In looking at safety depth -- Karl Joseph is a FA

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, warrior9 said:

Must have missed Poyer being dragged 15 yards and Milano / Neal missing tackles on Watson. 

 

Even great players miss some plays.  Beane made the point that we won't be crucifying players who had a good season but a meh Houston game, nor will we be over-hyping players who had a great playoff game but meh season.  Watson is a Star.   It's not like we've never seen our QB truck some good (or great) players and make them look silly.

 

I think Poyer is better than "good" and perhaps more importantly, seems able to do the "mind meld" with Hyde most of the time which we can't assume everyone will.

Probably Poyer is going to want to be paid as a star.   I think Beane probably wants to pay him as "very good player" and can possibly be negotiated up to "very very good player" or "very good player with a bouquet of guaranteed $$".  Then Poyer is going to have to make a decision: does he play through this season and 'bet on himself' having a strong year, no injuries, and a great market for a big contract (but how much guaranteed money)?  Or does he see value in putting more money in his pocket this season (if that's offered) and perhaps more guaranteed $$ but less overall contract?

 

I have no idea what it must be like to be a player and look at those big numbers and also truly believe in yourself and feel "I'll go there, I'll tear it up and see every penny" - but yet be cool and calculating enough to say "OK, now wait, how much of that is fully guaranteed? What's this team's cap situation?  What's their overall coach and GM situation?"

 

For example, look at Lamarcus Joyner who signed a 4 year, $42M contract with the Raiders last March.  That sounds MARVELOUS.  But looking at the fine print, $16.7M of that is fully guaranteed.  Another $4.6M salary will guarantee this month.  2021 and 2022, he's due $10M per year, no guarantees.  That positions him nicely to be a cap casualty especially if there were to be a coaching change on D.

 

So is that really a 4 year, $42M contract, or is that a $21.3M contract with 2 years of team options?  If Poyer were offered a bonus and a healthy salary bump this year on a 3 year contract for $22-24M with guarantees, might he actually come out ahead over waiting for a bigger overall contract with big money (but no guarantees) in the last couple years?

 

That's the part that must be a challenge to sort.

 

#FirstWorldProblems

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

12 hours ago, JoPoy88 said:

According to his stats though, yeah, he is kinda a star at his position. Yes we’ve all seen the blooper reel of poyer missing a couple tackles spectacularly but overall he has been very, very good. If Poyer’s not a “star” who is responsible for the defensive turnaround since the rex days? 

 

Not Poyer. 

[Niagara Dude]

1 hour ago, Niagara Dude said:

I think he could an option,  i don't believe he needs to give Poyer crazy money because he is an average to good safety who was a seventh round pick.    I like the job he has done but would not pay him more than 4-5 million a season.

 

I guess he is letting her to the talking  ,  for some reason that suit looks a little small on her.  LMAO

 

[I'm sorry, but stuff that might get flagged by Google Ads as adult content can't be allowed here ☹️ ]

Yes i would agree,  not nude but close to it .  

13 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

So, what's your opinion on Karl Joseph?  Should Beane go after him?

So how about you,  how much would you be willing to pay Poyer or would you look to upgrade the position if he wants too much?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

25 minutes ago, Niagara Dude said:

So how about you,  how much would you be willing to pay Poyer or would you look to upgrade the position if he wants too much?

 

See above.  We also have him for a year; how hard and where the Bills look will depend upon what they think of rookie Jaquon Johnson's potential. 

 

We should be looking to upgrade in any event to improve our Nickel.

 

One of Poyer's real strengths for the Bills has been his willingness and ability to play run defense.  He does a lot of things well - he keeps after the ball, he takes good angles, he's physical.  He tends to get trucked after contact more than one would like, and I'm not sure what the issue is or if it can be improved.

 

But truthfully, when you talk about a safety's strength in run D, that probably highlights a need to upgrade at LB or on DL as much or more than at safety.

 

 

[warrior9]

3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Even great players miss some plays.  Beane made the point that we won't be crucifying players who had a good season but a meh Houston game, nor will we be over-hyping players who had a great playoff game but meh season.  Watson is a Star.   It's not like we've never seen our QB truck some good (or great) players and make them look silly.

 

I think Poyer is better than "good" and perhaps more importantly, seems able to do the "mind meld" with Hyde most of the time which we can't assume everyone will.

Probably Poyer is going to want to be paid as a star.   I think Beane probably wants to pay him as "very good player" and can possibly be negotiated up to "very very good player" or "very good player with a bouquet of guaranteed $$".  Then Poyer is going to have to make a decision: does he play through this season and 'bet on himself' having a strong year, no injuries, and a great market for a big contract (but how much guaranteed money)?  Or does he see value in putting more money in his pocket this season (if that's offered) and perhaps more guaranteed $$ but less overall contract?

 

I have no idea what it must be like to be a player and look at those big numbers and also truly believe in yourself and feel "I'll go there, I'll tear it up and see every penny" - but yet be cool and calculating enough to say "OK, now wait, how much of that is fully guaranteed? What's this team's cap situation?  What's their overall coach and GM situation?"

 

For example, look at Lamarcus Joyner who signed a 4 year, $42M contract with the Raiders last March.  That sounds MARVELOUS.  But looking at the fine print, $16.7M of that is fully guaranteed.  Another $4.6M salary will guarantee this month.  2021 and 2022, he's due $10M per year, no guarantees.  That positions him nicely to be a cap casualty especially if there were to be a coaching change on D.

 

So is that really a 4 year, $42M contract, or is that a $21.3M contract with 2 years of team options?  If Poyer were offered a bonus and a healthy salary bump this year on a 3 year contract for $22-24M with guarantees, might he actually come out ahead over waiting for a bigger overall contract with big money (but no guarantees) in the last couple years?

 

That's the part that must be a challenge to sort.

 

#FirstWorldProblems

 

 

I know, I wasn't saying that to castrate Poyer by any stretch. I just think that we can get better with depth here. If we can spell, maybe Poyer is more healthy and doesn't get dragged? Who knows. I don't think any one should be judged on that game. 

[blacklabel]

I could be wrong but haven't injuries caused him a slow start to his career?

 

I'm still of the mind that they're gonna come out of this draft with Kyle Dugger. 

[NewEra]

I loved him coming out of WV but I was worried that he’d always be hurt.  I was right to be worried.  He was always hurt.  I wouldn’t pay him much because he’s probably going to get hurt.

 

45 minutes ago, blacklabel said:

I could be wrong but haven't injuries caused him a slow start to his career?

 

I'm still of the mind that they're gonna come out of this draft with Kyle Dugger. 

Always hurt 

[warrior9]

15 hours ago, NewEra said:

I loved him coming out of WV but I was worried that he’d always be hurt.  I was right to be worried.  He was always hurt.  I wouldn’t pay him much because he’s probably going to get hurt.

 

Always hurt 

Was he always hurt?

[blacklabel]

3 hours ago, warrior9 said:

Was he always hurt?

 

Took a look at his history....

2014 - Freshman - Redshirt

2015 - RS Freshman - Played in 10 of 14 games, 4 INTs, 2 fumble recoveries (FRs), 43 tackles

2016 - RS Sophomore - One game, then medical redshirt

2017 - RS Sophomore - Played in 10 of 14 games, began returning punts (9.9 yards per return, one TD), 1 INT, 2 FFs, 1 FR, 87 tackles

2018 - RS Junior - Played in all 14 games, returned two punts for TDs (in the same game), 3 INTs, 2 FFs, 3 FRs, 76 tackles, named First Team All-South Atlantic Conference both as a DB and punt returner.

2019 - RS Senior - Played in 7 of 14 games, despite this, was named best defensive player in DII (Cliff Harris Award), DII First Team All-American, among other accolades. Two punt return TDs (again in the same game), 3 INTs w/one a pick-six (3 total TDs on the season), Lenoir-Rhyne's all-time leader in punt return yards, 31 tackles. 

 

Overall he missed 28 games through his career (not counting the RS Freshman year). All I know is, Bills have done more homework on him than any other team and McDermott has to be giddy about this kid's versatility. He's lined up everywhere on defense except interior DL, some think his best position could be LB as he has the size (6'2" 220, about the same as Milano, who's 6' even, I believe) but I can see McDermott utilizing him as a chess piece he can put all over the field and in multiple packages. Definitely one to keep an eye on. 

Edited March 6, 2020 by blacklabel

[warrior9]

1 hour ago, blacklabel said:

 

Took a look at his history....

2014 - Freshman - Redshirt

2015 - RS Freshman - Played in 10 of 14 games, 4 INTs, 2 fumble recoveries (FRs), 43 tackles

2016 - RS Sophomore - One game, then medical redshirt

2017 - RS Sophomore - Played in 10 of 14 games, began returning punts (9.9 yards per return, one TD), 1 INT, 2 FFs, 1 FR, 87 tackles

2018 - RS Junior - Played in all 14 games, returned two punts for TDs (in the same game), 3 INTs, 2 FFs, 3 FRs, 76 tackles, named First Team All-South Atlantic Conference both as a DB and punt returner.

2019 - RS Senior - Played in 7 of 14 games, despite this, was named best defensive player in DII (Cliff Harris Award), DII First Team All-American, among other accolades. Two punt return TDs (again in the same game), 3 INTs w/one a pick-six (3 total TDs on the season), Lenoir-Rhyne's all-time leader in punt return yards, 31 tackles. 

 

Overall he missed 28 games through his career (not counting the RS Freshman year). All I know is, Bills have done more homework on him than any other team and McDermott has to be giddy about this kid's versatility. He's lined up everywhere on defense except interior DL, some think his best position could be LB as he has the size (6'2" 220, about the same as Milano, who's 6' even, I believe) but I can see McDermott utilizing him as a chess piece he can put all over the field and in multiple packages. Definitely one to keep an eye on. 

Oh, I'm aware, it was more of a joke with the NewEra... he said he was always hurt a few times in his post.

 

Edit: the "he was always hurt" comments were about Joseph, not Dugger

Edited March 6, 2020 by warrior9