Over 29 years of fanhood Posted March 2, 2020 Posted March 2, 2020 10 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said: This has nothing to do with Sammy Watkins and everything to do with the depth of the position in the class. but that was one of the exact knocks right? Trading up for Watkins was grilled because they Gave up collateral to move up in a draft with tons of WR depth. Evans, OBJ, Devante Adams, Landry, Allen Robinson, Cooks were all drafted after Sammy. On top of that it just kept getting worse in retrospect. but that team was trying to sell that it was just one wr away and needed a bold move, Ralph had just passed. franchise was in disarray 2
Mickey Posted March 2, 2020 Posted March 2, 2020 5 hours ago, Putin said: I believe both will be gone before our pick at 22 You just gotta kill my dreams don't ya? 4 hours ago, TigerJ said: Pretty much a certainty. So, the fact that they invested time to talk to them suggests the notion of a trade up is at least on the table. I don't personally think that's going to happen, but the Bills seem to have not ruled it out. I suppose it could be a smoke screen, but I don't think the Bills have done a lot of that since Buddy Nix was telling anybody who listened that Cordy Glenn was a guard. Due diligence is all it is. They would look pretty stupid if they didn't look at these guys closely if somehow one of them dropped within striking distance, say 16 or 17-ish and they had to improvise at the last minute because they hadn't done their homework.
HappyDays Posted March 2, 2020 Posted March 2, 2020 1 hour ago, BillsFan17 said: Look at last year as an example Deebo Samuel, AJ Brown, DK Metcalf, etc... To assume if you dont get one of the top three that you automatically can't find a good player is asinine. Out of those 3 only AJ Brown has shown the potential to be a true #1 IMO. And he wouldn't be available at our pick in the 2nd this year. If we want as close to a sure #1 WR as we can get we'll have to trade up. I suppose if we trade down and take a player like Mims or Claypool I could get behind it, and maybe we'll hit on that lottery pick. I would just rather be sure.
Sherlock Holmes Posted March 2, 2020 Posted March 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Putin said: So who is the BEST WR in this draft ?? Or is this like the year when we drafted J Allen when there were 4 QB ‘s and we had no idea which one would go 1st , 2nd, or even 3rd & 4th That's the scenario I think plays out... that's why you go after a proven commodity. Is Jeudy the best because a few months ago eveybody acted like it... or is he not even the best receiver on his team (Ruggs III)? Is it Lamb? Is it Shinault? Is it somebody else?
Motorin' Posted March 2, 2020 Posted March 2, 2020 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Mickey said: You just gotta kill my dreams don't ya? Due diligence is all it is. They would look pretty stupid if they didn't look at these guys closely if somehow one of them dropped within striking distance, say 16 or 17-ish and they had to improvise at the last minute because they hadn't done their homework. I also think they want to spend time with the #1 & #2 wr in the draft to compare to the guys they have at #3, #4 & #5. Is there really that much of a gap between these two and say Justin Jefferson? Edited March 2, 2020 by Motorin'
GunnerBill Posted March 2, 2020 Posted March 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said: He had one of the worst QB’s throwing to him. He was wide open on so many plays, the pass was off its mark or the QB didn’t even see him. He made so many circus catches this year, I really don’t think his hands will be a issue. The only issue he has is route running but that is the one trait that is easily coached up. Jalen Reagor could easily be one of the best WR’s from this draft I like Reagor. I keep flipping him and Aiyuk as my #5 WR. But the drops are a legit concern. Is it hands? Is it concentration? Not sure. But even allowing for the QB issues he drops too many balls. 9 minutes ago, Sherlock Holmes said: That's the scenario I think plays out... that's why you go after a proven commodity. Is Jeudy the best because a few months ago eveybody acted like it... or is he not even the best receiver on his team (Ruggs III)? Is it Lamb? Is it Shinault? Is it somebody else? It is definitely not Shenault. It is Jeudy #1; Lamb #2; Ruggs #3 for me. But I would be delighted with any of those guys. 1 hour ago, BillsFan17 said: It's a mismanagement of assets. The depth of the class allows you to wait. Look at last year as an example Deebo Samuel, AJ Brown, DK Metcalf, etc... To assume if you dont get one of the top three that you automatically can't find a good player is asinine. Last year was a very different WR class. Last year was like this year's class but without the 3 elite level prospects. If the Bills don't move up for one of the top 3 THEN it is like last year where they shouldn't force a WR pick at #22 because the difference between the guy they get there and the guy they can maybe still get in the 2nd is not that great. But the difference between the top 3 and the rest this year? That is very real. 5 1
Sherlock Holmes Posted March 2, 2020 Posted March 2, 2020 3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I like Reagor. I keep flipping him and Aiyuk as my #5 WR. But the drops are a legit concern. Is it hands? Is it concentration? Not sure. But even allowing for the QB issues he drops too many balls. It is definitely not Shenault. It is Jeudy #1; Lamb #2; Ruggs #3 for me. But I would be delighted with any of those guys. I have them in the same order... question is Kupp or Jeudy? Kupp or either Lamb or Ruggs III? Do you see these guys as being better than what Kupp brings?
GunnerBill Posted March 2, 2020 Posted March 2, 2020 7 minutes ago, Motorin' said: I also think they want to spend time with the #1 & #2 wr in the draft to compare to the guys they have at #3, #4 & #5. Is there really that much of a gap between these two and say Justin Jefferson? Yes. Next question. Just now, Sherlock Holmes said: I have them in the same order... question is Kupp or Jeudy? Kupp or either Lamb or Ruggs III? Do you see these guys as being better than what Kupp brings? Yes. Without question. 1 1
ExWNYer Posted March 2, 2020 Posted March 2, 2020 23 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I like Reagor. I keep flipping him and Aiyuk as my #5 WR. But the drops are a legit concern. Is it hands? Is it concentration? Not sure. But even allowing for the QB issues he drops too many balls. It is definitely not Shenault. It is Jeudy #1; Lamb #2; Ruggs #3 for me. But I would be delighted with any of those guys. Last year was a very different WR class. Last year was like this year's class but without the 3 elite level prospects. If the Bills don't move up for one of the top 3 THEN it is like last year where they shouldn't force a WR pick at #22 because the difference between the guy they get there and the guy they can maybe still get in the 2nd is not that great. But the difference between the top 3 and the rest this year? That is very real. This is my feeling 100%. If it's not one of those three WRs, I'd prefer that they wait until the 2nd or even 3rd. Barring a blockbuster trade up, there is next to no chance that they'll get a shot at either Jeudy or Lamb. Ruggs is the most realistic of the three, IMO, and that might even take a slight move up as the Eagles sit just ahead of the Bills at 21. If they can get one of the few top Edge prospects in Round 1, that would be my preference. Free agency will flesh out a lot of the scenarios but it is shaping up to be a very intriguing off season.
mathja Posted March 2, 2020 Posted March 2, 2020 A lot of people bring up the Sammy Watkins trade as evidence of a trade up being a disaster. I do seem to remember that one of the biggest criticisms of that deal was that the bills traded major Draft capital for a receiver when they didn’t even have a franchise quarterback. Timing was way off, many said. Obviously Sammy wasn’t as good as we had hoped, but he had his moments and who knows how much he suffered by having a below average quarterback. So, if you believe in Josh Allen, Isn’t the timing different this time around? Would it be more acceptable to give up an extra pic to move up if you think one of those top two or three guys is a perennial pro bowler that could really help Josh Allen become a top-flight quarterback?
BillsFan17 Posted March 2, 2020 Posted March 2, 2020 44 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I like Reagor. I keep flipping him and Aiyuk as my #5 WR. But the drops are a legit concern. Is it hands? Is it concentration? Not sure. But even allowing for the QB issues he drops too many balls. It is definitely not Shenault. It is Jeudy #1; Lamb #2; Ruggs #3 for me. But I would be delighted with any of those guys. Last year was a very different WR class. Last year was like this year's class but without the 3 elite level prospects. If the Bills don't move up for one of the top 3 THEN it is like last year where they shouldn't force a WR pick at #22 because the difference between the guy they get there and the guy they can maybe still get in the 2nd is not that great. But the difference between the top 3 and the rest this year? That is very real. Again, we hear this all the time. And yet, we still see guys going later that pan out better. I love the top three, and if one of them slide, awesome. If not, by all means wait and you can absolutely expect guys later in the class to have an impact. Just because those guy are that good, doesn't take away from the immense talent this class has to offer. Moreover, to just blindly assume it's not at all possible for any of those guys to flop/bust is also extremely irrational. The most high profile of specs have flopped in the past. Again, I would love to get my hands on one of them, but not at the cost of giving up assets to go get one. Not a chance with the depth of the class.
YoloinOhio Posted March 2, 2020 Author Posted March 2, 2020 3 minutes ago, mathja said: A lot of people bring up the Sammy Watkins trade as evidence of a trade up being a disaster. I do seem to remember that one of the biggest criticisms of that deal was that the bills traded major Draft capital for a receiver when they didn’t even have a franchise quarterback. Timing was way off, many said. Obviously Sammy wasn’t as good as we had hoped, but he had his moments and who knows how much he suffered by having a below average quarterback. So, if you believe in Josh Allen, Isn’t the timing different this time around? Would it be more acceptable to give up an extra pic to move up if you think one of those top two or three guys is a perennial pro bowler that could really help Josh Allen become a top-flight quarterback? Yes. Sammy Watkins was worthy of the 4th overall pick imo. The Bills gave up too much to get him given their circumstances. Both can be true. Jmo 3
BillsFan17 Posted March 3, 2020 Posted March 3, 2020 58 minutes ago, HappyDays said: Out of those 3 only AJ Brown has shown the potential to be a true #1 IMO. And he wouldn't be available at our pick in the 2nd this year. If we want as close to a sure #1 WR as we can get we'll have to trade up. I suppose if we trade down and take a player like Mims or Claypool I could get behind it, and maybe we'll hit on that lottery pick. I would just rather be sure. So you wouldnt take Deebo or DK on this team right now? What? Acting like those guys weren't very productive and played extremely well is just shortsighted to fit your narrative. You could also add McLaurin to that conversation along with Slayton. 2017- Corey Davis, John Ross, Mike Williams or Ju-Ju in the second or Kupp in the third? 2016- Corey Coleman, Fuller, Doctson, Treadwell or Michael Thomas/Tyler Boyd in the second There are plenty of drafts where the higher touted specs didnt work out as well as guys taken after them. Assuming because a guy is rated higher will always pan out, or let alone be that much superior when the field is so stacked...
Playoffs? Posted March 3, 2020 Posted March 3, 2020 5 hours ago, Uncle Joe said: Yolo, please tell me it was called back for the crackback block. Ha! Sad that this was my first thought too! 1
GunnerBill Posted March 3, 2020 Posted March 3, 2020 13 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said: Again, we hear this all the time. And yet, we still see guys going later that pan out better. I love the top three, and if one of them slide, awesome. If not, by all means wait and you can absolutely expect guys later in the class to have an impact. Just because those guy are that good, doesn't take away from the immense talent this class has to offer. Moreover, to just blindly assume it's not at all possible for any of those guys to flop/bust is also extremely irrational. The most high profile of specs have flopped in the past. Again, I would love to get my hands on one of them, but not at the cost of giving up assets to go get one. Not a chance with the depth of the class. Of course anyone can bust. But the chances of one of those top 3 busting is significantly less than the chance of one of the next clump of 7 or 8 2nd round types busting. That is kind of the point. You would be paying with assets to reduce the bust risk. 5
Playoffs? Posted March 3, 2020 Posted March 3, 2020 I don’t care what we have to do... I just want our WR corps to be so solid that Smoke is our clear #2. Would be very similar to the Moulds/Price combo.. and damn fun to watch! 1
Buffalo Junction Posted March 3, 2020 Posted March 3, 2020 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: I like Reagor. I keep flipping him and Aiyuk as my #5 WR. But the drops are a legit concern. Is it hands? Is it concentration? Not sure. But even allowing for the QB issues he drops too many balls. Concentration for the most part. There are times where he has the ball knocked out by stronger and/ longer DBs. Generally though his drops are concentration lapses. I think he got frustrated at times and lost his focus somewhat. If you watch full game tapes you can see him visibly frustrated with the QB play. Then you see him a few plays later try to turn upfield early or something else.
GunnerBill Posted March 3, 2020 Posted March 3, 2020 Just now, Buffalo Junction said: Concentration for the most part. There are times where he has the ball knocked out by stronger and/ longer DBs. Generally though his drops are concentration lapses. I think he got frustrated at times and lost his focus somewhat. If you watch full game tapes you can see him visibly frustrated with the QB play. Then you see him a few plays later try to turn upfield early or something else. I have watched the full game tape. I am not as forgiving as you are. I think it is a legit concern and I am not willing to wave it away and say "ah he was fed up with bad Quarterbacking." Catch the damn ball.
Mr. WEO Posted March 3, 2020 Posted March 3, 2020 Why are they bothering with those 2? After all: “I’m not one that subscribes to a ‘number one receiver’,” Beane told reporters during the NFL Combine.
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