17, 2020 by Figster
The Dean Posted July 17, 2020 Posted July 17, 2020 3 hours ago, Figster said: Contact tracing is a flawed method in the fight against Covid 19 in my humble opinion. For the simple fact that you have to many people reluctant to share their activities for various reason. Will a married man give out the name/s of his mistress/s? Same goes for the mistress. Will a drug dealer give out the names of his customers? Will a working man divulge in his whereabouts while he's spending time at the lake with his buddies fishing when he's supposed to be at work? Probably not.( just a few examples) Regardless of how much coaxing a contact tracer uses to many gaps will occur to do a good job overall IMO. I realize it may create a security risk in some instances. In my opinion the names and addresses of people infected should be readily available to the public so everyone who may have come into contact with Covid 19 can find out for themselves. If my neighbor has Covid 19 it would be good to know so I can take extra precautionary measures. The same goes in apartments whrere shared stairways or elevators might be used. Thoughts anyone? 2 hours ago, Figster said: I'm not suggesting we stop contact tracing altogether.( It helps ) Simply pointing out why contact tracing by itself leaves to many holes. Names and places have to be given for the tracing to take place. Are we looking to manage the spread or stop it? (40%) Question, If you don't mind my asking? Does it look like we are managing the spread of Covid 19 properly here in the US? Anyone? Virtually nothing is 100% effective. Yes, people will lie or not be completely truthful. And there are mayors and governors who won't mandate masks because they worry about enforcement. Yet those cities/states still have jaywalking laws on the books. Many have laws against smoking pot. These laws are VERY' hard to enforce, but they are still on the books. And, when the police choose to, they enforce these laws. Truth seems to be, when it's a LAW most people tend to comply. It seems to me compliance drops significantly when it's just a "suggestion". I don't have any data to support that at the moment unfortunately. But just look at the behavior ( and the infection rate) when things went from totally locked down to more open but "we recommend you try to be good". It's a freaking disaster here in Florida. BTW, it also helps businesses who want to enforce a policy to be able to say "it's the law!" With that said, you make a good point. Fortunately there are social pressures that will help with contact tracing. If you won't comply your wife, brother, friend might be very cooperative in reconstructing your contacts. 1
Warcodered Posted July 17, 2020 Posted July 17, 2020 White House blocks CDC from testifying on reopening schools next week https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/17/politics/white-house-cdc-house-testimony-schools/index.html
Hapless Bills Fan Posted July 18, 2020 Author Posted July 18, 2020 8 hours ago, plenzmd1 said: wonder why they did not need trucks during this flu season..where 11,000 people died in Texas vs the 3770 who have died from Covid. Maybe cause funerals are being delayed https://www.texmed.org/Template.aspx?id=48701 https://www.star-telegram.com/news/coronavirus/article244267152.html https://www.texmed.org/Template.aspx?id=48701 I couldn’t find Texas numbers for this flu season that didn’t include “influenza like illness” that might potentially be Covid-19 But let’s use last year, 10,000 from Sept 18-Aug -19. Primarily , Sept - April so 8 months. Roughly 40 deaths/day 129 deaths from Covid-19 yesterday in Texas, and perhaps there is a belief in Public Health deaths will stay there or continue to increase based on the condition of patients in hospital and the number of new hospitalizations I can easily see why one would need extra mortuary capacity for 129 deaths/day vs 40, whether or not funerals are delayed It’s not the overall number, it’s the intensity in local areas and #/day 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted July 18, 2020 Author Posted July 18, 2020 10 hours ago, Figster said: Contact tracing is a flawed method in the fight against Covid 19 in my humble opinion. For the simple fact that you have to many people reluctant to share their activities for various reason. Will a married man give out the name/s of his mistress/s? Same goes for the mistress. Will a drug dealer give out the names of his customers? Will a working man divulge in his whereabouts while he's spending time at the lake with his buddies fishing when he's supposed to be at work? Probably not.( just a few examples) Regardless of how much coaxing a contact tracer uses to many gaps will occur to do a good job overall IMO. I realize it may create a security risk in some instances. In my opinion the names and addresses of people infected should be readily available to the public so everyone who may have come into contact with Covid 19 can find out for themselves. If my neighbor has Covid 19 it would be good to know so I can take extra precautionary measures. The same goes in apartments whrere shared stairways or elevators might be used. Thoughts anyone? Oh, NFW is it appropriate to give out the names and addresses of infected people. I mean, we have thieves who monitor the death notices for funeral times and dates so they can rob the house while the family of the deceased are off mourning. Just what we need - low-lifes to break into a house where the owners are on vents or just prostrate in bed and steal their pulse oximeters. Contact tracing is the best we got. Most people’s daily contacts are much more mundane. Ideally, we would have apps where anonymizes Bluetooth codes would be captured and if you’re infected, you are asked to give the codes for the last few days to the contact tracers who can then publicize anonymous codes. I don’t have a problem with someone knowing that some random anonymized numeric code that was near them for 15 minutes during some part of their day is now Covid-19 infected. But somehow that’s more intrusive of privacy than GIVING OUT MY NAME AND ADDRESS if I get Covid-19? Srsly? Like no way. You don’t need to take extra precautions because your neighbor has Covid-19. The definition of a contact is 15 minutes closer than 6 feet. Just stay 6 feet away when you chat or both wear masks and you’re not at significantly increased risk. The same goes for shared stairways and elevators. Unless you are walking up and down the stairway for 15 minutes shoulder to shoulder with others like evacuating from the World Trade Center, the risk is minimal, especially if you wear a mask and push the elevator buttons with a pencil or similar, then sanitize your hands when you get out of the stairs. 1
Figster Posted July 18, 2020 Posted July 18, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Oh, NFW is it appropriate to give out the names and addresses of infected people. I mean, we have thieves who monitor the death notices for funeral times and dates so they can rob the house while the deceased is off mourning. Just what we need - low-lifes to break into a house where the owners are on vents or just prostrate in bed and steal their pulse oximeters. Contact tracing is the best we got. Most people’s daily contacts are much more mundane. Ideally, we would have apps where anonymizes Bluetooth codes would be captured and if you’re infected, you are asked to give the codes for the last few days to the contact tracers who can then publicize anonymous codes. I don’t have a problem with someone knowing that some random anonymized numeric code that was near them for 15 minutes during some part of their day is now Covid-19 infected. But somehow that’s more intrusive of privacy than GIVING OUT MY NAME AND ADDRESS if I get Covid-19? Srsly? Like no way. You don’t need to take extra precautions because your neighbor has Covid-19. The definition of a contact is 15 minutes closer than 6 feet. Just stay 6 feet away when you chat or both wear masks and you’re not at significantly increased risk. The same goes for shared stairways and elevators. Unless you are walking up and down the stairway for 15 minutes shoulder to shoulder with others like evacuating from the World Trade Center, the risk is minimal, especially if you wear a mask and push the elevator buttons with a pencil or similar, then sanitize your hands when you get out of the stairs. Myself personally, If my next door neighbor has Covid 19 its going to change the precautions I take. Windows wouldn't be opened on the side facing their house. I'll avoid letting their kids run up to me. Like most people I don't wear a mask doing yard work ,but I would probably start. I could go on and on about how knowing where Covid 19 has taken up residence might help me. No, I highly doubt theives are looking to exploit people with the virus because for one its an indication theres probably allot of occupants at home under quarantine. Two you might end up with the virus. Today, I can think of over 77,000 reasons why contact tracing isn't working well. In some states you can't even narrow down the case load by zip code. Like its some deep, dark, well kept secret. The way I see it knowing where the virus is and who has it would save lives. We have a difference of opinion... Edited July 18, 2020 by Figster
Hapless Bills Fan Posted July 18, 2020 Author Posted July 18, 2020 24 minutes ago, Figster said: Myself personally, If my next door neighbor has Covid 19 its going to change the precautions I take. Windows wouldn't be opened on the side facing their house. I'll avoid letting their kids run up to me. Like most people I don't wear a mask doing yard work ,but I would probably start. I could go on and on about how knowing where Covid 19 has taken up residence might help me. No, I highly doubt theives are looking to exploit people with the virus because for one its an indication theres probaly allot of occupants at home under quarantine. Two you will probably end up with the virus. Today, I can think of over 77,000 reasons why contract tracing isn't working well. In most states you can't even narrow down the case load by zip code. The way I see it knowing where the virus is and who has it would save lives. We have a difference of opinion... We agree that contact tracing isn't working well in the US, but it isn't because it shouldn't and wouldn't, done right. Somehow other democracies do manage this.... Your precautions are up to you, but they are out-of-sync with a large body of emerging data about how the virus spreads and doesn't spread. Based on data available, it's not really "opinion" that publicizing names and addresses of covid-19 patients would be an invasion of privacy not justified by any decreased risk of infection due to closing your window and wearing a mask out in your yard, even if your neighbor is not within 6 feet of you. Furthermore, it wouldn't fill a lot of contact tracing needs because knowing your neighbor's name would not identify him as the customer standing next to a patron of a bar for 2 hrs, or the guy sitting behind someone on public transportation on a long route, which are far higher infection risks than an open window facing the neighbor's house or being outdoors in an adjacent backyard. Possibly not letting his kids run up to you might help. There is not great data on how readily kids are 1) infected - one study suggests 50% less than adults and 2) pass infection to adults. There isn't clear contact tracing data saying they do, there isn't clear data excluding this as many cases of disease have unknown origin. If that's the level of precaution you feel is necessary or reasonable, you should probably just not have your windows open or work in your yard without a mask or greet your neighbor's kids, because maybe your neighbor (or his kids) actually has covid-19 and just hasn't been diagnosed or found out he'd have to sign up for a slot 3 days from now, wait in his car for 2 hrs to be tested, and wait 10 days for results.
Figster Posted July 18, 2020 Posted July 18, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: We agree that contact tracing isn't working well in the US, but it isn't because it shouldn't and wouldn't, done right. Somehow other democracies do manage this.... Your precautions are up to you, but they are out-of-sync with a large body of emerging data about how the virus spreads and doesn't spread. Based on data available, it's not really "opinion" that publicizing names and addresses of covid-19 patients would be an invasion of privacy not justified by any decreased risk of infection due to closing your window and wearing a mask out in your yard, even if your neighbor is not within 6 feet of you. Furthermore, it wouldn't fill a lot of contact tracing needs because knowing your neighbor's name would not identify him as the customer standing next to a patron of a bar for 2 hrs, or the guy sitting behind someone on public transportation on a long route, which are far higher infection risks than an open window facing the neighbor's house or being outdoors in an adjacent backyard. Possibly not letting his kids run up to you might help. There is not great data on how readily kids are 1) infected - one study suggests 50% less than adults and 2) pass infection to adults. There isn't clear contact tracing data saying they do, there isn't clear data excluding this as many cases of disease have unknown origin. If that's the level of precaution you feel is necessary or reasonable, you should probably just not have your windows open or work in your yard without a mask or greet your neighbor's kids, because maybe your neighbor (or his kids) actually has covid-19 and just hasn't been diagnosed or found out he'd have to sign up for a slot 3 days from now, wait in his car for 2 hrs to be tested, and wait 10 days for results. We got a little side tracked on why I think going public is a good idea. Its not out of personal preference. Having the names and addresses posted publicly allows the public an ability to trace themselves IMO. Some people could be feeding contact tracers bogus information just to scare someone they don't like and put them under quarantine. Contact tracing on its own is leaving to many gaps in the tracking and just not working well enough IMO. Posting the names eliminates all the time consuming investigations, all the false reporting, and puts the information out there quick so it can warn people immediately IMO. A persons address is no secret. So you know that persons sick or may have sick family members. I'm not sure what the big deal is to be honest. Covid 19 is normally gone within a couple of weeks. I'm not sure why warning people you have it is an invasion of privacy. Drastic times call for drastic measures. I knew months ago the best way we have to combat Covid 19 is to wear a mask. Not just any mask. I wear an R95 mask. Very comfortable and easier to wear in comparison to the N95 IMO. Now that they are readily available to the public, I encourage my fellow Bills fans to do the same. Working Nuclear in the past has given me 1st hand knowledge and experience in dealing with airborne particulates. Myself personally, most of the country is still out of sync with the data available. I keep hearing it, over and over again. "I did everything by the book yet I just tested positive anyway." Wear a better mask people. How do you suppose 6 feet is a safe social distance when its been scientically proven droplets from a sneeze can travel twice as far? Yes, having an 82 year old mom with underlying conditions probably has me going a bit overboard with precautions. Thanks for the insightful response ( per usual) much appreciated. Edited July 18, 2020 by Figster
Saxum Posted July 18, 2020 Posted July 18, 2020 7 hours ago, The Dean said: Truth seems to be, when it's a LAW most people tend to comply. It seems to me compliance drops significantly when it's just a "suggestion". I don't have any data to support that at the moment unfortunately. But just look at the behavior ( and the infection rate) when things went from totally locked down to more open but "we recommend you try to be good". It's a freaking disaster here in Florida. BTW, it also helps businesses who want to enforce a policy to be able to say "it's the law!" Florida educational system does not help.
Buddo Posted July 18, 2020 Posted July 18, 2020 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-53423637/coronavirus-us-v-other-countries-did-it-mess-up-its-reopening Interesting piece, with decent graphical representations of the things that are being looked, at in respect of when, and how, to open things up.
BillsFan4 Posted July 18, 2020 Posted July 18, 2020 (edited) Quote I confirmed legit with another source. Has not been released to the public, WTF, why? https://publicintegrity.org/health/coronavirus-and-inequality/exclusive-white-house-document-shows-18-states-in-coronavirus-red-zone-covid-19/ @Hapless Bills Fan post from the facts thread (this is the only way I know how to quote a post from a different thread). I thought this post deserved some discussion. This is crazy! The CDC should be leading this fight. They are the foremost experts on infectious disease in the world. It’s criminal (IMO) that they’re being forced to sit on the sidelines. Infuriating ? There’s a reason we’re about the only major country yet to get our covid outbreak under control... (graph shared by k9) Edited July 18, 2020 by BillsFan4 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted July 18, 2020 Author Posted July 18, 2020 10 hours ago, Figster said: We got a little side tracked on why I think going public is a good idea. Its not out of personal preference. Having the names and addresses posted publicly allows the public an ability to trace themselves IMO. bull####. It would only allow you to track infections in people you have been in close contact with if you are well-enough acquainted to know their names. Unless you are living a hermit-like lifestyle, that doesn't begin to scratch the surface of all your contacts. It does not allow you to identify that you spent 30 minutes in a small doctor's waiting room yesterday who was using his mask as a chin strap, or seated by a table in a restaurant where two people later proved to be infected. It is also a heinous violation of medical privacy and personal privacy. We're not going to allow anonymized bluetooth to bluetooth tracking algorithms because it's an invasion of privacy but we're going to Doxx people for contracting a contagious disease? Doxxing is considered an awful thing to do among ethical hackers for damn good reason. I'm not going to keep arguing this. If you think the potential benefit outweighs the potential harms to these people, you're wrong. Quote Some people could be feeding contact tracers bogus information just to scare someone they don't like and put them under quarantine. I'm sorry, people potentially being ***** and doing something wrong does not give us the right to invade people's medical and personal privacy in a heinous way by posting the names and addresses of people who have been positively diagnosed with covid-19. This is so off the charts invasive of privacy that I am starting to believe you're trolling me. IN YOUR OPINION it would be no big deal for my neighbor to know I have covid-19 or make me the target of thieves and crazy people, and yet people who are Doxxed or who Doxx themselves with funeral notices have that happen regularly. So your solution to the possibility that an infected person might lie to the contact tracers and cause you inconvenience (quarantine is not being enforced after all, and you could say "I was not at dinner with Joe Schmo at Wiggly's on Thursday Night") is to expose every covid-19 infected person to every nutcase in the country, just on the chance that you might leave your window open facing my house and in an undocumented never-has-been-shown-to-happen-in-countries that do great contact tracing covid-19 particle might waft its way out my bedroom window, across the space between our houses (where substantial dilution from brownian motion in outside air occurs) and in your open window? Just close your freakin windows and wear a mask every step you're outside if you're concerned for that low level of likelihood. And present some data that this actually has been shown to occur if you want to go on about it. Quote Drastic times call for drastic measures. Then let's make them effective drastic measures, which can be done in a way that does not publically invade people's personal and medical privacy using an anonymized bluetooth proximity capture. You totally fail to address the point that publishing names only allows you to track the small number of contacts where you know the person's name and address (because many people have the same or similar names - how many John Browns are there in the world?) but those people are too selfish or ***** to give your correct info to contact tracers or to just call you directly and say "sorry to say this but....". Since most people are not selfish or weaseling *****, this cuts the utility of publishing down to a small fraction of known-name-and-address contacts that would accomplish anything new. And as previously discussed and unaddressed, known name and address contacts are only a small fraction of the potential exposures a person who is working or who is out in the community shopping, dining etc has in the day. So this would have very small impact. Quote How do you suppose 6 feet is a safe social distance when its been scientically proven droplets from a sneeze can travel twice as far? Don't you see the irony? You think names and addresses of contacts (which only allow you to trace contacts whose names and addresses you know, and who you know to have been in close contact with you for >15 minutes) would make better contact tracing possible, but yet you yourself are concerned about infection from people who are 12 feet away from you, and who you may be totally unaware you were near. Don't you see the contradiction there? I don't "suppose" Figster, I look at data. It's a numbers game. You need a certain number of infectious particles to contract an infection. Infectious particles come in different sizes, from large droplets that (because physics) fall to the ground within less than three feet, to smaller aerosol particles. Some particles will travel farther, but the infectivity measured for covid-19 disease indicates that it isn't measles - transient distant contact is not showing up as a cause of disease, in countries where detailed contact tracing is conducted and this information is available. Where people were infected who were further away from an infected person contract covid the exposure was 1) prolonged (hours) 2)forceful exhalations (eg singing, shouting, loud talking in a noisy restaurant) 3) in a venue with poor air circulation (a restaurant with exhaust fans shut off, a choir practice room. And even a bandana mask mitigates transmission. Here: And here if you don't want to watch the video, though I recommend the video: https://www.boredpanda.com/how-well-do-masks-work-schlieren-imaging/?utm_source=duckduckgo&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=organic For those who care, the difference between an N95 and an R95 respirator is described here. Are you really wearing an oil-protective short lifespan R95, or are you incorrectly using R95 to describe a valved N95 mask, which does not provide protection for other people? I will not keep responding - if there is new information in subsequent posts, links, studies, contact tracing articles to justify this POV, OK. If it just keeps reiterating the same opinions without any data or without addressing counterpoints, trolling may be assumed. 1
Figster Posted July 18, 2020 Posted July 18, 2020 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: bull####. It would only allow you to track infections in people you have been in close contact with if you are well-enough acquainted to know their names. Unless you are living a hermit-like lifestyle, that doesn't begin to scratch the surface of all your contacts. It does not allow you to identify that you spent 30 minutes in a small doctor's waiting room yesterday who was using his mask as a chin strap, or seated by a table in a restaurant where two people later proved to be infected. It is also a heinous violation of medical privacy and personal privacy. We're not going to allow anonymized bluetooth to bluetooth tracking algorithms because it's an invasion of privacy but we're going to Doxx people for contracting a contagious disease? Doxxing is considered an awful thing to do among ethical hackers for damn good reason. I'm not going to keep arguing this. If you think the potential benefit outweighs the potential harms to these people, you're wrong. I'm sorry, people potentially being ***** and doing something wrong does not give us the right to invade people's medical and personal privacy in a heinous way by posting the names and addresses of people who have been positively diagnosed with covid-19. This is so off the charts invasive of privacy that I am starting to believe you're trolling me. IN YOUR OPINION it would be no big deal for my neighbor to know I have covid-19 or make me the target of thieves and crazy people, and yet people who are Doxxed or who Doxx themselves with funeral notices have that happen regularly. So your solution to the possibility that an infected person might lie to the contact tracers and cause you inconvenience (quarantine is not being enforced after all, and you could say "I was not at dinner with Joe Schmo at Wiggly's on Thursday Night") is to expose every covid-19 infected person to every nutcase in the country, just on the chance that you might leave your window open facing my house and in an undocumented never-has-been-shown-to-happen-in-countries that do great contact tracing covid-19 particle might waft its way out my bedroom window, across the space between our houses (where substantial dilution from brownian motion in outside air occurs) and in your open window? Just close your freakin windows and wear a mask every step you're outside if you're concerned for that low level of likelihood. And present some data that this actually has been shown to occur if you want to go on about it. Then let's make them effective drastic measures, which can be done in a way that does not publically invade people's personal and medical privacy using an anonymized bluetooth proximity capture. You totally fail to address the point that publishing names only allows you to track the small number of contacts where you know the person's name and address (because many people have the same or similar names - how many John Browns are there in the world?) but those people are too selfish or ***** to give your correct info to contact tracers or to just call you directly and say "sorry to say this but....". Since most people are not selfish or weaseling *****, this cuts the utility of publishing down to a small fraction of known-name-and-address contacts that would accomplish anything new. And as previously discussed and unaddressed, known name and address contacts are only a small fraction of the potential exposures a person who is working or who is out in the community shopping, dining etc has in the day. So this would have very small impact. Don't you see the irony? You think names and addresses of contacts (which only allow you to trace contacts whose names and addresses you know, and who you know to have been in close contact with you for >15 minutes) would make better contact tracing possible, but yet you yourself are concerned about infection from people who are 12 feet away from you, and who you may be totally unaware you were near. Don't you see the contradiction there? I don't "suppose" Figster, I look at data. It's a numbers game. You need a certain number of infectious particles to contract an infection. Infectious particles come in different sizes, from large droplets that (because physics) fall to the ground within less than three feet, to smaller aerosol particles. Some particles will travel farther, but the infectivity measured for covid-19 disease indicates that it isn't measles - transient distant contact is not showing up as a cause of disease, in countries where detailed contact tracing is conducted and this information is available. Where people were infected who were further away from an infected person contract covid the exposure was 1) prolonged (hours) 2)forceful exhalations (eg singing, shouting, loud talking in a noisy restaurant) 3) in a venue with poor air circulation (a restaurant with exhaust fans shut off, a choir practice room. And even a bandana mask mitigates transmission. Here: And here if you don't want to watch the video, though I recommend the video: https://www.boredpanda.com/how-well-do-masks-work-schlieren-imaging/?utm_source=duckduckgo&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=organic For those who care, the difference between an N95 and an R95 respirator is described here. Are you really wearing an oil-protective short lifespan R95, or are you incorrectly using R95 to describe a valved N95 mask, which does not provide protection for other people? I will not keep responding - if there is new information in subsequent posts, links, studies, contact tracing articles to justify this POV, OK. If it just keeps reiterating the same opinions without any data or without addressing counterpoints, trolling may be assumed. Yes, I'm wearing the oil-protective short lifespan R95 with replacement filters. Expensive, and well worth it in my humble opinion. It does the job and doesn't take away from health professionals that need the N95. This is not the facts only thread and just because we have a difference of opinion does not mean I'm trolling you. I speak from experience working in an enviroment where airborne particulates are prevalent. Contact tracing here in the US is not doing enough and I touched on some of the reasons why. Looking for solutions not confrontations...
BillsFan4 Posted July 18, 2020 Posted July 18, 2020 https://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/20200717/ousted-florida-scientist-rebekah-jones-whistleblower-complaint-takes-aim-at-gov-ron-desantis “Ousted Florida scientist Rebekah Jones’ whistleblower complaint takes aim at Gov. Ron DeSantis“ Quote Complaint accuses Gov. Ron DeSantis’ health agency of seeking to falsify statistics to justify the state’s reopening from the coronavirus pandemic in May. Quote These efforts to falsify the numbers are a pattern and practice in Florida government that goes on to this day,” Jones’ Tallahassee attorney, Rick Johnson, said in a statement. ”(Gov.) Ron DeSantis has routinely given false numbers to the press. His underlings at (the Health Department) follow his example and his direction.” ?
Augie Posted July 18, 2020 Posted July 18, 2020 My 27 year old son tells me 3 or 4 of his friends signed up for testing for various reasons, they had been traveling or whatnot. These 3-4 guys waited in long lines in Florida, then gave up and never got tested. They later got notices that they had tested positive. I have no idea what to make of any of this...... ?♂️
LB3 Posted July 18, 2020 Posted July 18, 2020 10 minutes ago, Augie said: My 27 year old son tells me 3 or 4 of his friends signed up for testing for various reasons, they had been traveling or whatnot. These 3-4 guys waited in long lines in Florida, then gave up and never got tested. They later got notices that they had tested positive. I have no idea what to make of any of this...... ?♂️ Numbers have to go up. Fear is necessary in this.
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