Covid-19 discussion and humor thread [Was: CDC says don't touch your face to avoid Covid19...Vets to the rescue!

[ExiledInIllinois]

Why my work was throwing out unmarked masks last fall.  They were above 95%.  Which, would require a plan.  It restricts airflow... So if you're working on a ladder, or in a dangerous spot, the mask could prove to be more harm than help:

 

https://nypost.com/2020/04/24/driver-crashes-car-after-passing-out-from-wearing-n95-mask/

[Sundancer]

A disturbing trend lately is that while the NY and NJ numbers now take up a lower percentage of deaths each day, the total deaths nationwide remain steady. Other state numbers are rising steadily. 
 

Case numbers (bound to rise with more testing) also rising steadily or only level in some places. Really not a lot of signs pointing to a quick abatement of cases or deaths on the horizon especially with so many states about to reopen this week. Some local hospital data I saw shows no signs of dropping numbers. Just level. 
 

I’m not critiquing the economic decisions to reopen but it seems certain a lot more cases and deaths will follow. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

NooooOOOOooo!

 

6 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Why my work was throwing out unmarked masks last fall.  They were above 95%.  Which, would require a plan.  It restricts airflow... So if you're working on a ladder, or in a dangerous spot, the mask could prove to be more harm than help:

 

https://nypost.com/2020/04/24/driver-crashes-car-after-passing-out-from-wearing-n95-mask/

 

I just don't buy the "cause of crash" thing.  Our respiration is designed to react to CO2 buildup. 
The normal reaction would be to experience extreme shortness of breath and an overwhelming urge to rip off the mask.

 

Something else was going on there.

 

There are some things that people are doing with the masks that are poor ideas, like spraying the outside with Lysol. 

Coating the mask with chemicals may affect its filtration properties.  Bad idea, leave it alone.
 

[Cripple Creek]

Quote

A housing association representing the richest zip code in America was approved to receive a $2 million emergency coronavirus relief loan from the Small Business Administration, despite suffering no layoffs and no apparent financial impact from the coronavirus pandemic.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1192361

[ExiledInIllinois]

11 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

NooooOOOOooo!

 

 

I just don't buy the "cause of crash" thing.  Our respiration is designed to react to CO2 buildup. 
The normal reaction would be to experience extreme shortness of breath and an overwhelming urge to rip off the mask.

 

Something else was going on there.

 

There are some things that people are doing with the masks that are poor ideas, like spraying the outside with Lysol. 

Coating the mask with chemicals may affect its filtration properties.  Bad idea, leave it alone.
 

You think they are cleaning, reusing masks?  Cleaning with chemicals, it's building up?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Sundancer said:

A disturbing trend lately is that while the NY and NJ numbers now take up a lower percentage of deaths each day, the total deaths nationwide remain steady. Other state numbers are rising steadily. 
 

Case numbers (bound to rise with more testing) also rising steadily or only level in some places. Really not a lot of signs pointing to a quick abatement of cases or deaths on the horizon especially with so many states about to reopen this week. Some local hospital data I saw shows no signs of dropping numbers. Just level. 
 

I’m not critiquing the economic decisions to reopen but it seems certain a lot more cases and deaths will follow. 

 

I am, at least in the case of Georgia.  First of all, they don't have their epidemic under control.  Second of all, instead of starting with low-contact, low-risk reopenings they started with reopenings where close contact is unavoidable.  Meanwhile, advice on how to operate safely and availability of supplies like masks and gloves is extremely limited.  People don't use them correctly when they are available - While it's not Georgia, see the pic of barber I posted above.

 

Lesson from Hokkaido reopening:

https://time.com/5826918/hokkaido-coronavirus-lockdown/

 

Fundamentally they lifted the lockdown after 3 weeks, with dramatically falling case counts but without a good #testtraceisolate strategy.

3 weeks later, they had to re-impose it.

[ExiledInIllinois]

5 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1192361

Hey!  You un-American or something! Hey Pal... Take it to the Communist Board. Down the hall, second left at the pink sign.

 

?

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

You think they are cleaning, reusing masks?  Cleaning with chemicals, it's building up?

 

Some people are trying to disinfect the outside of the mask with lysol.  I'm trying to explain "no, don't do that".  You don't need to do that to reuse a mask.

 

You didn't comment on that photo of the mask-wearing barber.  Good thing he's protecting himself and his customer like that, eh?

[ExiledInIllinois]

8 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Some people are trying to disinfect the outside of the mask with lysol.  I'm trying to explain "no, don't do that".  You don't need to do that to reuse a mask.

People are really illogical.  The second that virus lands on something that isn't inside a human body... The death, road to inactivity clock is ticking.  It has half lives.... Till it is inactive.

 

Why I mentioned earlier about some ar work.  It's only us two.  We aren't positive.  Well, I hope.  But anyway.  Nobody is hacking all over stuff... Why are they still cleaning over and over again the course of a 12 hour shift.

 

Have a few masks.  It only stays on cloth for a bunch of hours... If a day.  Just let mask dry out for 24 hours, rotate every other day or so. Any virus on it will be inactive.  The clock is always ticking for the virus when it sheds outside body.  Just watch and time where people are hacking up their lungs.

Edited April 25, 2020 by ExiledInIllinois

[Hapless Bills Fan]

10 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

People are really illogical.  The second that virus lands on something that isn't inside a human body... The death, road to inactivity clock is ticking.  It has half lives.... Till it is inactive.

 

Why I mentioned earlier about some ar work.  It's only us two.  We aren't positive.  Well, I hope.  But anyway.  Nobody is hacking all over stuff... Why are they still cleaning over and over again the course of a 12 hour shift.

 

Have a few masks.  It only stays on cloth for a bunch of hours... If a day.  Just let mask dry out for 24 hours, rotate every other day or so. Any virus on it will be inactive.  The clock is always ticking for the virus when it sheds outside body.  Just watch and time where people are hacking up their lungs.

 

There's a third component which is viral titer - how much is there?  They found live virus on physician masks after 7 days.  They found virus in the Diamond Princess when cleaning after 14 days.  The reason is likely that there was an extremely high concentration of virus to start with.

 

The point is, if you're a health care worker with patients hauking in your face for 12 hr shifts, letting the mask sit for 24 hrs may not be enough (and many HCW can't do that, they get 1 mask per week if they get any, they don't have your "have a few masks" luxury).

 

If you're a normal person wearing the mask as a precaution, letting the mask sit overnight is probably more than enough, there's no need to spray disinfectant on it.

 

In any event, just treat the outside of the mask as contaminated, and wash your hands thoroughly after donning or doffing it.

[ALF]

No evidence" that recovered COVID-19 patients cannot be reinfected: WHO

 

GENEVA (Reuters) - The World Health Organization (WHO) said on Saturday that there was currently “no evidence” that people who have recovered from COVID-19 and have antibodies are protected from a second coronavirus infection.

 

In a scientific brief, the United Nations agency warned governments against issuing “immunity passports” or “risk-free certificates” to people who have been infected as their accuracy could not be guaranteed.

 

Most studies have shown that people who have recovered from infection have antibodies to the virus, the WHO said. However, some of them have very low levels of neutralizing antibodies in their blood, “suggesting that cellular immunity may also be critical for recovery”, it added.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-who/no-evidence-that-recovered-covid-19-patients-cannot-be-reinfected-who-idUSKCN2270FB

 

This may explain why some do get reinfected 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, ALF said:

No evidence" that recovered COVID-19 patients cannot be reinfected: WHO

 

GENEVA (Reuters) - The World Health Organization (WHO) said on Saturday that there was currently “no evidence” that people who have recovered from COVID-19 and have antibodies are protected from a second coronavirus infection.

 

In a scientific brief, the United Nations agency warned governments against issuing “immunity passports” or “risk-free certificates” to people who have been infected as their accuracy could not be guaranteed.

 

Most studies have shown that people who have recovered from infection have antibodies to the virus, the WHO said. However, some of them have very low levels of neutralizing antibodies in their blood, “suggesting that cellular immunity may also be critical for recovery”, it added.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-who/no-evidence-that-recovered-covid-19-patients-cannot-be-reinfected-who-idUSKCN2270FB

 

This may explain why some do get reinfected 

 

I have asked this before:

 

Does anyone have any evidence of a person being actually symptomatically reinfected?

 

What I have read as "reinfection" is a positive PCR test.  The problem with that is as the viral titer drops, there will be "false negative" tests where the virus is below detection limits.  The problem with the nasopharangeal swab technique is that it's also subject to false negatives if the swab isn't pushed deep enough.  So I think the "reinfections" to date are people who had a false negative PCR test and then later had a positive.

But I agree with WHO that issuing "immunity passports" is a very bad idea.  See posts in the Covid-19 facts thread on the relationship between prevalence, selectivity in an antibody test, and the % of people who test positive for antibodies being a "false positive".  TL;DR if the prevalence (people who have had the disease) is low - say, 3% - then a pretty good antibody test (say, 98% real-world selectivity) will make it look as though prevalence is 5%, but 40% of those who test positive will be "false positives" 

 

If the prevalence is higher (30-50%), the % of positives that are false positives falls off.

 

 

 

 

[ALF]

5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I have asked this before:

 

Does anyone have any evidence of a person being actually symptomatically reinfected?

 

What I have read as "reinfection" is a positive PCR test.  The problem with that is as the viral titer drops, there will be "false negative" tests where the virus is below detection limits.  The problem with the nasopharangeal swab technique is that it's also subject to false negatives if the swab isn't pushed deep enough.  So I think the "reinfections" to date are people who had a false negative PCR test and then later had a false positive.

 

 

 

This from S Korea

 

In other words, the new research suggests that if a patient is re-diagnosed with COVID-19 after recovering, it's unlikely he or she will be able to infect others.

 

Still, the KCDC cautioned, it's unclear how long those antibodies last. Until we have that key piece of data, the jury is still out on whether mass immunity is possible.

 

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/south-korean-studies-suggest-antibodies-protect-covid-19/story?id=70312111

[Hapless Bills Fan]

17 minutes ago, ALF said:

 

This from S Korea

 

In other words, the new research suggests that if a patient is re-diagnosed with COVID-19 after recovering, it's unlikely he or she will be able to infect others.

 

Still, the KCDC cautioned, it's unclear how long those antibodies last. Until we have that key piece of data, the jury is still out on whether mass immunity is possible.

 

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/south-korean-studies-suggest-antibodies-protect-covid-19/story?id=70312111

 

So I'm looking for the actual studies.  No joy so far but found this:

 

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/covid-19-reinfection/

 

The phenomenon of a virus lingering and continuing to be shed some time after the patient recovers is well established in other viral diseases.  Some countries have been routinely quarantining recovered covid-19 patients for 2 weeks post recovery.

Three other things to bear in mind:

1) The RT-PCR test is detecting viral RNA, not live infectious virus

2) If the amount of virus in someone's nasopharynx is near limit of detection for the test, it's easy to test negative then positive again.

3) Like any other clinical test, the RT-PCR test has false negatives and false positives.

 

What I've been reading about are small numbers of patients -100 in China, 111 in S. Korea. 

[Saxum]

2 hours ago, Cripple Creek said:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1192361

 

Quote

The $2 million loan comes as scrutiny mounts over the structure of the government's emergency program, which allowed many companies with strong cash flow to receive millions of dollars in forgivable loans while small businesses desperate for cash were shut out.

 

Your tax raise next year at work and people complain about funding of stadiums.

2 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

People are really illogical.  The second that virus lands on something that isn't inside a human body... The death, road to inactivity clock is ticking.  It has half lives.... Till it is inactive.

 

Why I mentioned earlier about some ar work.  It's only us two.  We aren't positive.  Well, I hope.  But anyway.  Nobody is hacking all over stuff... Why are they still cleaning over and over again the course of a 12 hour shift.

 

Have a few masks.  It only stays on cloth for a bunch of hours... If a day.  Just let mask dry out for 24 hours, rotate every other day or so. Any virus on it will be inactive.  The clock is always ticking for the virus when it sheds outside body.  Just watch and time where people are hacking up their lungs.

 

Each day the mask goes in a plastic bag marked with day like leftovers.  Not reuse for 3 days.

[ExiledInIllinois]

11 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Some people are trying to disinfect the outside of the mask with lysol.  I'm trying to explain "no, don't do that".  You don't need to do that to reuse a mask.

 

You didn't comment on that photo of the mask-wearing barber.  Good thing he's protecting himself and his customer like that, eh?

I missed commenting... Looks like it's not even covering his nose.  Looks to be an ill fitted mask???

[ExiledInIllinois]

Illinois Gov. extended stay @ Home order to May 30th.

 

https://www.chicagotribune.com/coronavirus/ct-corona-stay-at-home-illinois-extended-20200425-6fgetwbgczabjoyk4d3c6oheni-story.html?outputType=amp

 

“Stay-at-home for another month is really messing with me because I can’t continue to do what I continue to do on a regular basis,” Elliott said. “I look forward to seeing the faces that I’m used to seeing because I miss everybody that I volunteer with.”

 

"Despite Pritzker’s repeated encouragement to be “all in” on the order, Illinois enters this next phase of life under the virus as a truly bifurcated state, a population split into those who are fighting bankruptcy and those fighting boredom. With each passing day, the two sides drift further apart as they deal with their own very real struggles."

 

https://www.chicagotribune.com/coronavirus/ct-coronavirus-what-is-shelter-in-place-20200320-rvyzf7h24ff5tfnvve5kz6g6b4-story.html

 

 

"Face coverings required:

Most people older than 2 will be required to wear a face covering in public anytime they can’t maintain 6 feet of distance from others, including at indoor places such as stores.

Businesses will have to require that all employees and customers wear face coverings, and “essential” businesses must provide them to all employees who can’t maintain proper social distance."

 

https://www.illinoispolicy.org/what-you-need-to-know-about-coronavirus-in-illinois/

 

"...Reopening some state parks to hiking, fishing and boating with no more than two people per boat..."

 

That will go over reall well in "The Playpen" off of Chicago Harbor:

 

 

Some real social distancing will have to be curtailed here:

The beer funnel and stripper pole will have to go way of the dodo! LoL..

 

Good thing The-19 hates UV rays!

Edited April 26, 2020 by ExiledInIllinois

[Nelius]

Marshawn riding around in a golf cart handing out Beastmode masks. Love it.

[Nelius]

17 hours ago, Sundancer said:

A disturbing trend lately is that while the NY and NJ numbers now take up a lower percentage of deaths each day, the total deaths nationwide remain steady. Other state numbers are rising steadily.  

 

Yeah it hasn't peaked yet in a lot of places, and beyond that this virus's stabilization rate is pretty terrifying. It doesn't seem to really go away. Just look at Iran. It's been 1000+ new cases, 100+ dead, every day since early March. Like clockwork. Maybe they've given up on providing accurate data but it's the same for Switzerland, Netherlands and some other countries that seem alright but are nowhere near over the hump with this. So imagine if we as a country stabilize at say 1500-2000 deaths. Every single day, without end. May never really blow up and be the apocalypse, but holy hell.

 

To add, this info is from countries that have fiercely locked down, more so than us in all cases, so rates are likely depressed just due to social isolation. This thing is a sticky little monster. I'm definitely not hitting the mall on May 1st even if some folks say we're open.

Edited April 26, 2020 by Nelius

[Hapless Bills Fan]

35 minutes ago, Nelius said:

Marshawn riding around in a golf cart handing out Beastmode masks. Love it.

 

I love it!  Masks given out with the cred of a celebrity behind wearing them. 

 

The more I see of that guy post-career, the more respect I have for him.