BillsFan4 Posted June 13, 2020 Posted June 13, 2020 (edited) https://fair.org/home/are-people-getting-sick-staying-home-alone-thats-not-what-a-misinterpreted-survey-said/ Are People Getting Sick Staying Home Alone? That’s Not What a Misinterpreted Survey Said Quote First off, the 66% figure has nothing to do with people staying home. That comes from a question about “source of admission,” which asked where people were living before they were hospitalized—whether at “home,” a nursing home, assisted living facility, jail/prison, homeless and so on. Edit - from the CNBC article in question: “If you isolate, if you take the precautions, your family won’t get infected” said Cuomo. Edited June 13, 2020 by BillsFan4 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 13, 2020 Author Posted June 13, 2020 11 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: "Cuomo says it’s ‘shocking’ most new coronavirus hospitalizations are people who had been staying home" https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/06/ny-gov-cuomo-says-its-shocking-most-new-coronavirus-hospitalizations-are-people-staying-home.html https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/megan-fox/2020/05/14/neurosurgeon-says-face-masks-pose-serious-risk-to-healthy-people-n392431?fbclid=IwAR3iBMKeFEQ0Co2BZxcXj9a10MwqOI66JORRz_VO30JCk75VYF3uDe83GYI https://www.forbes.com/sites/gracemarieturner/2020/05/22/600-physicians-say-lockdowns-are-a-mass-casualty-incident/?fbclid=IwAR1AAViEn2qGHbq2UTln-VatlFkOJV80HY3gxxTi6nGpuA0sgHs1hwWH-uU#205a73d350fa https://abc6onyourside.com/news/local/cdc-says-covid-19-does-not-spread-easily-from-touching-contaminated-surfaces-objects?fbclid=IwAR1M5Dbk5hSj52nf0bBEDqCxdNesG1YWsmk9bO1oSChN67WBTz2gWiocecY https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/sweden/2020-05-12/swedens-coronavirus-strategy-will-soon-be-worlds?fbclid=IwAR3sZeuSiVMZ16a_61Oqf59q0Mu5pw4exLsyDPiYC0Dc3jwdi2EXpMYsHq8 This really isn't shocking at all. Cuomo needs to sit down and talk with his epidemiologists before he opens his yap. In China, the highest "attack rate" for transmission was found within the home. Per the article in the first link, "a majority of those people were either retired or unemployed. Overall, some 73% of the admissions were people over age 51." The question is: who else is in the household, and what are those people doing? How are they employed, where are they traveling? If the people live alone, how are they getting groceries and any other assistance they need? We have a policy in this country of telling infected people who aren't seriously ill "go home and self-isolate". That's great if you live in a spacious home with multiple bathrooms. If you live in a cramped apartment with one bathroom and your mother and father or immune compromised sister lives with you, that's called "a perfect setup to spread a contageous disease" 1
BillsFan4 Posted June 13, 2020 Posted June 13, 2020 Here’s a collection of research papers on pre-symptomatic and asymptomatic spread I put together for @Hapless Bills Fan https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2001737 SARS-CoV-2 Viral Load in Upper Respiratory Specimens of Infected Patients Quote The viral load that was detected in the asymptomatic patient was similar to that in the symptomatic patients, which suggests the transmission potential of asymptomatic or minimally symptomatic patients. These findings are in concordance with reports that transmission may occur early in the course of infection5 and suggest that case detection and isolation may require strategies different from those required for the control of SARS-CoV. How SARS-CoV-2 viral load correlates with culturable virus needs to be determined. Identification of patients with few or no symptoms and with modest levels of detectable viral RNA in the oropharynx for at least 5 days suggests that we need better data to determine transmission dynamics and inform our screening practices. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2001468 Transmission of 2019-nCoV Infection from an Asymptomatic Contact in Germany https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/20-0198_article Potential Presymptomatic Transmission of SARS-CoV-2, Zhejiang Province, China, 2020 https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6914e1.htm Presymptomatic transmission of SARS-CoV-2, Singapore https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32091386/ Potential Presymptomatic Transmission of SARS-CoV-2, Zhejiang Province, China, 2020 https://www.thelancet.com/pdfs/journals/laninf/PIIS1473-3099(20)30114-6.pdf Asymptomatic cases in a family cluster with SARS-CoV-2 infection https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJMc2001899 Evidence of SARS-CoV-2 Infection in Returning Travelers from Wuhan, China Quote Two of the 114 persons (1.8%) in this cohort of travelers who had passed the symptoms-based screening tested positive for SARS-CoV-2 by RT-PCR (cycle threshold value in the two samples, 24.39 and 30.25, respectively). In this effort to evacuate 126 people from Wuhan to Frankfurt, a symptom-based screening process was ineffective in detecting SARS-CoV-2 infection in 2 persons who later were found to have evidence of SARS-CoV-2 in a throat swab. We discovered that shedding of potentially infectious virus may occur in persons who have no fever and no signs or only minor signs of infection. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32329971/ Presymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 Infections and Transmission in a Skilled Nursing Facility https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7078829/ Estimating the asymptomatic proportion of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) cases on board the Diamond Princess cruise ship, Yokohama, Japan, 2020 https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6913e1.htm Asymptomatic and presymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infections in residents of a long-term care skilled nursing facility, king county WA. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32146694/ Clinical Characteristics of 24 Asymptomatic Infections With COVID-19 Screened Among Close Contacts in Nanjing, China https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/clinical-guidance-management-patients.html Covid 19 clinical care guidance (CDC) Quote Asymptomatic and Pre-Symptomatic Infection Several studies have documented SARS-CoV-2 infection in patients who never develop symptoms (asymptomatic) and in patients not yet symptomatic (pre-symptomatic).14,16,18-28 Since asymptomatic persons are not routinely tested, the prevalence of asymptomatic infection and detection of pre-symptomatic infection is not well understood. One study found that as many as 13% of RT-PCR-confirmed cases of SARS-CoV-2 infection in children were asymptomatic.14Another study of skilled nursing facility residents infected with SARS-CoV-2 from a healthcare worker demonstrated that half were asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic at the time of contact tracing evaluation and testing.25 Patients may have abnormalities on chest imaging before the onset of symptoms.19,20 Some data suggest that pre-symptomatic infection tended to be detected in younger individuals and was less likely to be associated with viral pneumonia.19,20 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32243729/ The Isolation Period Should Be Longer: Lesson From a Child Infected With SARS-CoV-2 in Chongqing, China https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1684118220301134 A Systematic Review of Asymptomatic Infections With COVID-19 Quote Since the outbreak of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) in late December 2019, it has brought significant harm and challenges to over 200 countries and regions around the world. However, there is increasing evidence that many patients with COVID-19 are asymptomatic or have only mild symptoms, but they are able to transmit the virus to others. https://journals.lww.com/americantherapeutics/Citation/9000/Prolonged_Viral_RNA_Shedding_Duration_in_COVID_19.98280.aspx 1
BillsFan4 Posted June 13, 2020 Posted June 13, 2020 https://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/20200611/fired-scientist-rebekah-jones-builds-coronavirus-dashboard-to-rival-floridarsquos ‘Fired scientist Rebekah Jones builds coronavirus dashboard to rival Florida’s’ Quote Florida's former top coronavirus data scientist has launched a website showing far more COVID-19 information than she said the state allowed her to report as an employee, including statistics contradicting Florida's official coronavirus numbers and the push to reopen the state. Former Health Department geographic data scientist Rebekah Jones has created FloridaCOVIDAction.com, which asserts that the state's widely read public-facing dashboard under reports how many people have tested positive for the pathogen. Florida also overcounts how many have been tested, Jones said.... Quote "I decided to stop wallowing in self-pity and do something constructive, something useful with the skill set I've been using for so long," Jones said. "People have a right to know what's going on in a straightforward nonpolitical kind of way."
Buffalo Barbarian Posted June 13, 2020 Posted June 13, 2020 2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: This really isn't shocking at all. Cuomo needs to sit down and talk with his epidemiologists before he opens his yap. In China, the highest "attack rate" for transmission was found within the home. Per the article in the first link, "a majority of those people were either retired or unemployed. Overall, some 73% of the admissions were people over age 51." The question is: who else is in the household, and what are those people doing? How are they employed, where are they traveling? If the people live alone, how are they getting groceries and any other assistance they need? We have a policy in this country of telling infected people who aren't seriously ill "go home and self-isolate". That's great if you live in a spacious home with multiple bathrooms. If you live in a cramped apartment with one bathroom and your mother and father or immune compromised sister lives with you, that's called "a perfect setup to spread a contageous disease" And is why the lockdown was useless and this would have all passed by now if they did nothing at all like was done with every so called novel bug that came along before like sars, swine flu ,bird flu etc. 7 hours ago, shoshin said: Do you think people living in high density housing got Covid after being exposed to no humans? Get some basic science. Just because some people can’t trace their exposure doesn’t mean they weren’t exposed. That Cuomo line got traction from a lot of people who latched onto Covid magical transmission and that was not the point. Your anti-mask stuff at this point makes you sound really ill informed. Not yet as bad as B-Gal but getting there. So lets wear masks forever !!! You should get informed and stop listening to propaganda.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted June 13, 2020 Posted June 13, 2020 11 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said: So would they have been better off getting it earlier? When the hospitals were crushed and the Healthcare workers would have to pick and choose who gets treated and who dies. ?? Or. Stay home and get it later when the choice didn't have to be made? Maybe people didn't stay home long enough? The lockdowns were so the system didn't get crushed and ethical choices were avoided. What part did you miss about why the lockdowns existed? We saw the stats in 1919 AND still made the same mistakes this time. If healthCare facilities get crushed, then the area opened up too soon. The only thing this is showing is that people are spoiled, impatient children that can't be told what to do that is best for the group. They have to kick, scream, complain... Which only makes the process take even longer. It's like raising three year olds. Should have been hard universal federal lockdowns till June 1st. States like MA rode the coattails of the rest of NE, no stay at home ORDER. What did you think was gonna happen with 50 different states doing 50 different things. Now the sad part, we wasted time and may have to move to hard universal lockdown. Again. Like dealing with spoiled children that can't sit still. the lockdown is a joke and should have not been implemented like was done in 10 states, Sweden and Japan, but they dont know anything right??
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 13, 2020 Author Posted June 13, 2020 18 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: And is why the lockdown was useless and this would have all passed by now if they did nothing at all like was done with every so called novel bug that came along before like sars, swine flu ,bird flu etc. Spoken like a man who knows no one who was working in a NYC hospital. Could we have done more or different things that would have made the lockdown more effective? Yes Could we have done different things sooner that might have eliminated the need for a lockdown, certainly one as prolonged? Also yes. The US wrote the playbook for the world on how to handle a pandemic, then we threw it in the trash or ignored it. Very frustrating. Was the lockdown useless? No, it saved hospital systems from being overwhelmed in most of the country outside NYC "This would have all passed by now if they did nothing at all" - I know this is asking a lot, but could you actually get some info from a variety of sources perhaps 18 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: So lets wear masks forever !!! You should get informed and stop listening to propaganda. Tell you what. You identify (in detail) the sources you consider propeganda and the sources you consider "appropriate fact based sources" and I'll tell you what I think.
ExiledInIllinois Posted June 13, 2020 Posted June 13, 2020 23 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: the lockdown is a joke and should have not been implemented like was done in 10 states, Sweden and Japan, but they dont know anything right?? Sweden is getting crushed dude: https://nypost.com/2020/06/03/man-behind-swedens-voluntary-lockdown-admits-plans-flaws/amp/ 1
BillsFan4 Posted June 13, 2020 Posted June 13, 2020 38 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Spoken like a man who knows no one who was working in a NYC hospital. Could we have done more or different things that would have made the lockdown more effective? Yes Could we have done different things sooner that might have eliminated the need for a lockdown, certainly one as prolonged? Also yes. The US wrote the playbook for the world on how to handle a pandemic, then we threw it in the trash or ignored it. Very frustrating. Was the lockdown useless? No, it saved hospital systems from being overwhelmed in most of the country outside NYC "This would have all passed by now if they did nothing at all" - I know this is asking a lot, but could you actually get some info from a variety of sources perhaps Tell you what. You identify (in detail) the sources you consider propeganda and the sources you consider "appropriate fact based sources" and I'll tell you what I think. Its also wrong to say “we did nothing” about those other pandemics. We took action early. We let the CDC lead and do their thing. SARS timeline (CDC): https://www.cdc.gov/about/history/sars/timeline.htm - March 12th WHO issues global alert on SARS. - March 14th: CDC activated its Emergency Operations Center (EOC). - March 15th: CDC issued a health alert notice and travel warnings. -March 17th: CDC holds 1st briefing on SARS. 14 cases in the US. -March 20th: CDC issues infection control precautions for aerosol-generating procedures on patients who are suspected of having SARS. -within 2 weeks of WHO alert, the CDC begins utilizing pandemic planning for SARS. (screening, tracing & quarantine) - within 15 days of the WHO global alert: ”CDC quarantine staff began meeting planes, cargo ships and cruise ships coming either directly or indirectly to the United States from China, Singapore and Vietnam and also begins distributing health alert cards to travelers.” - April 3rd: team of international infectious disease experts arrives in Guangdong province to investigate the outbreak (including US experts). - April 4th: President George W. Bush adds SARS to the list of quarantinable diseases, which gives the CDC the authority to isolate persons who might have been exposed to the disease. - by May 6th we had successfully contained it’s spread in the US. But SARS was nowhere near the scale of covid 19. There were only 9000 cases globally and less than 800 total deaths. The United States had less than 40 total cases. We’ve been averaging 1000+ deaths PER DAY, every day for months with covid 19. Covid 19 seems to clearly transmit much easier than SARS. I believe the viral load with SARS peaked much later vs Covid 19 (more infectious later vs earlier with covid) and the symptoms were more pronounced (easier to tell if you had SARS). We took similar actions with other pandemics too. I don’t feel like doing complete timelines for all of them. Here’s a link to the timeline for swine flu: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/2009-pandemic-timeline.html quick highlights: -tested over 1 million within the first month -issued public health emergency -asked congress early for $1.5B to fight the virus - closed schools for 14 days if a single case of h1n1 was found -980 schools were dismissed in May alone -anti-viral drugs released to treat h1n1 - FDA approves 4 h1n1 vaccines in Sept. -1st doses of vaccine released in US by October. Big differences: we had established treatments for influenza already in place (like anti viral drugs). We had more immunity built up to influenza. We had a vaccine by October. The mortality rate for swine flu was 0.02%. We only lost 12,600 total. Our hospitals weren’t being overwhelmed like with covid 19. Once again, not really at all comparable to covid 19. We only had 2 cases of MERS in the US, but it was still monitored closely: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/mers/us.html We never had any (human) cases of bird flu in the US: https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/qa/have-humans-in-the-united-states-ever-contracted-bird-flu 1 1
shoshin Posted June 13, 2020 Posted June 13, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: the lockdown is a joke and should have not been implemented like was done in 10 states, Sweden and Japan, but they dont know anything right?? You can post here if the above discussion is too fact intensive. https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/forum/14-politics-polls-and-pundits/ Edited June 13, 2020 by shoshin 1
Bad Things Posted June 13, 2020 Posted June 13, 2020 3 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: the lockdown is a joke and should have not been implemented like was done in 10 states, Sweden and Japan, but they dont know anything right?? When you say "the lockdown", are you only referring to the half-hearted attempt that occurred in the US? (Sweden and Japan? Huh?) 1
spartacus Posted June 13, 2020 Posted June 13, 2020 14 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said: . Now the sad part, we wasted time and may have to move to hard universal lockdown. Again. Like dealing with spoiled children that can't sit still. probably not - all talk of new lockdowns is fear porn - hospitals in fine shape - green line moving down dramatically - new cases holding steady in orange - no 2nd wave or spike as % of case tested also dropping rapidly - new tests growing rapidly
ExiledInIllinois Posted June 13, 2020 Posted June 13, 2020 32 minutes ago, spartacus said: probably not - all talk of new lockdowns is fear porn - hospitals in fine shape - green line moving down dramatically - new cases holding steady in orange - no 2nd wave or spike as % of case tested also dropping rapidly - new tests growing rapidly Should drop as fast as it rose. People are doing something wrong.
Bad Things Posted June 13, 2020 Posted June 13, 2020 6 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: The real reason for all this is for political power by corrupt politicians https://thefedupdemocrat.home.blog/2020/03/17/cuomo-uses-covid-19-to-dismantle-new-york-democracy/ And for total surveillance https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jun/10/contact-tracing-here-and-its-even-more-frightening/ Keep taking the blue pill if you believe the main stream media, peace. This isn't even worth replying to. Embarrassing. 41 minutes ago, spartacus said: probably not - all talk of new lockdowns is fear porn - hospitals in fine shape - green line moving down dramatically - new cases holding steady in orange - no 2nd wave or spike as % of case tested also dropping rapidly - new tests growing rapidly Would you mind sharing a link for this? I can't read the text on this graphic. Cheers.
BillsFan4 Posted June 13, 2020 Posted June 13, 2020 Study on years of life lost due to covid 19: https://wellcomeopenresearch.org/articles/5-75 Quote Conclusions: Deaths from COVID-19 represent a substantial burden in terms of per-person YLL, more than a decade, even after adjusting for the typical number and type of LTCs found in people dying of COVID-19. The extent of multimorbidity heavily influences the estimated YLL at a given age. More comprehensive and standardised collection of data on LTCs is needed to better understand and quantify the global burden of COVID-19 and to guide policy-making and interventions. Quote Years of life lost For men the average YLL on adjusting for number and type of LTC as well as age was 13.1 (12.2–14.1). For women this value was 10.5 (9.7–11.3). The results were similar under the different assumptions for the age-multimorbidity association and in both sensitivity analyses, whether assuming strongly correlated or independent LTCs (Table 1). For comparison, the YLL based on age alone using the WHO tables was 14.0 and 11.8 for men and women, respectively. It found that people are dying on average over a decade sooner than they were expected to.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 14, 2020 Author Posted June 14, 2020 5 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: the lockdown is a joke and should have not been implemented like was done in 10 states, Sweden and Japan, but they dont know anything right?? Can you give me the list of the 10 states you believe have done well? Thanks! Sweden, while it did not announce a national lockdown, took more measures than were taken in many of our states, and had better adherence to them from their citizens. For example, they had central "command and control" directing the measures taken: "The Swedish constitution prohibits ministerial rule – politicians overruling the advice from its agencies is extremely unusual in Sweden – and mandates that the relevant government body, in this case an expert agency – the Public Health Agency – must initiate all actions to prevent the virus in accordance with Swedish law, rendering state epidemiologist Anders Tegnell a central figure in the crisis. Having an expert agency almost completely in control of the country's COVID-19 response without the involvement of politicians set Sweden apart from other countries." Swedes were asked to socially distance, work from home if able, avoid unnecessary travel, and stay home if ill. Colleges and secondary schools were closed (although primary schools were open). The Swedish Scholastic Aptitude Test was canceled. Airlines canceled flights and several airports closed for a period of time. Events of >50 people were prohibited. Athletic events were canceled, concerts were canceled. Ski resorts voluntarily closed during a major holiday weekend. Cell phone data showed that Swedes by and large showed social responsibility and heeded the requests to curtain travel. Additional important factors: they changed the law so that sick pay took effect immediately instead of after a waiting period. Healthcare is of course, available to all. And, they started testing in JANUARY. March 4th, when the US was still struggling to put testing in place, they started testing "pneumonia of unknown cause". And yes - Sweden has a higher infection rate and higher death rate than its neighboring countries which did impose lockdowns. Japan's government, due to limitations placed on it after WWII, does not have the ability to order a lockdown. However, they can urge citizens to stay home. Mask wearing and a tradition of obedience to authority are also strong. The Northern island of Japan, Hokkaido, locked down TWICE. Then there's this discussing "tough lockdown measures" put in place, including closing many businesses. They also started testing passengers arriving from many countries at the airport - and making them stay in the airport, sleeping on cardboard, until their test results came backhttps://www.euronews.com/2020/04/13/japanese-cities-empty-after-government-toughens-coronavirus-measures Perhaps you should choose a different source from which to get your information, if you have been told Sweden and Japan did not impose covid measures similar to the (rather lax) lockdowns in many of our states. 1
Buffalo Barbarian Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Can you give me the list of the 10 states you believe have done well? Thanks! Sweden, while it did not announce a national lockdown, took more measures than were taken in many of our states, and had better adherence to them from their citizens. For example, they had central "command and control" directing the measures taken: "The Swedish constitution prohibits ministerial rule – politicians overruling the advice from its agencies is extremely unusual in Sweden – and mandates that the relevant government body, in this case an expert agency – the Public Health Agency – must initiate all actions to prevent the virus in accordance with Swedish law, rendering state epidemiologist Anders Tegnell a central figure in the crisis. Having an expert agency almost completely in control of the country's COVID-19 response without the involvement of politicians set Sweden apart from other countries." Swedes were asked to socially distance, work from home if able, avoid unnecessary travel, and stay home if ill. Colleges and secondary schools were closed (although primary schools were open). The Swedish Scholastic Aptitude Test was canceled. Airlines canceled flights and several airports closed for a period of time. Events of >50 people were prohibited. Athletic events were canceled, concerts were canceled. Ski resorts voluntarily closed during a major holiday weekend. Cell phone data showed that Swedes by and large showed social responsibility and heeded the requests to curtain travel. Additional important factors: they changed the law so that sick pay took effect immediately instead of after a waiting period. Healthcare is of course, available to all. And, they started testing in JANUARY. March 4th, when the US was still struggling to put testing in place, they started testing "pneumonia of unknown cause". And yes - Sweden has a higher infection rate and higher death rate than its neighboring countries which did impose lockdowns. Japan's government, due to limitations placed on it after WWII, does not have the ability to order a lockdown. However, they can urge citizens to stay home. Mask wearing and a tradition of obedience to authority are also strong. The Northern island of Japan, Hokkaido, locked down TWICE. Then there's this discussing "tough lockdown measures" put in place, including closing many businesses. They also started testing passengers arriving from many countries at the airport - and making them stay in the airport, sleeping on cardboard, until their test results came backhttps://www.euronews.com/2020/04/13/japanese-cities-empty-after-government-toughens-coronavirus-measures Perhaps you should choose a different source from which to get your information, if you have been told Sweden and Japan did not impose covid measures similar to the (rather lax) lockdowns in many of our states. Please tell me how horrible all the last novel pandemics were??? Yeah i thought so. You all are willing ignorant and are not worth my time, good day.
BillsFan4 Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 (edited) 9 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: Please tell me how horrible all the last novel pandemics were??? Yeah i thought so. You all are willing ignorant and are not worth my time, good day. I thought hapless asked you some very reasonable questions and laid out a very strong, well thought out argument using facts. Just FYI, Hapless has worked in (and taught) epidemiology. Id love to see her check her credentials against yours... ? You’re calling the wrong person “ignorant”. She is by far the most knowledgeable person I know when it comes to all this stuff. Edited June 14, 2020 by BillsFan4
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 14, 2020 Author Posted June 14, 2020 11 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: Please tell me how horrible all the last novel pandemics were??? Yeah i thought so. You all are willing ignorant and are not worth my time, good day. How about you give me a civil answer to my question: what is your list of the 10 states that have "Done well"? Then we can look at stuff like their covid-19 per capita case rate and population density and so forth and decide if 1) they're actually doing well 2) they've done well because of measures taken or not, or because they have low population density so low risk of transmission etc? Or don't, not a problem to me, but it does tend to give the impression that you're more interested in calling other people "willfully ignorant" without being willing to enter into fact-based discussion. On the other hand if your premise is that anything in the "mainstream media" or on a major publically maintained website like Johns Hopkins University is untrustworthy and that only Twitter and obscure far-right websites of unknown location, ownership, and sources tell the truth, we probably can't agree on what constitutes a "fact", so discussion would be hard to achieve. 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 14, 2020 Author Posted June 14, 2020 2 hours ago, BillsFan4 said: I thought hapless asked you some very reasonable questions and laid out a very strong, well thought out argument using facts Just FYI, Hapless has worked in (and taught) epidemiology. Id love to see her check her credentials against yours... ? You’re calling the wrong person “ignorant”. She is by far the most knowledgeable person I know when it comes to all this stuff. Clarification: I've had occasion to work with epidemiologists, but I am not myself an epidemiologist. I feel strongly that people with a good science background and relevant experience (I do have that) have an obligation to try to share accurate, factual information. Part of the problem with covid-19 in America has been that we've thrown out the pandemic playbook, which said "put the best experienced epidemiologist you can find in charge, give them a team of experts including logistics, public health, infectious disease, etc - and have the politicians step back and let them communicate with a single voice". The countries that have pretty much done that, are the countries that are handling the covid-19 epidemic best and with least economic disruption. 2 1
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