thebandit27 Posted March 4, 2020 Posted March 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, MJS said: You keep repeating that Will linebackers are easily replaceable but haven't shown that to be the case whatsoever. You mean except for citing the fact that every year there are picks like Jayon Brown, DeVondre Campbell, Milano, Jerome Baker, Mack Wilson, Joe Schoebert, Blake Martinez, Cory Littleton, etc that come in and do the job? Like I said about 6 responses ago?
BillsFan17 Posted March 4, 2020 Posted March 4, 2020 Just now, Reed83HOF said: I'm confused - is PFF (the place that said Duck Hodges is betetr than Allen and Tre White isn't a top 100 player and 15th best CB) good again? Elaborate on your rankings and gauging of Milano. Your snap to snap breakdowns, your understanding of his assignments. I'll wait.
thebandit27 Posted March 4, 2020 Posted March 4, 2020 1 minute ago, BillsFan17 said: No it doesnt That’s a completion percentage—PFF said passer rating.
MJS Posted March 4, 2020 Posted March 4, 2020 Just now, nucci said: I don't think many players are going to sign until new CBA gets done....Revenues and cap most likely increasing so players will wait to get more money Hmm, that might be the prudent thing to do, but getting a huge bonus now is hard to pass up. You could take a devastating hit to the knee and never recover. So I think players will sign contracts before the new CBA.
thebandit27 Posted March 4, 2020 Posted March 4, 2020 Just now, BillsFan17 said: Elaborate on your rankings and gauging of Milano. Your snap to snap breakdowns, your understanding of his assignments. I'll wait. How deep do you want to take this? Cuz I can talk the game just fine thanks.
MJS Posted March 4, 2020 Posted March 4, 2020 1 minute ago, thebandit27 said: You mean except for citing the fact that every year there are picks like Jayon Brown, DeVondre Campbell, Milano, Jerome Baker, Mack Wilson, Joe Schoebert, Blake Martinez, Cory Littleton, etc that come in and do the job? Like I said about 6 responses ago? And failing to show all of the FAILED picks at linebacker even with high picks in the draft every year? Yeah, I noticed.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 4, 2020 Posted March 4, 2020 33 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: So as long as you keep repeating an opinion with zero context it becomes valid? Nice work. Dude, no offense, but in stating that Will linebackers who come in and contribute their first year are common and are easily replaceable, aren't you doing the same? I think you gave like 3 or 4 examples, but the fact is an average of 9 LB have been drafted in the 5th round the past 3 years, so 3 or 4 out of 26 would be like a 10-15% success rate. (you named like 7 names, but only 3 or 4 of them started immediately, and some of them started on poor defenses where they were the best of a sorry lot)
thebandit27 Posted March 4, 2020 Posted March 4, 2020 Just now, MJS said: And failing to show all of the FAILED picks at linebacker even with high picks in the draft every year? Yeah, I noticed. Oh, so you pay attention to the data but bring zero to the discussion? That’s, well, odd...and ineffective. 1
H2o Posted March 4, 2020 Posted March 4, 2020 19 minutes ago, HappyDays said: I do recall him missing his share of tackles last year, but before the leg injury if I remember correctly tackling was a strength of his. He didn't look like the same player to me last year. I'm hoping an extra offseason of recovery will be enough. This is a big year for him. If he shows out he'll be looking at a huge extension. *Pops the Brian Cushing nutritional pack then prays* Milano: "Dear God, please give me another shot at Deshaun Watson, please...."
Reed83HOF Posted March 4, 2020 Posted March 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said: Elaborate on your rankings and gauging of Milano. Your snap to snap breakdowns, your understanding of his assignments. I'll wait. you're exhasuting...
BillsFan17 Posted March 4, 2020 Posted March 4, 2020 Just now, Reed83HOF said: you're exhasuting... Still waiting. Take your time, you have the knowledge to bring to the table I'm sure of it. 4 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: You mean except for citing the fact that every year there are picks like Jayon Brown, DeVondre Campbell, Milano, Jerome Baker, Mack Wilson, Joe Schoebert, Blake Martinez, Cory Littleton, etc that come in and do the job? Like I said about 6 responses ago? Comparing those guys to Milano... really? So hey guys dont draft a QB in the first you can grab a Brady in the sixth, it's just that easy.
MJS Posted March 4, 2020 Posted March 4, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: Oh, so you pay attention to the data but bring zero to the discussion? That’s, well, odd...and ineffective. What's that have to do with my comment? Have you considered all the failed LB draft picks or not? You say it's easy to draft them, so you must have looked at how many LB's turned out to be busts, right? EDIT: There were 26 linebackers drafted in 2019. Yes, a few of them turned out to be great, but the majority will probably amount to nothing. Edited March 4, 2020 by MJS
thebandit27 Posted March 4, 2020 Posted March 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Dude, no offense, but in stating that Will linebackers who come in and contribute their first year are common and are easily replaceable, aren't you doing the same? I think you gave like 3 or 4 examples, but the fact is an average of 9 LB have been drafted in the 5th round the past 3 years, so 3 or 4 out of 26 would be like a 10-15% success rate. That’s only one avenue of filling a need, and yes, you obviously need to be able to identify those players in the scouting process. If you look to FA, teams consistently find producers like Jon Bostic, Anthony Hitchens, etc. without paying huge money. The overarching point here is that paying Milano the suggested sum would be folly since equal production is often found fairly easily. I think I’ll let that be my final thought in this particular issue since I appear to be ruffling some feathers (not yours per se). 5 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said: Still waiting. Take your time, you have the knowledge to bring to the table I'm sure of it. Comparing those guys to Milano... really? So hey guys dont draft a QB in the first you can grab a Brady in the sixth, it's just that easy. Wow.
dpberr Posted March 4, 2020 Posted March 4, 2020 I'm ok with Milano and White extensions. Not ok with the Dawkins extension. I think Milano is a fine LB, with room for more. With corporate knowledge and experience in a consistent system, LBs play even faster, which makes them even faster on the field. That's really the core principle in Pittsburgh - it's not that they draft blue chip talent all the time, it's that their players keep learning in the same system year after year, and don't have to think as much in the game. Dawkins is a good LT. I don't know, if as a team, you extend the good LT at that price point. Do you really foresee him becoming a great LT?
atlbillsfan1975 Posted March 4, 2020 Posted March 4, 2020 I’m fine with the Tre and Dion numbers. Think Dion might be a little low. The Milano numbers just rub me the wrong way. Not saying it doesn’t happen but $12.5 mil is steep. Not to mention how much is Edmunds going to get? $14-15 mil? That’s a good bit of cap locked up in linebacker. I also think a smaller linebacker good in coverage and average in run stopping could be easier to find in the draft in rounds 3-5. Not hating on Milano, but looking at the big picture of who needs to stay. Milano also doesn’t strike me as one of the outstanding leaders for the defense. Milano might be the silent leader type, interested to see if he steps up this year with Alexander gone.
BillsFan17 Posted March 4, 2020 Posted March 4, 2020 5 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: That’s only one avenue of filling a need, and yes, you obviously need to be able to identify those players in the scouting process. If you look to FA, teams consistently find producers like Jon Bostic, Anthony Hitchens, etc. without paying huge money. The overarching point here is that paying Milano the suggested sum would be folly since equal production is often found fairly easily. I think I’ll let that be my final thought in this particular issue since I appear to be ruffling some feathers (not yours per se). Wow. No, maybe we can undo the Oliver pick because once upon a time we drafted a top tier DT in the fifth. Why waist a high pick on a DT, when you can just find them in the fifth. Your logic needs to be put thru to the front office. Especially when you use a handful of examples of players who arent as good as Milano to make your case for how replaceable he is.
thebandit27 Posted March 4, 2020 Posted March 4, 2020 1 minute ago, BillsFan17 said: No, maybe we can undo the Oliver pick because once upon a time we drafted a top tier DT in the fifth. Why waist a high pick on a DT, when you can just find them in the fifth. Your logic needs to be put thru to the front office. Especially when you use a handful of examples of players who arent as good as Milano to make your case for how replaceable he is. How many straw men can you stack? First the absurd Brady comment, now a ridiculous Kyle Williams reference? And to top it off a nebulous “those guys aren’t as good” generalization! Why don’t you compare the tackle stats, passer rating in coverage and get back to me on that. While you’re at it, maybe you can accurately summarize my opinion on re-signing Milano? Because you seem confused about it. You know what? Don’t bother, as I really should just leave this alone. 2 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 4, 2020 Posted March 4, 2020 23 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: You mean except for citing the fact that every year there are picks like Jayon Brown, DeVondre Campbell, Milano, Jerome Baker, Mack Wilson, Joe Schoebert, Blake Martinez, Cory Littleton, etc that come in and do the job? Like I said about 6 responses ago? The points are: 1) of those 8 names, I believe 4 became starters immediately. At least 1 guy on that list didn't start consistently until his 3rd season. And some of them started on pretty poor D's. 2) in that time period, 26 LB were drafted in the 5th. So 4/26 would be a 15% chance of replacing Milano, and that would be accepting that the other 3 actually have his skill set. If you want to argue for 8, 30% - 1 in 3 shot, again, arguing that the other 7 actually do have his skill set and actually did come in and contribute immediately at the same level (debateable)
NoSaint Posted March 4, 2020 Posted March 4, 2020 12 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said: the yearly figure is smaller if it gets done early. Yea but that 4th year cost shoots way up usually. you’ll save a little bit by moving risk from player to team but not anything substantial unless the guy is broke and high risk.
HappyDays Posted March 4, 2020 Posted March 4, 2020 46 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: If the Bills wait to see if Milano shows out or not, he won't be looking at an extension - he'll be a FA I'll be surprised if they extend him this offseason. Thinking about players like Sammy Watkins and Shaq Lawson this regime's MO is not to extend players early. They will wait until Milano proves he is worth it. Based on last year I don't think he's met that standard just yet. They use contract years to drive players to be their best. And I tend to agree with Bandit that his role is not particularly difficult to replace if it comes to that.
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