K-9 Posted July 14, 2020 Posted July 14, 2020 39 minutes ago, driddles said: Canada to extend border closure to Aug 21st. If they follow the standard pattern they will also extend to Sept 21st mandatory quarantine for returning Canadians. As a longtime season ticket holder from Canada I have to accept that fans or no fans, I won't be at the home opener for the first time in 17 years. I doubt anyone will be at the home opener.
Saxum Posted July 14, 2020 Posted July 14, 2020 1 hour ago, driddles said: Canada to extend border closure to Aug 21st. If they follow the standard pattern they will also extend to Sept 21st mandatory quarantine for returning Canadians. As a longtime season ticket holder from Canada I have to accept that fans or no fans, I won't be at the home opener for the first time in 17 years. Not if the cancel the season; your record will be in tact. In fact if season is held a lot of records will be broken.
The Dean Posted July 14, 2020 Posted July 14, 2020 5 hours ago, driddles said: Canada to extend border closure to Aug 21st. If they follow the standard pattern they will also extend to Sept 21st mandatory quarantine for returning Canadians. As a longtime season ticket holder from Canada I have to accept that fans or no fans, I won't be at the home opener for the first time in 17 years. 4 hours ago, Limeaid said: Not if the cancel the season; your record will be in tact. In fact if season is held a lot of records will be broken. IF the games are played (a big if) they will likely be played without fans, IMO. In that case, I'd argue attendance records stay intact, since you have no choice in the matter. 2
Saxum Posted July 14, 2020 Posted July 14, 2020 38 minutes ago, The Dean said: IF the games are played (a big if) they will likely be played without fans, IMO. In that case, I'd argue attendance records stay intact, since you have no choice in the matter. It will be to me like 1816, The year without a summer, with the Covid-19 virus being the Mount Tambora volcano explosion. 1 1
BillsFan4 Posted July 15, 2020 Posted July 15, 2020 https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/507321-white-house-tells-hospitals-to-bypass-cdc-on-covid-data-reporting “White House tells hospitals to bypass CDC on COVID-19 data reporting (starting Wednesday)“ Thursday’s headline: “COVID19 magically disappears. No new cases reported in the U.S. today!” ? (kidding, of course)
Saxum Posted July 15, 2020 Posted July 15, 2020 The U.S. secretary of education blasted the Fairfax school district's handling of virtual learning and plans for the fall. https://patch.com/virginia/kingstowne/devos-criticizes-fairfax-schools-reopening-plan-leaders-react Quote We see as we talk about reopening schools, there are some creating false paradigms for the fall. And here, right in our neighborhood, the DC area Fairfax County, which is one of the most well-funded, I would call it an elite public school system in America, offered families a so-called choice for this fall: either zero days in school for their students or two days. And their springtime attempt at distance learning was a disaster. But I give this as an example because things like this cannot happen again in the fall. It would fail America's students, and it would fail taxpayers who pay high taxes for their education. Ultimately it's not a matter of if schools should reopen. It's simply a matter of how. Quote They must fully open and they must be fully operational, and how that happens is best left to education and community leaders. Unless you disagree with her boss. Only experience she has in education is as support for school choice and fund raising PAC based on it and organizations which support it. Quote The remarks from [Betty] DeVos come as President Donald Trump threatened to withhold federal funding for schools that do not reopen in the fall. "In Germany, Denmark, Norway, Sweden and many other countries, SCHOOLS ARE OPEN WITH NO PROBLEMS," the president tweeted. Sweden is one of the WORST examples which could have been used. They basically ignored it allowing it to spread with (reindeer) herd philosophy.
ExiledInIllinois Posted July 15, 2020 Posted July 15, 2020 1 hour ago, Limeaid said: It will be to me like 1816, The year without a summer, with the Covid-19 virus being the Mount Tambora volcano explosion. Will there be snow in Rochester, New York recorded for every month of the year? Ponds freezing in July in New England and mass famine in Europe too? I won't except anything less than starving hoards of heathens at Patriot*Place in Foxborough!? ?
LB3 Posted July 15, 2020 Posted July 15, 2020 On 7/10/2020 at 10:11 PM, Augie said: Yes, people do die every year. Hard to argue that. That’s as far as I can go here. What’s your point? Covid deaths are a drop in the bucket? Is your mom a drop in the bucket. How about Granny in the nursing home? Do you suggest eliminating seat belts? I hope I misunderstood this, in which case I apologize. It sounds like “cancer doesn’t kill everybody, it’s not that big of a deal.” . Losing a loved one is never easy. I guess the data I want won't be available till the end of the year. I want to see the growth of the death rate between 2019 and 2020. The highest growth rate was in 2014 at 1.29%. I know two people who died from Covid. Even though each had less than a year to live from other serious issues, their deaths were still tragic. I know one person who died from despair. I want to know the true worth of the lockdown. Not the precautionary measures, but the extended lockdown.
bdutton Posted July 15, 2020 Posted July 15, 2020 https://thefederalist.com/2020/07/15/how-covid-control-freaks-cultivate-americas-culture-of-fear/?fbclid=IwAR2zZSm0Iq8xnknQgdIofmC2_QHkbPL4EYy_0ebdUu5XzU8rurTFuRz4eI8 Quote Consider the consequences of facing our times unafraid: If you are not concerned about initiating a second wave of COVID-19 deaths, you are heartless. If you question whether facemask requirements are diminishing our humanity, you are an idiot. If you believe that freedom to practice religion is more important than preventing every possible bodily tragedy, you are mentally sick. If you chafe at the phrase “these uncertain times” because all times are uncertain, you are underestimating the problem. If you do not worry about the financial security of your family, you are either a despicable plutocrat or an ignorant optimist. Interesting read. Both sides are playing politics with the virus. Quote But in this divided and antagonistic nation, how can we stay safe? The answer is simple. Intimidating those you deem wrong is the key to security. Threats are necessary to ensure justice. Coercion and bullying will bring about political change. You must live in constant fear of others, but constantly make them even more fearful of you, and above all of us must loom the larger fears of poverty, pain, and death. Not only was F.D.R. wrong, so was Patrick Henry. “Give me liberty or give me death”? No. Take my liberty as long as it will protect me from death. Dear America, here is your charge: Keep me safe from viruses, safe from injustice, safe from political upheaval, safe from any unfairness that life might present. In return, I offer up my rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I renounce my rights to freedom of religion, of speech, of press, of assembly. Really, it is a small price to sacrifice the abstract for the tangible, isn’t it? Fear makes the Faustian bargain so devilishly tempting. Take my soul, just save my body. He is being facetious of course.
Mr Info Posted July 15, 2020 Posted July 15, 2020 3 hours ago, LB3 said: Losing a loved one is never easy. I guess the data I want won't be available till the end of the year. I want to see the growth of the death rate between 2019 and 2020. The highest growth rate was in 2014 at 1.29%. I know two people who died from Covid. Even though each had less than a year to live from other serious issues, their deaths were still tragic. I know one person who died from despair. I want to know the true worth of the lockdown. Not the precautionary measures, but the extended lockdown. Imo, the # of deaths should not be the basis if you are trying to perform a comparison. The data should also include the # of people hospitalized and those in ICU/ventilators for a C19 impact analysis. So far, I have had a close friend and an acquaintance who were both in ICU & on ventilators for over 12 days. One even had a tracheostomy. Many of us thought neither would make it but thankfully both are now home. Just comparing C19 deaths against flu deaths in other years without including the impact to the medical community to treat C19 patients and prevent death would not encompass the full impact of C19. 2
teef Posted July 15, 2020 Posted July 15, 2020 aaaaannnndddd...my kid's daycare had a covid patient. right in her age group. we got our call from the department of health, and she'll be on quarantine until the beginning on next week. so it begins. 1
LB3 Posted July 15, 2020 Posted July 15, 2020 49 minutes ago, Mr Info said: Imo, the # of deaths should not be the basis if you are trying to perform a comparison. The data should also include the # of people hospitalized and those in ICU/ventilators for a C19 impact analysis. So far, I have had a close friend and an acquaintance who were both in ICU & on ventilators for over 12 days. One even had a tracheostomy. Many of us thought neither would make it but thankfully both are now home. Just comparing C19 deaths against flu deaths in other years without including the impact to the medical community to treat C19 patients and prevent death would not encompass the full impact of C19. I want all deaths vs all deaths. I'm thankful your friends came out ok. That's a blessing.
K-9 Posted July 15, 2020 Posted July 15, 2020 2 minutes ago, wAcKy ZeBrA said: Some would say this is unbelievable. For any other administration, it would be. 2
Hapless Bills Fan Posted July 15, 2020 Author Posted July 15, 2020 18 hours ago, Limeaid said: Sweden is one of the WORST examples which could have been used. They basically ignored it allowing it to spread with (reindeer) herd philosophy. It's actually not true that Sweden ignored covid-19. They issued guidelines calling for voluntary compliance, including asking people to work from home and minimize travel. They closed high schools and colleges. They did leave bars and restaurants and other businesses open. But they may have done more. They may have maintained health care system capacity by triaging health care to the elderly: “Analyzed by categorical age group, older Swedish patients with confirmed COVID-19 were more likely to die than to be admitted to the ICU, suggesting that predicted prognosis may have been a factor in ICU admission,” the researchers write in a study published online for the journal Clinical Infectious Diseases. “This likely reduced ICU load at the cost of more high-risk patients dying outside the ICU.” The implication here is that Sweden chose to emphasize personal responsibility, but when the choice led to increased infections among the elderly, medical professionals seem to have taken on the responsibility of choosing who likely lives and dies. Given that the analysis finds not all the nation’s ICU beds were occupied, it’s not even clear that this was necessary." Several analyses posted upthread have shown that Sweden's economy has still taken a substantial hit. Anyway, because Sweden maintained a policy of not contact tracing or testing asymptomatic people, even though they should be a great source of info on what happens to covid-19 transmission when you keep schools open .....THEY DIDN'T COLLECT THE DATA so we don't know.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted July 15, 2020 Author Posted July 15, 2020 3 hours ago, Mr Info said: Imo, the # of deaths should not be the basis if you are trying to perform a comparison. The data should also include the # of people hospitalized and those in ICU/ventilators for a C19 impact analysis. So far, I have had a close friend and an acquaintance who were both in ICU & on ventilators for over 12 days. One even had a tracheostomy. Many of us thought neither would make it but thankfully both are now home. Just comparing C19 deaths against flu deaths in other years without including the impact to the medical community to treat C19 patients and prevent death would not encompass the full impact of C19. This. Not just the medical community, but also to the patients. Patients who are released after prolonged stays in the ICU need months of therapy to recover. Some, who have had strokes or organ damage, may suffer life-long debilitation.
Saxum Posted July 15, 2020 Posted July 15, 2020 1 hour ago, Gugny said: Well, hopefully, this is our first and last dictatorship. There is a difference between a Czar and a Dictator. Some dictators were actually competent and not raiding treasury.
plenzmd1 Posted July 15, 2020 Posted July 15, 2020 14 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: It's actually not true that Sweden ignored covid-19. They issued guidelines calling for voluntary compliance, including asking people to work from home and minimize travel. They closed high schools and colleges. They did leave bars and restaurants and other businesses open. But they may have done more. They may have maintained health care system capacity by triaging health care to the elderly: “Analyzed by categorical age group, older Swedish patients with confirmed COVID-19 were more likely to die than to be admitted to the ICU, suggesting that predicted prognosis may have been a factor in ICU admission,” the researchers write in a study published online for the journal Clinical Infectious Diseases. “This likely reduced ICU load at the cost of more high-risk patients dying outside the ICU.” The implication here is that Sweden chose to emphasize personal responsibility, but when the choice led to increased infections among the elderly, medical professionals seem to have taken on the responsibility of choosing who likely lives and dies. Given that the analysis finds not all the nation’s ICU beds were occupied, it’s not even clear that this was necessary." Several analyses posted upthread have shown that Sweden's economy has still taken a substantial hit. Anyway, because Sweden maintained a policy of not contact tracing or testing asymptomatic people, even though they should be a great source of info on what happens to covid-19 transmission when you keep schools open .....THEY DIDN'T COLLECT THE DATA so we don't know. well, we do know positives and deaths in Sweden are now basically zero.( wish i knew how to screenshot something here, maybe @shoshin can help me out. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/ It seems to me also saw graphs in the past that shpw death rate was much greater than the other Nordic countries, and wonder if the practice to triage the elderly had an impact on that. Whole nother debate that... 3 hours ago, Mr Info said: Imo, the # of deaths should not be the basis if you are trying to perform a comparison. The data should also include the # of people hospitalized and those in ICU/ventilators for a C19 impact analysis. So far, I have had a close friend and an acquaintance who were both in ICU & on ventilators for over 12 days. One even had a tracheostomy. Many of us thought neither would make it but thankfully both are now home. Just comparing C19 deaths against flu deaths in other years without including the impact to the medical community to treat C19 patients and prevent death would not encompass the full impact of C19. going to be interesting to see the studies of things like this in the coming decade.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted July 15, 2020 Author Posted July 15, 2020 2 hours ago, wAcKy ZeBrA said: Some would say this is unbelievable. TBH, I think it's a response to an overwhelmed and overly bureaucratic reporting process that has been legitimately frustrating members of the covid-19 task force such as Dr. Birx. They are trying to transition to a once-daily update of an online spreadsheet. But, given the background of an administration that has a pattern of misrepresenting the public health situation not to mention politicizing it, it is making a number of people (such as myself) extremely nervous. 26 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: well, we do know positives and deaths in Sweden are now basically zero.( wish i knew how to screenshot something here, maybe @shoshin can help me out. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/ It seems to me also saw graphs in the past that shpw death rate was much greater than the other Nordic countries, and wonder if the practice to triage the elderly had an impact on that. I don't know about Worldometer .... From the horse's mouth, positive cases in Sweden are not zero https://www.covid19insweden.com/en/ I mean, if cases in each region have increased between 1% and 8% over the last 7 days, there is no way that "positives are now basically zero", right? And if deaths in 16 of 21 regions have increased between 1% and 5% over the last 7 days, there is no way that "deaths are now basically zero" either? I believe data on cases and deaths may be lagging by 3-7 days, and that may explain Worldometer showing an apparent decrease, but even there it's not zero. I'm gonna guess that if you look in a week, you're going to see cases and deaths similar to ~July 7th or so. So the death rate is declining but it's not zero. (I think they may have figured out they need to test the employees to keep covid-19 out of the care homes.)
Figster Posted July 15, 2020 Posted July 15, 2020 7 hours ago, LB3 said: Losing a loved one is never easy. I guess the data I want won't be available till the end of the year. I want to see the growth of the death rate between 2019 and 2020. The highest growth rate was in 2014 at 1.29%. I know two people who died from Covid. Even though each had less than a year to live from other serious issues, their deaths were still tragic. I know one person who died from despair. I want to know the true worth of the lockdown. Not the precautionary measures, but the extended lockdown. I want to know what the true worth of a unified lockdown across the US would have been with leadership at the top intelligent enough to do something as simple as wearing a mask.
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