The Dean Posted July 6, 2020 Posted July 6, 2020 3 minutes ago, K-9 said: His silence makes him complicit in the bullcrap espoused by how boss. It’s that simple. And he’s forgotten who he works for as a result. I don't think he was exactly silent. Again, he didn't do what he should have done, that I agree with. But he did stress all the important stuff (masks, social distancing) and clearly (at least to me) made it plain this is a big deal and we all need to do the right thing. When pressed to publicly comment on whether his boss is lying to the public he didn't defend his position, either. THAT would have made him clearly complicit. Instead he said "I'm not going to get into who is right and who is wrong". He had a chance to completely support his boss, if he actually agreed with him. The fact that he didn't speaks volumes, IMO. But I do agree it's a nuanced way to disagree and that isn't what we need right now.
Augie Posted July 6, 2020 Posted July 6, 2020 (edited) 24 minutes ago, K-9 said: His silence makes him complicit in the bullcrap espoused by how boss. It’s that simple. And he’s forgotten who he works for as a result. I’m not disagreeing, and I know almost nothing about this situation, but I’ll play devil’s advocate. Sometimes the right person on the inside can do more good (if they survive) than finding themselves on the outside, replaced by a fool who actually believes. This is just based on some real world “political” experience outside of the world of “politics”. Better to remain silent and survive than get ousted for someone who will parrot the fool. I’ve said too much about something I know too little about. Sorry, just triggered by some experiences in the real world. Sometimes you need to survive to fight another day and be the voice of reason on some level. I have ZERO idea if that is at all the case here. I’ll just retreat now. Thanks for your patience as I recall some %^$#. . Edited July 6, 2020 by Augie
K-9 Posted July 6, 2020 Posted July 6, 2020 1 minute ago, The Dean said: I don't think he was exactly silent. Again, he didn't do what he should have done, that I agree with. But he did stress all the important stuff (masks, social distancing) and clearly (at least to me) made it plain this is a big deal and we all need to do the right thing. When pressed to publicly comment on whether his boss is lying to the public he didn't defend his position, either. THAT would have made him clearly complicit. Instead he said "I'm not going to get into who is right and who is wrong". He had a chance to completely support his boss, if he actually agreed with him. The fact that he didn't speaks volumes, IMO. But I do agree it's a nuanced way to disagree and that isn't what we need right now. Sorry Dean, but when it comes to this pandemic and a comment as irresponsible as the one uttered by his boss, a declarative REFUTATION of the bullcrap is required. In no uncertain terms. As one of the nation’s chief medical officers it’s on him to provide the truth when the lies of others have the potential to cause harm.
The Dean Posted July 6, 2020 Posted July 6, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, K-9 said: Sorry Dean, but when it comes to this pandemic and a comment as irresponsible as the one uttered by his boss, a declarative REFUTATION of the bullcrap is required. In no uncertain terms. As one of the nation’s chief medical officers it’s on him to provide the truth when the lies of others have the potential to cause harm. With that I cannot (and do not) disagree. EDIT: But I will add, any intelligent nuanced listening to what he said in that interview should make it clear he does not agree with Trump. But you are correct. It''s clear (even if only based on the comments from several on this forum) there are a lot of Covidiots out there, who only hear what confirms their bias. In order to combat that, he should have made it EXPLICITLY clear. Edited July 6, 2020 by The Dean 1
K-9 Posted July 6, 2020 Posted July 6, 2020 1 minute ago, Augie said: I’m not disagreeing, and I know almost nothing about this situation, but I’ll play devil’s advocate. Sometimes the right person on the inside can do more good (if they survive) than finding themselves on the outside, replaced by a fool who actually believes. This is just based on some real world “political” experience outside of the world of “politics”. Better to remain silent and survive than get ousted for someone who will parrot the fool. I’ve said too much about something I know too little about. Sorry, just triggered by some experiences in the real world. Sometimes you need to survive to fight another day and be the voice of reason on some level. I have ZERO idea if that is at all the case here. I’ll just retreat now. That’s for your patience as I recall some %^$#. I get your point and it’s been obvious the entire time, to me at least, that Hahn, Fauci, et al are walking that fine line because they DO consider themselves more valuable on the inside and don’t want to risk getting fired for the sake of the public good. But some comments are so irresponsible that they require a rebuttal in no uncertain terms.
Augie Posted July 6, 2020 Posted July 6, 2020 1 minute ago, K-9 said: I get your point and it’s been obvious the entire time, to me at least, that Hahn, Fauci, et al are walking that fine line because they DO consider themselves more valuable on the inside and don’t want to risk getting fired for the sake of the public good. But some comments are so irresponsible that they require a rebuttal in no uncertain terms. I just worry they would intentionally be replaced with some shmuck who would just agree with all the idiotic comments. That’s what scares me the most. What’s worse? I think it’s easy enough to see thru this nonsense.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted July 6, 2020 Author Posted July 6, 2020 29 minutes ago, The Dean said: I don't think he was exactly silent. Again, he didn't do what he should have done, that I agree with. But he did stress all the important stuff (masks, social distancing) and clearly (at least to me) made it plain this is a big deal and we all need to do the right thing. You have valid points, Dean. But here's the thing. We have all these people who think covid-19 is no big deal, in which case masks and social distancing are stupid - discomfort for no good reason. Telling them "hey, if you get covid-19, 99% chance it's harmless" reinforces the "masks and social distancing are stupid" "panic over nothing" message. Failing to provide any clear and persuasive counter-argument when he had the media spotlight and instead just saying "we must wear masks and do social distancing" does not seem like it makes the "big deal" and the "need to do the right thing" very plain. 27 minutes ago, Augie said: I’m not disagreeing, and I know almost nothing about this situation, but I’ll play devil’s advocate. Sometimes the right person on the inside can do more good (if they survive) than finding themselves on the outside, replaced by a fool who actually believes. This is just based on some real world “political” experience outside of the world of “politics”. Better to remain silent and survive than get ousted for someone who will parrot the fool. I'm sure that's the line Hahn, Fauci and others are carefully walking. The problem I see is at some point you run into the "for (mistaken beliefs) to triumph, it is only necessary for good men to do nothing" to paraphrase the famous quote. I suppose the problem is to recognize that point and respond appropriately 2
Bad Things Posted July 6, 2020 Posted July 6, 2020 1 hour ago, Augie said: Silence can speak volumes. I don’t blame a guy for wanting to continue to take care of his family, and saying nothing can say a lot. I do! That's his job! During my career working for the public, I have personally stuck my neck out on numerous occasions, to support the common good. These instances could've easily gotten me fired. Was I worried? Yes, but I was raised knowing right from wrong, and had faith in myself that I could get back up on my feet again if the schiit his the fan. These guys don't give a flying fig, apart from "PR" and damage control. 1
The Dean Posted July 6, 2020 Posted July 6, 2020 5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: You have valid points, Dean. But here's the thing. We have all these people who think covid-19 is no big deal, in which case masks and social distancing are stupid - discomfort for no good reason. Telling them "hey, if you get covid-19, 99% chance it's harmless" reinforces the "masks and social distancing are stupid" "panic over nothing" message. Failing to provide any clear and persuasive counter-argument when he had the media spotlight and instead just saying "we must wear masks and do social distancing" does not seem like it makes the "big deal" and the "need to do the right thing" very plain. You get no argument on that from me.
K-9 Posted July 6, 2020 Posted July 6, 2020 21 minutes ago, Augie said: I just worry they would intentionally be replaced with some shmuck who would just agree with all the idiotic comments. That’s what scares me the most. What’s worse? I think it’s easy enough to see thru this nonsense. Easy for you and me and those who can accept the science for what it is, but not for a certain constituency that sees wearing a mask as tantamount to forfeiting their constitutional rights, takes every opportunity to downplay the seriousness of this pandemic, and looks to their leader for inspiration in doing so.
Augie Posted July 6, 2020 Posted July 6, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Bad Things said: I do! That's his job! During my career working for the public, I have personally stuck my neck out on numerous occasions, to support the common good. These instances could've easily gotten me fired. Was I worried? Yes, but I was raised knowing right from wrong, and had faith in myself that I could get back up on my feet again if the schiit his the fan. These guys don't give a flying fig, apart from "PR" and damage control. I understand, and totally admire, your point. My fear here would be those who do not agree with our leader would be replaced with those who do. I’d like to keep some common sense in the room. I don't like getting political, so I’ll leave it at that. As they say, decisions are made by people who are inside the room. That has value. . Edited July 6, 2020 by Augie
BillsFan4 Posted July 6, 2020 Posted July 6, 2020 (edited) Quote Broadway actor Nick Cordero, known for his roles in “Rock of Ages,” “Waitress,” “Bullets Over Broadway” and “A Bronx Tale The Musical,”... On television, he had guest roles in “***** as Folk” and “Lilyhammer,” and had recurring roles as Victor Lugo in “Blue Bloods” and as Anthony Marino in “Law and Order: Special Victims Unit.” Quote In March 2020, Cordero was hospitalized at Cedars-Sinai Medical Center in Los Angeles after testing positive for coronavirus. Throughout his stay in the hospital, he underwent a leg amputation, was given a temporary pacemaker and was put into a medically induced coma. He had been in the intensive care unit for more than 90 days and suffered from additional complications, like lung infections and septic shock. Kloots, had been giving updates on Cordero’s status on her Instagram stories throughout his hospital stay. Most recently she told Gayle King that he would likely need a double lung transplant if he survived. Many people showed their support with posts and videos using #WakeUpNick. he was “previously healthy with no bad habits” according to his wife. She’s a fitness trainer. Timeline of his illness (documented by her on instagram). https://deadline.com/2020/06/broadway-actor-nick-cordero-better-week-amanda-kloots-update-1202942530/ https://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/pictures/nick-corderos-coronavirus-battle-everything-to-know/leg-amputation/ Edited July 6, 2020 by BillsFan4 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted July 6, 2020 Author Posted July 6, 2020 Someone please tell me this chick was arrested and charged with disorderly conduct and whatever other little charges they could drum up for her
The Dean Posted July 6, 2020 Posted July 6, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Someone please tell me this chick was arrested and charged with disorderly conduct and whatever other little charges they could drum up for her I can't wait for her (almost certainly very lame) apology video. They should lock her up in a Covid ward, but that would be too cruel to those currently there trying to get better. Never mind,. Just saw her arrest video. What a nut case. Edited July 6, 2020 by The Dean
Saxum Posted July 6, 2020 Posted July 6, 2020 14 hours ago, Augie said: This would only lead me to go off on the boss, and I really don’t want to go there. I try not to judge others on their personal decisions of this kind. Maybe he’s working on an exit strategy? I have no idea what his personal concerns, financial status or beliefs are. The silence (which I’m not fully versed in) does speak. Maybe he is planning an exit strategy for election night.
BillsFan4 Posted July 6, 2020 Posted July 6, 2020 1 hour ago, The Dean said: I can't wait for her (almost certainly very lame) apology video. They should lock her up in a Covid ward, but that would be too cruel to those currently there trying to get better. Never mind,. Just saw her arrest video. What a nut case. I felt bad laughing at that 2nd video. She clearly seems to have some type of mental illness.
BillsFan4 Posted July 6, 2020 Posted July 6, 2020 https://buffalonews.com/news/local/state-and-regional/state-report-covid-19-entered-nursing-homes-through-staff-admission-policy-not-to-blame/article_17ae2b30-bf97-11ea-aae0-5b5d6b4012ce.html State report: Covid-19 entered nursing homes through staff, admission policy not to blame Quote State Department of Health report said that Covid-19 entered nursing homes through staff members, and that the death rate was similar to the state's overall coronavirus fatality rate, Health Commissioner Howard Zucker said Monday morning. Zucker said the state's report showed that "admission policies were not a significant factor in nursing home fatalities." Referencing reports and criticism the state has received, Zucker said at the opening of Monday's briefing, "that sometimes a narrative gets perpetuated, when its not based on facts." "The data is clear," Zucker said. "The March 25 guidance was not the driving factor in nursing home deaths.” Quote Zucker said that the virus already was present in nursing homes prior to the March 25 order, saying that 81% of nursing homes in the state who admitted Covid-positive patients already had had Covid-positive residents. Zucker also said the peak in deaths in nursing homes due to the coronavirus peaked prior to the highest point of nursing home admissions in April. He also said that the curve of fatalities in nursing homes lined up with the curve of coronavirus deaths in the state's general population. “We found that the employee infections were related to larger community spread," Zucker said. "And employee transmission has the strongest correlation to nursing home fatalities." Zucker said the data was not to put blame on the hospital staff, and that facilities and the state were following guidelines of the Centers for Disease Control at the time. Those guidelines allowed workers who may have been asymptomatic carriers of the virus to return to work, Zucker said.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted July 6, 2020 Author Posted July 6, 2020 47 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said: https://buffalonews.com/news/local/state-and-regional/state-report-covid-19-entered-nursing-homes-through-staff-admission-policy-not-to-blame/article_17ae2b30-bf97-11ea-aae0-5b5d6b4012ce.html State report: Covid-19 entered nursing homes through staff, admission policy not to blame I'm ambiguous about this On the one hand, I think it matches the experience of other states - that the virus primarily got into the care homes through staff aided by inadequate PPE and infection control protocols and by lack of paid sick or quarantine time off encouraging staff to keep working. In some cases the infection may have entered through a resident who left the home for medical treatment in hospital and came back without known covid-19 infection, then tested positive (in the early days, before much testing). On the other hand, NYS is still doing a funky undercount of the impact of its care home infection problem, by only counting deaths that occurred IN the nursing home as "nursing home deaths". If people died in hospital, it doesn't get counted as a "nursing home death" even if the patient went to hospital from a care home. For example, in other states reporting data, 42% (on average) of reported covid-19 deaths occurred in nursing homes, but in NYS only 13.8%? What's Wrong With This Picture? So a study by an independent audit group would appear appropriate to me. I think to many people, a State Report on whether or not the State screwed up is going to strike most folks as the Fox reporting on conditions in the Henhouse. Even if it's not how covid-19 got into the nursing home, while the nursing homes were struggling to get to grips with the problem and implement better infection control and PPE procedures, adding to their burden with additional known-positive patients requiring infection control procedures did not help. The admission policy was probably a mistake that cost lives any way you slice it, can we say that? And probably, sending ill people who don't require hospitalization home to isolate without enquiring into their living circumstance (are they living with elders or other vulnerable people?) is also a mistake that cost lives and is still going to cost lives, can we say that? 1
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